Oakland : second Iraq war veteran in intensive care after police clashes

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


Uh huh.

So you think I'm siding with whatever you hate because I don't agree with OWS' methods?

My suspicions on OWS have been proven correct time and time again. As far as I'm concerned they have no legitimacy.

That doesn't mean that I am for abusive practices in banking or revolving door politics.

OWS doesn't have a monopoly on those complaints.

reply to post by WiZKiD111


Oh, did you mean me posting in this thread that I wish you would continue this debate?

If you think I am this guys buddy, honestly you could not be further from the truth. First, I barely know the guy and second we typically disagree... 9 times out of ten. You just caught us on that one time.

I was speaking for me and me alone. So, don't think that I represent him in anyway.

What I said was my own opinion. I would like to see you continue the discussion. And it is an observation of mine that it comes across as you being unable to rebutt his statements, when you run away from the conversation.

Like I said, If you feel that his statements are "dis-informational" why allow him to say them? Why not prove him wrong?

I just like a good debate. But I do apologize if my words came across as an attack. Not my intention at all.

Honestly, they were said because I am rooting for you in this debate..... I want him to be wrong about OWS....But I don't think he is. And I do agree with his statements in this thread... Though, you can probably gather that from my previous posts. I just simply wish it were not so...

So for what that is worth, yes I would love for you to continue this conversation.

reply to post by projectvxn


there you go half cocked again [that was fast, check edited post btw]

ASSuming things

also one does not hate that which one does not fear

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

Somebody who previously served in the army and is protesting with the OWS supporters makes it a lot more plausible that they 'have woken up' then somebody serving in the army.Scrap that, you can't serve in the army and claim yourself to be enlightened, that's a joke.

Yep, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Service members are worthless to you unless they serve your purposes.

funny how you don't despise those who are now rich because you and countless others served their purposes

if it's in the service of your masters its good
if it's against them it's bad

classic Stockholm syndrome

reply to post by gimme_some_truth



you might be interested in this as well as anybody interested in starting their own occupy tribe

how sad and disappointing these tea partiers,
it's their way or the highway with them
oh well, guess compared to OWS, the tea party hasn't really accomplished much

Why Occupy? Why Tea Party? Why Protest? Simple; The US economy is broken. Incomes are less than they were 35 years ago. Everything costs more. We've had 17% unemployment (traditional measure) for 2 years and we're about to lose many more jobs.. Our collective debt is 370% of our GDP (from all sources, from consumer to gov't). Our financial system has a) enabled the transfer of our manufacturing jobs to a mercantilist (managed trade) China and b) stolen the rest of our wealth (and is in the process of gambling what's left of it away). Finally, given the ongoing instability of our economic system, we don't have long before the entire thing fails and with it our collective future (rich or poor). The question really is: why aren't you protesting? why isn't everyone protesting?

This chart (below) shows why the Tea Party is different than the Occupy movement

source:
globalguerrillas.typepad.com... dbroken-system-completely-rej.html


How to Create an Occupy Tribe: globalguerrillas.typepad.com...

There's no question that the Occupy groups have done a great job with constructing the outlines of resilient communities in the heart of many of our most dense urban areas.

People pitch in to do work. They are considerate despite the difficulty of the arrangement. Food gets served. The area gets cleaned. There is entertainment. There's innovation (equipment, tech, workarounds). There is education (lots of seminars being taught). There is open, participatory governance. All of this is great and this experience will definitely pay off over the next decade as the global economy deteriorates, panics, fails. It will make building resilient communities easier (there are lots of ways to build a resilient community, we're trying to document all of the ways how on MiiU).
However, is this experience building a tribal identity? An Occupy tribe? Something that can eventually (there's lots to do in the short to medium term) go beyond protest and build something new? One even strong enough to create new resilient economic and social networks that step into the breach as the current one fails?

direct link to MiiU ("me:you")
The Resilient Community Wiki: www.miiu.org...

Welcome to MiiU ("me:you")
The Resilient Community Wiki

A resilient community is a place that produces most of what it needs locally. It connects virtually for everything else. It's a vibrant local economy as well as a community that is immune to a) global depression, b) political instability, c) shortages, famines, etc., and d) most effects of natural disasters. In short, it's resilient.

MiiU is a collection of all the resources and places that make personal, family, and community resilience possible. Resilience isn't only about surviving global failures, it's about building a better life for you and everyone around you.

if prople were to educate themselves and organize we could completely drop out of the current system with no violence on our part

self-defense against the parasites in control of the system attempting to drag the escaped slaves back to the plantation, of course does not constitute violence

EDIT:
ZIP READ SOMETHING COMPLETELY WRONG

reply to post by neo96


when you were a kid and did something wrong or were in the wrong
wasn't this ever pointed out to you?

same difference, different sandlot, dude

reply to post by WiZKiD111


Actually it seems quite clear he has an axe to grind.. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The man sees the whole OWS movement as people who would spit upon him, that being said, unreasoning rhetoric should be expected? No?

Moving on...


Sad to see more people get hurt.. regardless of service record or lack thereof. Best wishes to the injured.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

Oh, did you mean me posting in this thread that I wish you would continue this debate?

If you think I am this guys buddy, honestly you could not be further from the truth. First, I barely know the guy and second we typically disagree... 9 times out of ten. You just caught us on that one time.

I was speaking for me and me alone. So, don't think that I represent him in anyway.

What I said was my own opinion. I would like to see you continue the discussion. And it is an observation of mine that it comes across as you being unable to rebutt his statements, when you run away from the conversation.

