Would You Still Be Religious?

reply to post by sacgamer25


you see, im not so sure about that. after growing up and getting somewhat of a grasp on life i feel like most people would think it strange or pointless to add this new religion into the mix. growing up, i never had christianity in my life. and though my parents were iskcon, it never rubbed off on me as anything more than bedtime stories i was told as a child. later in life i was invited to a youth group by a christian friend. thats when i got a firsthand look at all of these pre-teens and teens getting together and reading out of the bible and not questioning a thing. anyways the point is, after being exposed to the bible with no former knowledge of its contents it put me off of the idea of christianity even moreso,

also im starting to regret my generalization. i did not mean specifically introducing a person to the bible once they turn 18, i meant opening the door to all religion.(perhaps some sort of religious philosophy or religious studies class) i do not see why one could be considered right or better over another. it is all up to the individuals values, which is why i think its important that they be able to choose without a bias.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by angus1745

 

i must say i am mostly with you on this one.

to me, it is obvious that the bible was simply a tool used to govern society. to tell them what is right and wrong and to instill the fear that if they do wrong they will suffer for an eternity. what better way to ensure obedience.

if you read through a few of my posts you'll see the general concept im worried about is that the bible started off as a social engineering tool and it has transformed through the generations into an almost cult like status. people are christian but they do not know why or what it means. they were raised believing certain things and to question these things was wrong.

i've posted in other threads my simple picture.

memories + senses = ability to foresee and fear death = need for purpose = god

and knowing this, the ones in control can manipulate the believers to believe what they want

All of the attributes you give to the bible do not belong to the bible. The bible is not and was not a tool to govern. The book is the story of God and love. The entire book is a love story that encompasses the greatest promise ever promised.

It is man who has perverted the love story for his own selfish gain. It is man who has taught obedience in the form of fear as you portray fear. It is man who proclaims Christianity and refuses to follow the simplest and most fundamental commandment, to love. No one preaching war, money, hate, judgment knows the word of God. And the word of God is the bible.

Gandhi
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

reply to post by sacgamer25


well thats kind of what i was trying to say.

as you'll see in my previous posts, its not the religious or the 'real' christians that i am against. it is the wave after wave of young generations who go to church because its what their parents do and by the time they are old enough to make grown up decisions their views are skewed by their religion.

and yes it is man who is taking what the bible was meant to be and using it for his own gain. i probably didnt word the post you quoted very well. the morals and message of the bible are fine with me, it is the way that men twist it and use it to control the masses that i disagree with.

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx


Awnsers ?
Quoted from you msg:
1.)i am generalizing to christianity just for arguments sake because im not familiar with any other religious texts.
2.)the bible. do you think after reading it you would take it seriously and want to become a christian?
3.)i just think indoctrinating children ...
4.)you're 18, no religious experience whatsoever

Firstly, I do hear you and I understand what you are getting at...please see below:
1.) Are you familiar with the bible? if not, I do think you realize that its the only scripture thousands of years and billions of people later ? It has one truth...( but beware ) the truth is not the church
2.) The bible in this day and age might not mean much to you, that is why it will be simplified, and then the simplified version will steer you in the direction you are meant to go...
3.)I do not believe children(or adults) should be forced into religion AT ALL...you either have the questions and ask, or you don't care and do what you do without even thinking about it...(its like a magnet)
4.)If you do not have religious experience at all...see the following --> If you have the right truth.. you will be guarded ... and if you have children, what better way to have that protection over them, when you are down in the dumps and maybe stressed because someone close to you is sick or something, what can you offer them ?, and what will make you and them strong ?. What will protect you and your children from murderers, freak accidents..ect. You do NOT have to know the bible inside out, NO... It starts by believing. If you don't believe and never have, then you should be seeking the real truth...Scientists has recently discovered that there is other dimensions, this is old news and this proves realms that your physical eye cannot see...Some people can see spirits etc...anyways. It wont hurt to try it you know. you can for 1 week of your life talk to God. Talk to him verbally like you are talking to me and introduce yourself to Him. the rest will unfold. you don't have make any huge efforts. just try it. If nothing changes in your life....then you have your answer...

