25 Pakistani soldiers reportedly killed in NATO helicopter shelling - Dawn.com

Originally posted by Jepic


No. It's simple.
NATO gunships murdered the troops during sleep.

And you know this how?

Were you there?

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by Jepic


No. It's simple.
NATO gunships murdered the troops during sleep.

And you know this how?

Were you there?

edit on 26/11/11 by MikeboydUS because: (no reason given)

It's a duck.

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by concernedcitizen519

 

Don't jump TOO fast to defend the Pakistani military. The Paki military Intelligence has been running the Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists since they were founded in the early 90's. This is *NOT* one of those situations where NATO or the U.S. can be looked upon as the clear bad guy or aggressor. Certainly not casually as a safe assumption as other areas may be.

Pakistan's Government and Military leaders are bloody up to their eyeballs in the fighting and death across that entire region of the world. Perhaps the NATO helicopter had good reason..and perhaps they didn't. Perhaps the Paki's shot at them...or maybe it was just payback for a similar shooting incident earlier.

Either way, that is one area I will NOT jump to the stories making the West look bad as automatic truth. It's FAR too complicated there to approach it in such simple terms, IMHO.

No. It's simple.
NATO gunships murdered the troops during sleep.

I certainly hope you are as quick to condemn foreign fighters when American troops are killed. I don't seem to recall such outrage and quick conclusions being reached after the Recruiting post was shot up in Little Rock, the mass shooting at Fort Hood or the like. Seems when the killing comes here, "we deserved it". When it happens over there... "We're criminals committing murder"...

Okay... Tell me. When we are wrong coming, going or just standing there doing nothing..What is it the United States or Western Powers need to do for some people to accept that not everything done is evil or criminal by definition? Just MAYBE the Paki's shot at the helicopter first? Perhaps there were AQ fighters chased right into that outpost in a hot pursuit situation. We don't know.....

Of course tho... Call the Americans or the NATO troops cold blooded murderers without further context or evidence. Always a safe bet.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Just MAYBE the Paki's shot at the helicopter first? Perhaps there were AQ fighters chased right into that outpost in a hot pursuit situation. We don't know.....

Even if the Pakistanis shot first, they had a right to. NATO illegally entered their airspace, what else were they gonna do?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by concernedcitizen519

 

Don't jump TOO fast to defend the Pakistani military. The Paki military Intelligence has been running the Al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists since they were founded in the early 90's. This is *NOT* one of those situations where NATO or the U.S. can be looked upon as the clear bad guy or aggressor. Certainly not casually as a safe assumption as other areas may be.

Pakistan's Government and Military leaders are bloody up to their eyeballs in the fighting and death across that entire region of the world. Perhaps the NATO helicopter had good reason..and perhaps they didn't. Perhaps the Paki's shot at them...or maybe it was just payback for a similar shooting incident earlier.

Either way, that is one area I will NOT jump to the stories making the West look bad as automatic truth. It's FAR too complicated there to approach it in such simple terms, IMHO.

No. It's simple.
NATO gunships murdered the troops during sleep.

I certainly hope you are as quick to condemn foreign fighters when American troops are killed. I don't seem to recall such outrage and quick conclusions being reached after the Recruiting post was shot up in Little Rock, the mass shooting at Fort Hood or the like. Seems when the killing comes here, "we deserved it". When it happens over there... "We're criminals committing murder"...

Okay... Tell me. When we are wrong coming, going or just standing there doing nothing..What is it the United States or Western Powers need to do for some people to accept that not everything done is evil or criminal by definition? Just MAYBE the Paki's shot at the helicopter first? Perhaps there were AQ fighters chased right into that outpost in a hot pursuit situation. We don't know.....

Of course tho... Call the Americans or the NATO troops cold blooded murderers without further context or evidence. Always a safe bet.

Does it matter if any fighters were chased to the outpost?
No. It doesn't. You can't just shoot to kill the fighters while disregarding collateral damage.

Things are simple. If there is gonna be innocent deaths, you don't shoot.

reply to post by GLaDOS


For the billions of dollars we send them every year, they can call the NATO unit commands in Afghanistan and let them know there are aircraft in their airspace.

Firing on aircraft from countries who give you billions of dollars annually isn't very smart.

reply to post by Jepic

As I noted..... When the fighting is in your nation and it's your family, friends or buddies who just got wasted by some Jihadi scumbags running back across a line on a map to find safety, I dare say you'll be the one rooting for that NATO Helicopter to remove them from this world before they can go rape and pillage someone else.

Who knows if that is the actual back story here. Northwest Pakistan IS Waziristan though, which is Indian Country to the extreme. I dropped a note on the thread here, because Pakistan's Government has been a bit out of Sync with Washington for the last 30 years, but as deep and drenched in blood as anyone to hold a U.S. position of power.

The I.S.I. may as well have BEEN the Mujaheddin the U.S. did support against the Soviets, but then went right on to all bout founding and actively supporting the Taliban, then later Al Qaeda.

I'll drop back off the thread here now tho... If I'd realized the depth and passion of Ant-American hate here I wouldn't have said anything to start. There is just no debating blind hate...and to automatically assume the Helicopter was just out for a fun day or murder is AS criminal in judgement as the behavior some would accuse the pilot of.

It's never a bad thing to wait for the facts before declaring some people to be evil incarnate. It IS often proven a bad mistake to jump to conclusions without them. Just a thought to consider here. Good Day.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by GLaDOS

 

For the billions of dollars we send them every year, they can call the NATO unit commands in Afghanistan and let them know there are aircraft in their airspace.

