Chemtrails in Arizona this Week.

Originally posted by Annee
I KNOW what I saw. That is my qualification.

Eyes wide open, mind shut tight. Gotcha.

No chance that what you saw were persistent contrails?

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by Annee
I KNOW what I saw. That is my qualification.

Eyes wide open, mind shut tight. Gotcha.

No chance that what you saw were persistent contrails?

Not at all. As I said - - I've lived in AZ for 20 years (on a mesa) - - seen lots of contrails. Also grew up under the LAX flight path. 60+ years of airplane behavior visual.

I'm speaking of one incident in all those other visuals. Observing through very good binoculars.

There were 2 planes that clearly turned crossing each others path making a Tic-Tac-Toe pattern.

No mistaking what I saw.

Originally posted by Annee

I'm speaking of one incident in all those other visuals. Observing through very good binoculars.

There were 2 planes that clearly turned crossing each others path making a Tic-Tac-Toe pattern.

No mistaking what I saw.

How does that make them chemtrails and not persistent contrails?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Annee

 

And what are your qualifications for deciding the adequacy of my qualifications, and those of all my colleagues??

I KNOW what I saw.

Yes...so you keep saying - white lines in the sky crossing that you say were not contrails - but you offer nothing to support that conclusion at all.

Apparently you think that because you have never seen contrails crossing therefore they cannot ever do so.

Well that's not good enough for me.

That is my qualification.

Amazing - apparently the ability to see contrail crossing in the sky is a qualification enough to say that degrees, decades of experience and a hundred years or more of science is all BS.


Yeah.....right!!

I know what I saw.

You all can blah blah til doomsday.

I'm done.

reply to post by Annee


Benefit of the doubt for you, just to get as much detail as you can relate in this forum.

There were 2 planes that clearly turned crossing each others path making a Tic-Tac-Toe pattern.

Firstly, do you know what a holding pattern is? (You can Google the term, or I can link to it....either way).

Second, once you look up holding patterns, you will notice that they are a sort of *racetrack* shape.....each end a 180° half-circle, and two straight sections in between. Is this similar? Did you see the ends -- the curved bits?

You had binocs.....so, what would say were the airplane types? Since you lived in LA, near enough to LAX (I grew up in LA, by the way.....and, back living here now..... PV, actually) ...since you had binocs, and due to being near LAX for long time, you may be somewhat familiar with different jets.

Are you good at estimating altitude? Doesn't have to be exact, that is very difficult (even for experienced pilots)...but, the difference between say, 15,000 feet and 30,000 feet is dead easy to judge. Just as 10,000 to 15,000 is a bit easier (depends a lot on experience, and knowing the type of airplane, because of relative size differences).

Also.....you may live at a fairly high elevation in AZ (you mentioned a 'mesa')....so all those altitudes I mentioned are referenced to above MSL, since that is the normal criteria. You have to account for that, by allowing for your actual elevation on land, above MSL. (Most places in AZ, only a few thousand feet....Phoenix is at roughly ~1,000 MSL for instance. Flagstaff elevation about 7,000 feet)......

Any more details of that nature?

Originally posted by Annee
I know what I saw.

You saw white lines in the sky - you said so - I said I don't doubt you. I still don't doubt you, despite all your flim flam.

You all can blah blah til doomsday.

I call them exactly what you said they are - white lines in the sky.

You can't honestly tell me you know they are chemtrails because you haven't don any sort of chemical analysis on them - and to say you know they are chemtrails is just dishonest.

I'm done.

Yep.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Sorry, Aloysious......only on the aspect of the ("kinda") personal nature I gleaned from that post, I must disagree with your approach.

I know, we write what we think.....Science knows!, that is how I live MY life. By rational thinking, not influenced by so - called "sheeple" mentality....(OH, am I gonna get flamed over that!!) Of course, I also have a WHOLE LOT of knowledge..but, beside the point.....so DO YOU!!

YES, indeed....."Aloysious" does know what he is talking about....take it from a pilot who can tell when a mechanic is telling te truth, or spouting Bull Radish.....( ).

I can tell.....for what it's worth. The *audience* may judge.....

reply to post by ProudBird


Yep - well these people forget that they are accusing a lot of people like me of crimes & quit frankly I see no reason to mollycoddle them when they make it personal.

Sometimes they are polite & I try to be the same - but ultimately I am not going to let them slander me.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

...........but ultimately I am not going to let them slander me.

I would add...."Hear, Hear!"

And lend all of the support that I can. I especially liked that term "collywaddle" .... of course as a "Yank" it's not usually in our lexicon, but when a person has traveled a bit, one picks up on lingo and slang, especially as relates to one's Native language (English). So, 'thanks' for that new addition.

Now, where we we to the topic??

Oh, yes.....just took another look at the OP.

Right NORMAL CONTRAILS I say, "Guv'nr"!!



No really.....all cockney attempted (and poorly executed) accents aside......well.....the OP's video, and even the still frames too, that were a part of the video....well.....they are STILL quite normal contrails sorry.....