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx


Yes unfortunately for you, you did not have the experience I imagined in my reply. Your experience was most likely based on a church that one was teaching lies and two filled with people who called themselves Christians and had no idea what that meant. What I can tell you is the bible makes a promise to you. If you are from God the word is written on your heart. If you listen to that word you will return to God.

I wish you could understand and accept Christ as I do for this type of knowledge can fill you with something I cannot explain but I wish everyone had. Christ can eliminate the burdens of this world and fill you with greater purpose. So few people at church are filled with this it saddens me.

I believe you would have been more likely to gain this knowledge having never met a Christian and simply reading the bible for yourself. I would still challenge you to throw out all preconceived thoughts on the bible and God and read with an open mind.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by angus1745

 

i must say i am mostly with you on this one.

to me, it is obvious that the bible was simply a tool used to govern society. to tell them what is right and wrong and to instill the fear that if they do wrong they will suffer for an eternity. what better way to ensure obedience.

if you read through a few of my posts you'll see the general concept im worried about is that the bible started off as a social engineering tool and it has transformed through the generations into an almost cult like status. people are christian but they do not know why or what it means. they were raised believing certain things and to question these things was wrong.

i've posted in other threads my simple picture.

memories + senses = ability to foresee and fear death = need for purpose = god

and knowing this, the ones in control can manipulate the believers to believe what they want

I completly agree.

They are very like a cult, and these days mostly benign harmless often flaky but functional members of society. I have no problem with them. Kind of a harmless tradition if they would only just admit to themselves that's all it is and stop trying to pretend it's all real.

The main problem I have with it is the completely blinkered attitude about the bloody history it has. It's killed millions its enabled criminals to extort and murder at will for centuries. It's a very dark chapter in world history. It encouraged copycat religions and gave validity to even more oppresive religious society control systems. Variations on a scam. Not exactly something to celebrate and live your life by.

It needs to go. as do all it's spin off's. Into a museum of human gullibilty and evil antiquated control mechanisms. Nobody sane would ever pick that book up and believe every word blindly if it was widely known that it was just something we were tricked into beleiving in a long time ago.

I also have a problem with the way religious people react if you display disbeleif in their faith. They act genuinely offended and a bit embarrased. Usually you walk away feeling like you shouldnt have said anything feeling kind of sorry for them.

That's why I find the whole business as highly embarrassing, and at this point in our history detrimental to any hope we have of official alien contact any time soon. As long as there is hoardes of frothing idiots flying around killing folk, blowing things up, maiming and believing in fairy tales and living heir lives by ancient books written by criminals to exploit and control. Blindly worshiping an utterly non-existant omnipotent supernatural entity simply because they were brought up to there is no way any Alien culture would see this mess and want any involvement or contact with us.

The church long ago lost it's malevolence and govermental powers and is now as you say just a very large cult. The criminal element that fuelled it long having shifted into politics, wherever the power and the money is.

I firmly beleive the racketeers that origionally exploited and spread the Christianity scam are very similar to the corrupt judges and lawyers that run amok unchecked today. The romans had the right idea with the lions.

We need to put this bible hooey behind us all, stamp out all this muslim nonsense too. The traditions are harmless but children need to be taught that it is only that and isnt ingrained in any aspect of reality. That is why this still perists. people pass it on they drive it into childrens minds as unquestionable fact.

Perhaps alien contact is the one and only thing that would convince some of these people that the bible isnt real, even with that I think many would still cling onto it. It's a convenient security blanket for the mentally unstable. any problem can be magically erased by prayer, plus when you die, you actually dont ! That's like the catch all answer and perfect way to run away from lifes problems. Instead of facing problems we were supposed to just give in to this blind belief and give money to the church of course. That'll do it.

