The Moon Is Upsidedown Tonight ! Las Vegas, Nevada

reply to post by Dashdragon


I appreciate your opinion/s and the time that you took with your post. I star you for that. But rather than take 45 minutes to disect your post and show the Holes in it, I will make this quick and easy.

I respect Phage and some of if not all that you mention as well as the opinions of the other posters that you mention. I also respect a great deal of Stellarium. But thats not the point. Nor does it mean I agree with all of them/it The point is they are no more experts than I am. We are not talking about lines and circles. I am talking about the simple fact that.

#1 For a person to see a Boat moon, the moon must set on the same parallel as the observer.
#2 The moon is never overhead on the 36th latitudes NEVER ( at least its not supposed to be ) And for the moon to set on the 36th parallel creating a boat, it is nonsense. Why? The Sun has to be directly below the moon in order to create the needed reflection that is a boat shaped bottom , from the viewers perspective.

On another note as far as Stellarium is concerned? I got a little secret for you. Stellarium is not portraying ( according to my eyes ) an accurate ongoing depiction of the light reflecting on the moon at sunset and Stellarium itself is my proof. Why?

There are many times if you speed up the days ( fast forwarding ) you will see many times that the sun sets in a specific area and the moon sets noticably behind it ,BUT Stellarium shows the moon as a boat when it should clearly be angled noticably.

reply to post by CherubBaby


Cherub, here's the thing though - The moon in your photos is not a perfect boat. The terminator on the half moon/crescent you posted is not parallel to the horizon. That clearly shows that it was not directly overhead of your position on the planet.

The angle the terminator is tiled compared to the horizon corresponds directly with where you are and what latitude the moon's orbit is over.

As has been shown, the Moon's orbit currently takes it over Mexico at night around approximately 20 degrees north (because the Earth's axial tilt is approaching the point where the planet will be leaning directly away from the Sun). With you being only 16 degrees further north than that, you see a moon that is tilted around 16 degrees from being a perfect boat. Me, being in Kentucky at 38 degrees north, gets to see almost the exact same thing with around 2 degrees more tilt.

Perhaps you could show us an image for the Moon you expect to see during the crescent phase this month? We've shown you what you should see and have found it matches well indeed with what you have shown. We've explained why. However, you persist in this delusion that the Moon should only look this way at the equator despite the fact that the moon does not orbit around our planet's equator. Its orbit around our planet lines up closely with our planet's orbit around the Sun, which is also closely lined up with the equator of the Sun.

The Stellarium comment I would be interested in seeing what you are talking about, because so far the others here that regularly used it have shown time and again that it does agree with what you should be seeing.

Lastly, even if this weren't normal (which I assure you it is), you wouldn't need me or anyone else comparing angles of the phase of the Moon to show you anything as the Earth would be in pretty bad shape by now. The Moon isn't just a pretty ball in the sky and the general stability of the Earth/Moon system has a lot riding on it that would be quite evident to us pretty darn quick if either body suddenly went rogue.

Originally posted by CherubBaby
There are many times if you speed up the days ( fast forwarding ) you will see many times that the sun sets in a specific area and the moon sets noticably behind it ,BUT Stellarium shows the moon as a boat when it should clearly be angled noticably.

Can you give an example date (and location, if not Las Vegas) when this happens in Stellarium?

reply to post by CherubBaby


So when you find something tht does not seem right on stellarium...stop the screen and take note of the date and time and direction. Then report your information so others can see what you are talking about....k?

IF you really are seeing something off in the sky or on the program...dont you think we would all be interested in observing and investigating it? Why tell everyone 'something is off' but then not give any info of where we can look for ourselves? why?

Now I hve had problems with stellarium. I do lot of astronomy readings and I have noticed that Im best off to set each date I want and time anew...then to just fast forward or rewind. I was having some problems of it showing the moon in a different place then what it should be. How could I know that when Im doing dates and times of 20 years or more back? Because I knew the phase of the moon that it was supposed to be. For example I knew there should be a full moon but the moon on stellarium was in Stuck mode from the last date I moved from. So I just learned to always type in each date separately. I would say I only had that trouble about 5% of the time (rough estimate) so I then started using 2 programs to double check and triple check, before I noted what location the moon should of been. There can be glitches...so I am not doubting that there could be another glitch. I will give you a link to another program and so far I have found not 1 glitch in it. Its more simpler then stellarium in that you cant fast forward and rewind...but you can type in any date and time and check out what the orbits were.