What is even worse (??)....since the OP mentioned the exact geographical location of the camera, during that photo-shoot (time-lapsed, yes)....will not be difficult to actually research the history of the airlines that flew overhead that time, that day. ANYONE want to do the research?

www.flightaware.com...

There are resources there to :look back: in time, up to the limits of what that website wishes to save as history. Better get on it quickly.....

Annee, if your still here, I understand that your feeling a bit bashed and your last few posts on the matter scream "defensive shell" at me.

I seriously don't want to add to this feeling but, I would like to ask, when, in a few posts on here, different people have said things like cloud seeding never happens when the there are no clouds to seed and the skies are blue, what is your reaction to that? Do you just not believe it?

If this is the case why do you think it is wrong and what do you think cloud seeding is?

(anyone else feel free to answer, it is an open forum despite what some of the members might want)

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Annee

 

And what are your qualifications for deciding the adequacy of my qualifications, and those of all my colleagues??

I KNOW what I saw. That is my qualification.

Annie, I think Aloysius' point is that he's not questioning what you saw, but your interpretation of what it was you saw.

Maybe it's like two people who saw a dog running down the street. The first one reports a dog chasing something that he couldn't see. The second person reports a dog being chased by something he couldn't see. Which one was right? Well, each one saw the dog running, but neither of them saw what he was chasing (or what he was being chased by) so they combined what is objective (there was a dog running) with what was subjective (why they thought the dog was running).

I think there's an important difference between what we see and how we interpret it.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by ProudBird

 

Yep - well these people forget that they are accusing a lot of people like me of crimes & quit frankly I see no reason to mollycoddle them when they make it personal.

I can certainly understand that. I have worked for The Boeing Company here in Mesa for 20 years and spent most of the 20 years prior to that in either the military or the aerospace/defense community. Since I certainly have nothing to hide, I tell anyone who asks what I do and where I do it. If I had a dollar for every yahoo who accused me of "being part of the plot", I'd be able to take mama out to a nice spa for a weekend. If I had a dollar for everyone who claimed that everything they didn't understand was "proof" that they were the victims of a huge plot by these same "shills", I'd be able to retire to a tropical island!

I am appalled at how ignorant most people are of those matters -- not just the science and technology involved, but an understanding of procurement and reporting activities and even the basic concept of cost-effectiveness in a design.

There are hundreds of people here who actually believe that because one person patented some aspect of a technology, it is "proof" that not only does the thing work, but it works so well that the Gummint immediately snatched it up and is making a bazillion of them in their Secret Underground Labs.

Even more upsetting is the fact that so many people don't even understand 9th grade science: think of all the people who say that no stars in some of the Moon photos a "proof" that the photos were fakes. These people probably took many snapshots themselves and never seemed to catch onto the basic fact that you set the exposure for what you're shooting at.

It reminds me of an incident that I witnessed years ago on the North Rim of the Canyon. The sun had set and and I was on an overlook watching ths stars come out. Before me was a huge black space which, an hour before, had been one of the most magnificent vistas on Earth, with the mighty Colorado River just a silver trickle a mile below. There was a couple nearby; one urged the other to get a picture of the Canyon. The second one demurred, saying it was pitch dark. The first one said, "Well, use your flash!"

reply to post by Off_The_Street


So you aren't apart of the Chemtrail program. Great.

The rest of your feel good stories about experience and history mean nothing. They prove nothing. They certainly don't prove chemtrails don't exist.

So, you not being apart of it means you know absolutely nothing about it. Just some old sshmo who thinks he knows it all.

People have SEEN a lot more than just "persistent" trails in the sky. That is where your fault lies.

It's only a matter of time. Demanding proof every other post is rather silly. Proof WILL come ... could take many years.

reply to post by dplum517


How do you expect proof when you don't have evidence? This is getting ridiculous, let the ego go, you were wrong about "chemtrails." No reason to get defensive about it.

I won't be waiting years for "chemtrail" evidence to surface, because I understand the scientific method. So looking for evidence to fit a conclusion that I've made (and am clinging to) wouldn't be appropriate.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by Off_The_Street

 

So, you not being apart of it means you know absolutely nothing about it. Just some old sshmo who thinks he knows it all.

Does this description not equally apply to you? So you are admitting, unless you ARE a part of it, that you know absolutely nothing about the subject you keep banging on about?

reply to post by dplum517


If you want to read up on the scientific method, I've provided a link.

Interesting stuff, it's a great way to know how we know things. How do you know there's "chemtrails" when there is no supporting evidence? Why did you come to that conclusion, without evidence?

Click here for more information.

reply to post by waynos

Does this description not equally apply to you?

Not necessarily.

I go off of a lot of personal observations. I have also read a lot on the topic concerning both sides. All the studies that have been done on "Contrails"decades ago and so on...

I have never claimed to know all about Chemtrails. I simply disagree 100% that every single trail in the sky is water vapor. Especially when we are talking about grids of trails in the sky.