So to some degree the church still functiions as criminal organisation dealing lies to the gullible to garner donations. I think huge sums of money are being scammed from the elderly every day by these people completly unchecked and unquestioned. The bible is nasty.Its a blood drenched tool for manipulation by criminals and thugs through the ages. This cycle of blind beleif passed down thorigh generations needs to be broken. I think the entire global population needs to take a step back and look at how damaging these idiiotic beliefs have truly been. They need to be consigned to history those who live their lives by them need to rethink and get a firmer grasp on reality

reply to post by Msngr11


actually i was diagnosed with aplastic anemia at the beginning of last year. its basically leukemia but without the cancer cells. i had it for quite some time before i was diagnosed and not to sound dramatic but i surely could have died anywhere between then and when i finally got my bone marrow transplant. even now there are risks because of the graft vs host disease i have.

the point in telling you is i had a very close friend who was christian and very religious. one night after much refusal he go me on my on my knees to pray with him. i didnt say anything myself but we knelt quietly while he spoke outloud a prayer for my safety and for my health to return and had me repeat with him. this is as verbal with god i've gotten.

he seemed a bit moved by the whole thing afterward. i went on as if nothing had happened, halfway humoring him saying oh yeah that was cool, or whatever,

so after that, i eventually got a bone marrow transplant and have slowly been getting better. is that because of god? because my friend prayed for me? some might say yes, its a true sign from above. but i see it as life. its just what happens. what about all of the other people who have similar circumstances and end up dying?

the fact is, nothing special happened, no higher power intervened. but if i had been a christian i sure as heck would have thought otherwise. to me, it just seems like a way to cover up our fear of death.

if anything i gained a higher respect for the cosmos and the power it has to begin or end these simple lives we take for granted. i didnt need a god to fall back on because i already had the universe holding me. i think my lack of fear of death is what adds to my atheism.

so its all up to interpretation and how you take the 'signs' you see. life or god? i choose life. reality. love. freedom.

reply to post by sacgamer25


i believe it is all relative. i have this overwhelming feeling of love for the universe and everything in it. yet i lack this christ you speak of. all i need is life because to me it is the most important thing. i dont require a higher power to look up to or to rely on. i have the universe. i am so happy with everything. the good and the bad, its all the same, its just life.

i want my children to be able to enjoy life for what it truly is as well. i dont want them to ever be afraid of doing what others think is wrong because their religion teaches it.

Originally posted by angus1745

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by angus1745

 

i must say i am mostly with you on this one.

to me, it is obvious that the bible was simply a tool used to govern society. to tell them what is right and wrong and to instill the fear that if they do wrong they will suffer for an eternity. what better way to ensure obedience.

I think the entire global population needs to take a step back and look at how damaging these idiiotic beliefs have truly been. They need to be consigned to history those who live their lives by them need to rethink and get a firmer grasp on reality

I would like to understand how believing that love is the ultimate command could be considered idiotic. I would agree that the way most people Christians act and what they say the bible says is idiotic. But I promise if it sounds idiotic it is man that has made it this way. I have read for myself and I find nothing damaging or idiotic about the message in the bible.

reply to post by angus1745


i like the way you think. i agree on everything im just trying to not get too militant in this thread because theres a very fine line between what i consider the 'good' and the 'bad' types of religion.

alien contact would be a 'godsend' for us non believers

ive often thought of how religions would rationalize it and it sucks because it would be so easy for them to make up a new story. or to simply say 'who are we to question the will of god' or what have you.

also i like the idea of having separate 'faith schools' but that just leads to segregation and prejudice so there are very few solutions i have found. it is too big to simply do away with as some countries have tried. but i think somehow with enough education, understanding and reason, the human mind can be pointed towards truth.

reply to post by sacgamer25


love itself is in no way idiotic. it is the greatest thing of all. it is how people go about getting to this love and all of the extra baggage that comes with it which i do not like.

love is love, why complicate it with religion. earlier we were talking about the good morals the bible contains. so why not just teach good morals.

i feel that religion is just another way to segregate the masses. there are many conflicts that could be avoided if there were no religion involved.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

i believe it is all relative. i have this overwhelming feeling of love for the universe and everything in it. yet i lack this christ you speak of. all i need is life because to me it is the most important thing. i dont require a higher power to look up to or to rely on. i have the universe. i am so happy with everything. the good and the bad, its all the same, its just life.

i want my children to be able to enjoy life for what it truly is as well. i dont want them to ever be afraid of doing what others think is wrong because their religion teaches it.

