The ULTIMATE expression of ignorance -- "Pics or it didn't happen"

We didn't confirm that the earth was flat until we sailed around it ?

Theres only on way we are going to confirm once and for all and that is by going out there and finding out..

I'm sure theres at the very least a planet full of cows or a sea planet full of salmon and it just as likely that there is a planet just as advanced as ours asking themselves the same things...

think about this.... none of you would have ever spoken in real life ( well it would be a very remote chance) but the fact that we have the internet means we can do this right? before that individually we wouldn't have known that the other existed... use the same principle with aliens .... just because we can't prove the other exists ...doesn't mean they don't. theres could be someone with pink hair blue eyes with freckles reading this but i cant prove it or disprove.

Originally posted by Thurisaz
reply to post by kykweer

 

yes that is a very good point you raise!

what about the boy who cried wolf?

hmmm

I have to go start a thread about how the wolves in the original story were really reptilian aliens and they used mind control on the whole town.

I can connect it to the Twilight book/movie saga somehow, I'm sure.

Hope no one asks for pics, I might have to use some movie stills.

So now... Asking for evidence of someone's claim is considered ignorant on ATS?

Seems legit.

I better screenshot this thread.. otherwise people on other sites will respond to me.. "Pics or it didn't happen".

Originally posted by ell8u
We didn't confirm that the earth was flat until we sailed around it ?

That's a bit of a myth. Only the least-educated people thought the Earth was flat. I suppose it was 100% confirmed to be spherical by sailing around it, but Greek astronomers proved mathematically that the Earth was round in 300 BC. In 240 BC, the mathematician Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the round Earth by measuring shadows at different locations, and was very close to the actual size.

After that most learned people understood that the Earth was round. The scientists of the world certainly did; European, Middle Eastern and Indian scientists definitely knew the Earth was round and not flat prior to European ships sailing around it. Chinese scientists took a while to understand the Spherical Earth.

think about this.... none of you would have ever spoken in real life ( well it would be a very remote chance) but the fact that we have the internet means we can do this right? before that individually we wouldn't have known that the other existed... use the same principle with aliens .... just because we can't prove the other exists ...doesn't mean they don't. theres could be someone with pink hair blue eyes with freckles reading this but i cant prove it or disprove.

Again, this is a myth to think that most people don't think alien life is out there. Most educated people believe in alien life. Almost ALL scientists think intelligent life almost certainly exists elsewhere in the universe. You would be very hard-pressed to find a scientist today who thinks there is NO intelligent life beyond the Earth.

HOWEVER, as to whether or not that alien life is visiting the Earth is a different question altogether. I believe intelligent alien life almost certainly exists in the universe (probably even in our galaxy), but there is enough evidence for me to think they are definitely visiting the Earth. Maybe they are, but the UFO stories aren't yet enough to convince me that they are.

Originally posted by Phage
You're right.

The problem is that with most eyewitness reports there is usually absolutely nothing to do but say "Hmm. Interesting." On rare occasions important details like direction, time of day/night, elevation (not altitude, estimates of altitude are generally useless) are available. When things like this are provided there is room for discussion on possible explanations for what was seen.

When descriptions like "I saw a light that was like nothing I've ever seen before and it was huge and going 5,000 mph."....well, there's really no room for discussion. One can take it at face value and say "Wow. Gosh." or one can question the observational skills of the witness. It's been my experience that the latter is seldom well accepted. It's also been my experience in this sort of case that very often the details mentioned above, when asked about, turn out to make no sense. When asked what direction the witness may say "north". But then with a later question they will answer "It was right where the sun set." That sort of thing.

So, let's make it "Pics (or video) or there's nothing to discuss." Of course, if it isn't discussion but simply support which is sought...

edit on 12/5/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

"Pics or there isnt anything to discuss" is pretty much the same imo..

But then again you dont discuss anyway.. you debunk.

ETA: even in this post there is a definite "BUT" in your explanation after your agreement..

You even debunk while agreeing lol..

A neighbor and a co-worker who are both college-grads, but ignorant and arrogant all at the same time "Proof or it didn't happen" kind of folks ... if they didn't see it ... it didn't happen. But, then if you show them proof, they are the same ones to debate it. Every conversation becomes a debate or an argument ... sort of like an adolescent with ODD. They are also the same people who scrutinize the pics/vids and then question it's authenticity.

They just want to bust your !@##$% and evoke frustration so they can feel like they won something ... power freaks. They are the same people who approach everything in life as a contest, a game, because they see others as objects to be played with ... everything is a childish contest or a ridiculous game ... even including relationships, marriage, divorce, child-custody, and child-rearing ... everything ... one big game with a winner and a loser ... a game that they must win.

"If I didn't see it, it didn't happen" mentality ... Now, that's a real special kind of stupid.

reply to post by phantomjack

I heard Jesus couldn't swim. John the Baptist had a heck of a time that day with Jesus.

Parchment or it didn't happen....

Third line.