www.starrynighteducation.com...=4&LatD=43&LatM=40&LatRG=N&LonD=79&LonM=24&LonRG=W&HH=09&Min=00&AmPm=2&MM=11&DD=23&YY=2011&DST=&SD=Ye s&LocMMA=&LabStar=Yes&Lab=Yes&Cons=Yes&Hor=Yes&SG=&PW=410&PH=358&Az=180&FOV=90&Alt=25&Elev=3&LocN=Earth&Explore=No&

Another person pointed out, again, that what you saw was not a true boat moon. It was lit at an angel and not totally lit on only the bottom. This shows that the sun would not of been directly setting below the moon (or seeming to from earth) at the same location on the horizon. And the information that has been given shows that the sun set a little to the right of where the moon finally set....being that it shined at an angle, and not making a true boat moon.

reply to post by Dashdragon


It wasn't fully set that night when I took the picture but it was more of a boat when it set I know what your saying. I will get back to the thread as soon as I can. I will be busy with Stellarium and trying what Leo Virgo recommened. thx

Originally posted by CherubBaby
Nor does it mean I agree with all of them/it The point is they are no more experts than I am. We are not talking about lines and circles.

But what would it take then?

My issue with all of your threads is this: even if we were to get someone from NASA, JPL, a university professor, or respected astronomer, and they told you what the majority has been saying (the moon is as it should be), you would STILL dismiss it. We could set up a panel of confirmed experts and you would STILL just cross your arms, shake your head, and mumble "I sees what I sees."

You know full well that's what would happen. There is absolutely nothing that will change your belief, and you know it. Every one of your threads is designed purely for you to "talk shop" with those who agree with you.

In the happiest of times which were also the most mundane of times this is what the moon in all its' ancient familiarity looked like in Kansas. Notice the angle in the sky. Isn't it wonderful. How perfectly normal.




From this link:www.flickr.com...

Here is what the moon in Kansas looks like in our times. Times of change. Signs in the heavens. A perfect boat without angles to take away from the subject.



From this link:
science.nasa.gov...

reply to post by luxordelphi



As has been explained about a dozen (or more) times....there are sidereal and other orbital patterns and relationships to the geometry of the Sun-Earth-Moon, and how they relate. Based on the month of the year, and also slight variances in the way things relate, year-over-year.

Think in three-dimensions....please. Build a model if it will help.

reply to post by ColAngus


You say in your post to me,,

We could set up a panel of confirmed experts and you would STILL just cross your arms, shake your head, and mumble "I sees what I sees." You know full well that's what would happen. There is absolutely nothing that will change your belief and you know it

Well you are sure of that? You speak as if you are the one that knows my mind better than I do.
See I could say to you that your going to go off topic constantly no matter how many times you are asked not to.
So would I be right? Or better yet, Have I been right?


You know I think that this is relevant though. I have no vested interest in anyway shape or form when it comes to my quest for answers. Do you? I am one of those people that never looses faith in something , once I am convinced in my own time and journey for the triuth. If I had all the proof I needed at this moment, to put my life on the line for this subject. I wouldnt be in this conversation.

So that says enough about me and what may take place in the future as far as discovery and or being convinced of new things that I may not know at this time. Time will tell.
So the issue for isn't what I am gonna do or will do or have done. The issue is why is this so important for me to do and believe what you and those of like mind, tell me to do and believe. But, I smile when I say this, not because it's funny or a joke . I smile because it's true...(At this point )

Let's say my car is old but still runs good and some guy keeps telling me that I should get a new one.
I would say "Hey it runs great" If he replied "No it doesn't" "You haven't been paying attention" "Here I will show you how your car should run" as he handed me pictures of what a car runs like. and tells me "That car can't run right" As I find out he is a car salesman. I would have few words for him..and no faith in what he says. Who would?

So whats the moral to the story? The guy can't be trusted, because he was a car salesman and had a vested interest in me doing what he proposed and never listened when I told him I drive the car, I know how it runs.

Would you agree Its hard to be nuetral if you are in the debunking business. Would you agree with that.? For example, If I said I had a website that proved the Chemies were right and The Contrail Truthers were in business of error and trying to spread a message of deception etc. Would that be fair and balanced to you? Would you have any expectation of being debated fairly and truthfully by a person like that?