At least you said their religion teaches, because the bible surely does not teach anything but love is true. I believe you are closer to Christ than you know. Christ is love, love is Christ. According to the bible you can't have one without the other. Most Christians even the pastors don't understand this. Most Christians will tell you that you must accept Christ to go to heaven. I say if you have love and follow it you have accepted Christ even though you don’t realize you have.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

love itself is in no way idiotic. it is the greatest thing of all. it is how people go about getting to this love and all of the extra baggage that comes with it which i do not like.

love is love, why complicate it with religion. earlier we were talking about the good morals the bible contains. so why not just teach good morals.

i feel that religion is just another way to segregate the masses. there are many conflicts that could be avoided if there were no religion involved.

You are correct. The bible predicts religion will be exactly what it is today in revelations, because man will pervert the word of God, for power and money.

reply to post by sacgamer25


well i may not agree on what its called but if love=christ and we've found love/christ, i am happy because i think the world needs all the real love it can get.

i dont mean to be so disagreeable its just the way my mind has been wired. but i can always agree to disagree if i can see the passion behind the motives.



sorry if that didnt make sense, im tired i just fixed the errors

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx


Hiya
So the experience with your friend you had meant nothing or didnt make you a true believer ?...if that is the case, and you didn't even in the slightest part of your soul speak to God then and there, even if it was the 1st and only time ever. Then it confirms my complete message to you. what I saw already happened ...I wish you the best of luck in recovering with the cosmos, death should be something to look forward to not be afraid of... I personally cant wait...

I walk alone. I dont belong to any church group or organization...
Cheerio

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx


I would like to bring our discussion back to the topic. I believe if anyone would read the bible without any preconceived notions they would understand the word like I do. You may not find anyone else who will explain the bible the way I do.

My quest for understanding of the bible came with both openness and a challenge. I would be open to whatever the word said but God had to prove to me that nothing that was distasteful about religion was found in the book.
God gave me a wisdom and understanding that I have yet to find in another Christian.

The closest person I can find is Gandhi and he was not a Christian but he did believe in love as the only truth. And most Christians would have to tell you that he is in hell based on their interpretation. But I say he walked with Christ much of his life even though he did not know it, based on my interpretation.

If I could prove my interpretation is correct by disproving the other interpretation simply using the bible would you be more inclined to listen? If your answer is yes than the word taken with no preconceived notions can answer this question and many others.

reply to post by Msngr11


it in no way made me a true believer in christianity or the bible because there was no reason to.

it would be specious for me to say i got better simply because that prayer. i also happen to go to the number 1 cancer center in america and have amazing doctors. also i have a strong will to live.

it humbled me to the universe. i know i am not as important as i may think. the ego is the real killer here. i think man's ego is what makes him think he has a purpose in the first place which then leads to a god.

either way, thank you for your input and goodluck and godbless! (not being sarcastic, but if i do have any stake in anything to do with god, i express my love and goodwill towards you!)

reply to post by sacgamer25


if the word could prove this than yes, i'd definitely be open to hearing it.

but i still ask why not any of the other religions? why does the feeling of love that they might invoke get reverted to christ and not their own deitys?

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

well i may not agree on what its called but if love=christ and we've found love/christ, i am happy because i think the world needs all the real love it can get.

i dont mean to be so disagreeable its just the way my mind has been wired. but i can always agree to disagree if i can see the passion behind the motives.

sorry if that didnt make sense, im tired i just fixed the errors

edit on 10/29/2011 by xxblackoctoberxx because: (no reason given)

It made perfect since, and it matters not to me how you came to follow love only that you continue to follow love. I will leave the rest up to God.

"Season of the Witch" became available to stream on Netflix just yesterday. In the movie, well, don't read this if you don't want a spoiler, but anyway......

DO NOT READ FURTHER UNLESS YOU WANT A SPOILER OF THE MOVIE!!!





In the end, the whole premise is to protect the book of Solomon. But the ritual for casting out the witch is surprisingly not the ritual that they need. The priest suddenly resorts to a total exorcism of a demon.


In response to your post about suddenly seeing the bible, I would say that it is a HOW TO book of sorts, regardless of religion.

I have never taken the bible literally, but I know that many stories have been passed down from one generation to the next, all the way back to biblical times, and the bible is a great source for do-gooders.

Having a belief in a higher power makes human beings understand that life will prevail after we die.

Joseph Campbell suggested that man invented God due to man's fear of mortality. He also noticed that in ALL religions, there are always 3 things in common: A savior, a higher power, and prayer. Something like that.