Sensationalism leads to stupidity. You don't want to go down that path. Us "photo or it didnt happen" people aren't saying anything like the long reaching ridiculous statements some of you are making.

We're saying that there are a lot of idiot people out there who will make up a story just to get attention.

So as a filter for the B.S. we say pics now or it didn't happen.

We live in the age of a camera being built into everything. Even if you have an old POS phone from 8 years ago, chances are still REALLY GOOD it has a camera built in.

If you see something amazing - take a picture.
If you don't take a picture - keep quiet and save face. Otherwise you're going to look and sound just like every other idiot that says they were abducted by aliens and flown to the planet Chrona-Zeenoid 5 for sexual experimentation.

"Aliens" absolutely exist. I just have significant doubts if they're interested in any of you.

Originally posted by Okandetre
I agree with the OP, but it's not just in this forum, or just pictures which are causing this problem. In other forums it's the "sources or it's not true". Which means you can't have any original/local news, even if it does risk false news. The worst part of this is that people on here don't trust the "mainstream" media, but also don't trust anything is not sources from said outlets, which leaves people confused, bitter and over cynical.

This is so true and a problem.
The way I see the mainstream media is:
If it's about terrorism then it's probably lies.
If it's about the government, it's probably half truths.
If it's about the banks then who knows, they control at least one of the above.
Anyways, I digrees.

To be honest, I think all posts, even the obviously trolled posts, can for the sake of arguement, be taken hypothetically as true, then let the debate follow from there. If someone posts something, it gives nothing to just add "pics or it didn't happen" or "sources or it's lies". What we should be asking is "if this is true then X, Y and Z". Given this train of thought, you will soon see if the subject is real or not or plausible or possible, which is worth alot more.

Even if something is wrong or such, to have a discussion of it's possibility gives everyone much more information.

Exactly, the point of forums such as this is debate. 'Visiting ESB' is bang on with this rant, a lot of people too quickly dismiss testimony.

Problem today with photos or videos is one word - Adobe (or similar).

Nowadays it seems the only 'partially' acceptible evidence is physical and even that can be faked.

reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous

I'm disappointed by those members that would make a claim that without pictures or video there is no discussion to be made.

This seems to be a pointed statement directed one particular post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But perhaps this part of the post was missed.

On rare occasions important details like direction, time of day/night, elevation (not altitude, estimates of altitude are generally useless) are available. When things like this are provided there is room for discussion on possible explanations for what was seen.

The "mere reporting" of a sighting more often than not is utterly useless (other than, "Hmmm. Interesting"). Adding the notoriously low reliability of eyewitness reports, the mistaken belief that one can judge the size, distance and speed of a unrecognized object in the sky and the tendency for the human mind to "fill in the blanks" after the fact, add those to the confirmation bias expressed by most of the witnesses which provide "reports" here and you end up at a dead end. Nothing to discuss unless you just want to say "Wow! You saw a UFO!" I would agree that the witness saw something they were unfamiliar with. Good for them.

As I said, if that's what you're after, great. If you don't want to hear possibly mundane possibilities, fine. But if you really want answers (other than "wow") you're going to have to come up with some real information. And pictures and videos wouldn't hurt.

Originally posted by Phage
You're right.

The problem is that with most eyewitness reports there is usually absolutely nothing to do but say "Hmm. Interesting." On rare occasions important details like direction, time of day/night, elevation (not altitude, estimates of altitude are generally useless) are available. When things like this are provided there is room for discussion on possible explanations for what was seen.

When descriptions like "I saw a light that was like nothing I've ever seen before and it was huge and going 5,000 mph."....well, there's really no room for discussion. One can take it at face value and say "Wow. Gosh." or one can question the observational skills of the witness. It's been my experience that the latter is seldom well accepted. It's also been my experience in this sort of case that very often the details mentioned above, when asked about, turn out to make no sense. When asked what direction the witness may say "north". But then with a later question they will answer "It was right where the sun set." That sort of thing.

So, let's make it "Pics (or video) or there's nothing to discuss." Of course, if it isn't discussion but simply support which is sought...

edit on 12/5/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

But lets be fair here, how many times do you look at a thread started with either a picture or not and within 3 posts there's numerous manners and decorum messages, the level of ignorance on here stinks sometimes.

I personally am fed up with the boring and over used throw away "its swamp gas", I see it day in day out and all it does is suggest the IQ of the poster being lower than a snails testicles (do they have testicles?..You get my drift).

How does a new poster feel if their story is greeted with either seeing the posts before they are censored or seeing manners and decorum which for my mind sometimes make it seem worse.

The level of manners especially by the die hard sceptics borders of disgusting at times.

If you don't believe or are not willing to be part of the group without acting like a spoilt child who think they are critical thinkers (don't you love that phrase used when they don't see the irony in how they behave) then please don't come. The forum is called Aliens and UFO's NOT sceptics who hate Aliens And UFO's. By nature its the discussion of the subject mostly by people believe but with counter discussing by either people like me who look at every account and do it story by story, saying if I feel its a fake even although I believe OR people who feel the issue is false and put forward well thought out counter proposals as to why they think that.