Lastly . What if a person just wants to share what they think , simply because they feel its ok to share what you think and get a balanced opinion rather than " You wont ever listen" " God himself could tell you and you would say no your wrong " Sound familiar?

Then you end this warm and friendly discusssion with,

Every one of your threads is designed purely for you to "talk shop" with those who agree with you.

Now that statement above is not only untrue but hypocritical at best because the threads I have created are of various topics and you havent read them or you wouldn't say what you say about me. Its easy to slander me or make me out to be a "Johnny Got to Be loved by Everybody" Very east to do when you yourself have never created a single thread , according to your profile. Am I lying? ?? ?? So why dont create a thread about your beliefs in this subject? Or is it just easier to do what your trying to do to me.

reply to post by CherubBaby


Fair enough. You believe what you want to believe and you won't accept any information, data, evidence, charts, graphs, pictures, videos, testimonials, links, etc. that could threaten your desired belief (which the best I can tell isbased on you being a night fisherman some 30 years ago or whatnot). The others can work themselves silly trying to educate you. I've frankly hit the wall. I can haz fail.

So like I said in the other thread, I'll leave you to your fantasyland of rogue planets and chemical witchcraft, just in case it's all you have. Cheers, and see ya at Frankie's Tiki Room sometime.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

As has been explained about a dozen (or more) times....there are sidereal and other orbital patterns and relationships to the geometry of the Sun-Earth-Moon, and how they relate. Based on the month of the year, and also slight variances in the way things relate, year-over-year.

Think in three-dimensions....please. Build a model if it will help.

edit on Wed 23 November 2011 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)

I am in 3 dimensions as is the moon and sky and earth and sun when I go look at them. If the moon is now traveling N of 28.5 degrees N latitude then it's time to spit it out and cut the dung beetle food with the orbital patterns. Please RELATE to how the moon can be OVERHEAD at 38.5 degrees N latitude in Kansas. How did it happen? Why did it happen? Why do I need to be sold a bill of goods about how this has always gone on when even the NASA story calls itself 'Crescent Moon Alert?' There are 2 crescent moons a month - one waning and one waxing. Why would an alert be necessary? Care to explain?

reply to post by luxordelphi


You are only looking at the latitude relative to the Earth's surface, and not comprehending the other angles, to the MOST important being, the tilt of the earth's axis, relative to it's orbital path (plane) AND, the angle of the Moon's orbital plane, around the Earth...AND, all of those TWO relative to the angle the SUN is shining on both....AND, finally....where YOU are when viewing the ORB of the Moon, as illuminated by the Sun.

Make a model.

It will help you to visualize.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Who stated the Moon is directly overhead as viewed in Kansas? I do not see that in any posts...The Moon is not even visible until sunrise right now...

reply to post by luxordelphi


By the way, did you ever come to the conclusion that March is Winter in the Northern Hemisphere?

reply to post by luxordelphi

The Moon was directly overhead in Kansas? If that's the case something is definitely wrong. Were you lying on your back looking straight up (it can be hard to tell where straight up is if you're standing or sitting) at 2 in the morning on the 13th? That's when the Moon was at its highest this month but it should have been at an elevation of about 73º, not 90º.


www.timeanddate.com...

reply to post by ProudBird


Capitalizing will not make you more credible. Failing to respond to my questions will not get you a dialogue with me. Now you will have to wait till I feel like posting in this thread again. Please review in the meantime the last pictures I posted, particularly the NASA 'Crescent Moon Alert.'

reply to post by jeichelberg


Do you know where the Northern Hemisphere is? I need a bit of help is the hemi on the asian contenent you are talking about or is it north viet nam or northern Rushah?

reply to post by jeichelberg


Can you snap some time lapse of the moon when it comes up ? appreciate it..

reply to post by luxordelphi


THIS is part of the whole point:

Please review in the meantime the last pictures I posted, particularly the NASA 'Crescent Moon Alert.'

Take some time to read through this NASA article:

NASA Crescent Moon Alert

Odd, you posted it earlier....but didn't read it?

reply to post by CherubBaby

That would be difficult. The Moon doesn't rise tonight. It rises about an hour and 45 minutes before sunrise tomorrow. In other words, it won't really be very visible because it's a New Moon the next day.

www.timeanddate.com...

Oops, sorry. Make that 36 minutes before the Sun. I skipped a day.