Firing on aircraft from countries who give you billions of dollars annually isn't very smart.

Killing 29 foreign soldiers isn't very smart. Unless you want to be one step closer to mutual annihilation.

reply to post by Jepic


Tell that to the Pakistani ISI, except it won't be mutual. They will be the only ones annihilated.

There isn't going to be any mutual annihilation over Pakistan. We would have to directly attack Russia for that to happen.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Jepic

 

As I noted..... When the fighting is in your nation and it's your family, friends or buddies who just got wasted by some Jihadi scumbags running back across a line on a map to find safety, I dare say you'll be the one rooting for that NATO Helicopter to remove them from this world before they can go rape and pillage someone else.

Who knows if that is the actual back story here. Northwest Pakistan IS Waziristan though, which is Indian Country to the extreme. I dropped a note on the thread here, because Pakistan's Government has been a bit out of Sync with Washington for the last 30 years, but as deep and drenched in blood as anyone to hold a U.S. position of power.

The I.S.I. may as well have BEEN the Mujaheddin the U.S. did support against the Soviets, but then went right on to all bout founding and actively supporting the Taliban, then later Al Qaeda.

I'll drop back off the thread here now tho... If I'd realized the depth and passion of Ant-American hate here I wouldn't have said anything to start. There is just no debating blind hate...and to automatically assume the Helicopter was just out for a fun day or murder is AS criminal in judgement as the behavior some would accuse the pilot of.

It's never a bad thing to wait for the facts before declaring some people to be evil incarnate. It IS often proven a bad mistake to jump to conclusions without them. Just a thought to consider here. Good Day.

No. I would not wish them to shoot at the insurgents.
In fact I would join the insurgents to get you scumbags out of my country.

"Let's go my kid. I want to show you what NATO is really all about. When you grow up, like me you too will defend this region from foreign aggression. Because we are from the middle east. Just like we did for the past millenia. And just like we did against the soviets. And we will triumph against the west. Allah Akbar!"

You catch their drift now?

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Jepic

 

Tell that to the Pakistani ISI, except it won't be mutual. They will be the only ones annihilated.

There isn't going to be any mutual annihilation over Pakistan. We would have to directly attack Russia for that to happen.

No? Go on then. Send MORE troops into Pakistan.

Then stretch them out to Syria.

Then stretch them out to Iran.

Then stretch them out to North Korea.

Then stretch them out to China.

Then stretch them out to Russia.

Then stretch them out to Europe, because we are starting to really want a piece of you too.

Get nice and stretched. Just how the world likes it.

I posted earlier and it appears the death toll has risen. Still, as I said earlier the information is coming from one source and that is the Pakistani government. The loss of the Pakistani troops is regrettable, and it appears on the surface it was an epic mess up? It has been widely known that militants cross back forth between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

This attack could have been an attempt to neutralize militants as they crossed over the border and in pursuit they actually crossed the border and came dangerously close to the Pakistani army checkpoint? I am only speculating here, because the information is still being made public. I believe it is an epic accident, and if the pilots and crews are found to be at fault then they should be prosecuted. Lets not over dramatize or over sensationalize about this because the mainstream media does a great job at that on their own. Lets not point the finger at anyone until we know more about what happened and why?

reply to post by concernedcitizen519


This incident will probably be written up as a fog of war event.

The border will be reopened. If not then cut off the money to Pakistan.

They are in cahoots with Al Qaeda anyway. Cut them off.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by concernedcitizen519

 

This incident will probably be written up as a fog of war event.

The border will be reopened. If not then cut off the money to Pakistan.

They are in cahoots with Al Qaeda anyway. Cut them off.

They'll just make a deal with China or Russia.

reply to post by Jepic


Stretch to Europe? Most of Europe is already NATO.

If your talking about US troops, we already have tens of thousands all over Europe: Germany, Italy, the UK, Belgium, and Spain all base US troops.

Originally posted by Jepic

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by concernedcitizen519

 

This incident will probably be written up as a fog of war event.

The border will be reopened. If not then cut off the money to Pakistan.

They are in cahoots with Al Qaeda anyway. Cut them off.

They'll just make a deal with China or Russia.

They probably already have. I say cut them off now.

Right now we are bribing them to be 2 faced.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I certainly hope you are as quick to condemn foreign fighters when American troops are killed.

You are forgetting that the US are also foreign fighters.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Jepic

 

Stretch to Europe? Most of Europe is already NATO.

If your talking about US troops, we already have tens of thousands all over Europe: Germany, Italy, the UK, Belgium, and Spain all base US troops.

Yep. Just perfectly packed for a nice present from the skies, aren't they?

reply to post by Jepic


Packed? For Presents?

I don't know what that reference is to, nukes, Santa Claus or the craptastic air forces of Russia and China, regardless: No one wins a nuclear war, Santa Claus isn't real and the US maintains more combat air power than Russia and China combined.

Along with stopping NATO supply lines, it appears Pakistan have asked US out of Shamsi Airbase as well. This is the base, allegedly used by CIA predator drones for attacks within FATA on militants

link:

www.dawn.com...
www.geo.tv...

Shamsi Airbase:

www.dawn.com...


Pakistan would be aware that meeting force with force would only complicate matters further, and consequences could be further and furiously aggravated if such an initiative comes to pass. the best form of retaliation would likely be passive, along the lines of what appears to be transpiring from their side at the moment. besides, the current crop of leaders at the helm do not have the spine to retaliate in form of armed confrontation.

In coming days however, it could be well possible that Pakistan's proxies on the side of Afghanistan conjure up retaliation of sorts against NATO.