Picture or its fake

Its swamp gas

or stupid believer are NOT well thought out counter arguments!

Trust me, even us proper believers will pick a story apart and declare it false if that's the case

The aim of the forums are to invite people to (hopefully) tell their true story or case, proof sometimes can be a luxury that can't be offered but until the story is probed a not guilty should be the order of the day. Most hoaxes get caught out or the poster goes away as the story gets ripped open.

What really makes me laugh is when the sort of person who screams for proof then makes bold statements like they have inside sources in the military or speak to aliens but themselves baulk at offering proof, suddenly the shoes on the other foot and don't they just squirm then..

reply to post by Mclaneinc

I personally am fed up with the boring and over used throw away "its swamp gas", I see it day in day out and all it does is suggest the IQ of the poster being lower than a snails testicles (do they have testicles?..You get my drift).

I think you will find that "swamp gas" is thrown out as a preemptive sarcastic dig at skeptics. I haven't seen many (if any) of the skeptics on ATS actually say that.

In this day and age, especially on the internet, you simply cant trust anyone. ANYONE.

Therefore, pics..... or it didnt happen to all you ATS members.

This is the year 2012 people. The internet is riddled with stories and experiences, the one thing its not filled with is credible, non-fuzzy pictures or video or alot of topics talked about on ATS.

Therefore, pics..... or it didnt happen. I myself am tired of all the stories. It evidence time, or its shut up time. You choose ATS. Solid Evidence.

An anecdotal eyewitness story that has nothing to back up its validity is just that -- and anecdote.

That's not saying that the eyewitness is necessarily lying. That's just saying that there is no way of corroborating that the way the person is describing the event is actually what happened. People mis-identify things all the time. There have been sightings that were easily explainable as being NON-alien once a photograph or video was looked at. People can also mis-estimate the size, speed, and altitude of a sighting.

Frankly (and unfortunately), the ARE people who make up lies, but that's not the only reason for wanting more evidence (such as picture or video) of a sighting, other than a single eyewitness account.

so wait... asking for proof on something is considered ignorance? this is the internet we are talking about!

Us "photo or it didnt happen" people aren't saying anything like the long reaching ridiculous statements some of you are making.

We're saying that there are a lot of idiot people out there who will make up a story just to get attention.

So as a filter for the B.S. we say pics now or it didn't happen.

This is exactly the thing I meant by starting this thread. To conclude that an event did not happen unless you can show photographic evidence is outrageously ridiculous. Such conclusion shows that you've put no thought, no logic, no analysis in reaching that conclusion and that all that matters is a photo. If a photo were produced, you'd still say it didn't happen because no amount of evidence, testimonial, photographic, or even a chunk of an ET would suffice. You're not looking to filter BS -- you've already concluded that any story without pics is BS even before that story is told.

BTW, for all you POIDH people -- I've witnessed over a dozen UFOs since 1999. Not a single one of those sightings were photographed. I didn't (and still don't) carry a camera and even my cell phone doesn't have a camera. Those events happened. Whether you choose to believe it or not, they happened. If you want to deny reality by denying the truth of those sightings, go ahead, but that just means you choose to persist in ignorance by denying EVERY story that deals with this subject.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


See but this is the internet... why should I believe you.... thats just like me giving you my social security number because you say you are from the IRS (on a message board)

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
BTW, for all you POIDH people -- I've witnessed over a dozen UFOs since 1999. Not a single one of those sightings were photographed. I didn't (and still don't) carry a camera and even my cell phone doesn't have a camera. Those events happened. Whether you choose to believe it or not, they happened. If you want to deny reality by denying the truth of those sightings, go ahead, but that just means you choose to persist in ignorance by denying EVERY story that deals with this subject.

I believe you when you say you saw something. However, "What did you see" is the question.

A photograph or video would help the rest if us in trying to determine whether or not you misidentified something -- i.e., it may have been unexplainable to you, but perhaps still explainable never the less.

"Pics or it didn't happen" is just an internet joke. It isn't meant to be taken literally (although there are some people that make up stories about sightings -- but they are the tiny minority). The use of "POIDH" here usually simply means that the fact that one person saying they saw a UFO doesn't necessarily mean that the thing they saw was really an unidentified flying object. It may in fact be identifiable.

I mean, it happens a lot. A person will tell their story about a UFO sighting, but the accompanying video or picture shows it to be something mundane and/or explainable. If it wasn't for the video or picture in those instances, we would only have the eyewitness -- an eyewitness who was proven by the video or photo to have mis-identified the object. Or, more often, one member of ATS will have information in helping to identify the "unidentified" object for the rest of us.

I can think of plenty of examples of alot more ignorance than someone asking you to proove your statments.

too many nutjobs making all kinds of crazy claims and I for one support pics or it diddnt happen!