Like I said, If you feel that his statements are "dis-informational" why allow him to say them? Why not prove him wrong?

I just like a good debate. But I do apologize if my words came across as an attack. Not my intention at all.

Honestly, they were said because I am rooting for you in this debate..... I want him to be wrong about OWS....But I don't think he is. And I do agree with his statements in this thread... Though, you can probably gather that from my previous posts. I just simply wish it were not so...

So for what that is worth, yes I would love for you to continue this conversation.

edit on 4-11-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

I haven't spoken to or about you once.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


That is quite a bit of info. Thanks. I will certainly read it all.

Forgive me if it takes me a while to make a direct reply. I am multi tasking, so it will take me a while to read it all.

Originally posted by WiZKiD111

I haven't spoken to you or about you once.

Well, excuse me for attempting to apologize to you for thinking that I had maybe offended you....


Erm.... Sorry for being sorry?

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by WiZKiD111

 

Apolitical, don't kid yourself.

Yes it is apolitical.

I think you've displayed enough ignorance of how the military works that you should be more cautious of arguing these points with me.

We do what the POTUS tells us to do.

Don't like it? Vote in your own people to congress and get your own guy in the White House.

same argument made at Nuremberg, more or less

but hey, keep standing up for POSUS* and your masters
but don't cry when your health benefits get cut [coming soon]
and you're replaced by a drone.

*not a mistype

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by WiZKiD111

I haven't spoken to you or about you once.

Well, excuse me for attempting to apologize to you for thinking that I had maybe offended you....

You had said you were attacked and mine was the only post that I saw that could be construed as an attack on you...

Sorry for being a decent human being?

edit on 4-11-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

There is no need to apologize on 'attacking me', as that only means one thing.
Being honest with you I haven't read one post of yours addressing me.

That was not meant to be a stab against you, believe me.

Much love.

reply to post by WiZKiD111


Ah, I got you. No, I had just thought that maybe you meant my post encouraging you to continue the debate.

And I thought that maybe it came out wrong and that I offended you. Just apologizing, to make sure, because nothing I ever say on this site is meant to be an attack on anyone.

Which is why I apologize the few times it comes across as one.





But now that you have read some of my posts.. I hope you continue the debate. It was a good one.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


and it doesn't necessarily have to be for OWS purposes

as i said, it's a way to remove oneself from the system, enough of these resilient communities pop up
and the current parasitical system will shrivel up and die.
well ideally, no doubt similar tactics as used to date against OWS will be applied

lies, defamation, disinfo, infiltration by agents provocateurs, sex attacks,etc.

reply to post by WiZKiD111


calm down tiger!

Originally posted by projectvxn
These veterans only matter to you people because they're participating in OWS.

If they are actually serving the country or aren't part of OWS then you people would be screaming about them being baby killers, murderers and what ever other anti-service member garbage you all spew..You use the veteran status as a symbol trying to siphon off the legitimacy of it while simultaneously holding contempt for the very actions that made it possible for you OWS people to use them like pawns in your stupid little propaganda war.

You make me sick.

edit on 4-11-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

That's quite unfair to say, you don't know any of us personally nor what tugs at our heart strings. That man is a human first but secondly he is a human that put his life on the line to further the corporate cause under the guise of patriotism. He probably has to live with the horrors of war everyday of his life, something I can't even fathom, only have a general empathy for. To come home and be tortured more is just....that is worth getting sick over.

Originally posted by Kali74
That's quite unfair to say, you don't know any of us personally nor what tugs at our heart strings. That man is a human first but secondly he is a human that put his life on the line to further the corporate cause under the guise of patriotism.

Is that what he put his life on the line for? Do you know him personally?Did you ask him his reasons for joining? Or are you just generalizing and using his service as a means to attack the people that he volunteered to fight for?

THAT is what projectvxn is on about and he has a very valid point....

It's disrespectful to this man, that he be used as a tool to take shots at the government. He joined and he had his own reasons..... It is disrespectful to use his service and the fact that he is now injured as a means to attack the government...

Believe me, I think changes need to be made as much as the next guy... Maybe even more so... But using people in order to take shots at the power that is being protested against, is not the way to do it...

Which is what you just did, intentional or not.Use him to take a shot at the corporations and other powers, people like you and I are having problems with.

If we want true change to take place than we all really need to quit standing around and calling each other names and taking cheap shots. If we want change then we really need to work together, converse and come up with solutions....

What we are all doing now, taking shots at each other, is only dividing us further, and hurting us all...

I wish for both sides of this debate to come together and to work together.I think that we can all agree that things are far from perfect and while we may have differing opinions on what needs to be changed and why, we all should be able to discuss and work toward proper change.

Honestly, that is what I hope to see... Because if the violence in the movement continues. If we all continue to take cheat shots at each other.... In the end....Not much will happen... Well, I am sick of status quo.

I say, let's quit bickering and attacking everyone else... How about we work together now to find the solution and then put that solution into motion?

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


It's disrespectul that a man was beaten to the point he has a lacerated spleen. But sure, be outraged at the people raising awareness of it as opposed to the crime.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

It's disrespectul that a man was beaten to the point he has a lacerated spleen. But sure, be outraged at the people raising awareness of it as opposed to the crime.

I AM one of those people raising awareness... You should really read my first several posts in this thread in order to see where I am coming from.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...


I am just sick of the name calling and bickering is all... That is exactly what "they" want...You keep that up and watch the OWS movement fail....

Divide and conquer, anyone?

No need to attack me, I am on your side.