Starting to have my doubts

Just to clear confusion: Some may have misunderstood what I was trying to post.
I Do Believe Aliens are Real and are on Other Planets, I am having doubts rather they are visiting earth.

I have been a "follower" of this subject for a while. I still believe it's possible we are being visited, by aliens, but I'm starting to have my doubts.
I have a whole collection of books on topics regarding UFO's, aliens etc, in my bookshelf and starting to add them to my ipad. I have watched all the ufo documentaries, movies. I check different sites for the latest UFO news.
So I consider myself pretty well read and up to date on subject.

The problem I'm having is I starting to have a issue with the lack of "undebunkable" claims. In all of I have read its seems 4 stories/claims/cases really standout to a good portion of the UFO Community.

Roswell..
The Betty & Barney Hill Case.
The Phoenix Lights.
Aurora Texas Incident (I'm 50-50 on this)
Maybe there are others, that I have missed.
After that in my opinion everything see to kinda BS, or unreliable.

We have people like Alex Collier who up with stuff like Councils and Alien Races, who are proven hoaxers despite what some want to believe.
Billy Meier, etc
We have people who come out with disclosure dates while promoting their latest book or website.
Bias TV shows who have a obvious agenda, who will probably say that the disgusting pizza I hate back when I was 2 years old was created by Ancient Aliens.

Sure we have many Researchers who are legit.
I just see a lack of progress in this subject. Correct me if wrong but there have been no real undebunkable sightings lately. The Modern History of this topic is about 60-100 years old and there is still no smoking gun.
Other then 4 cases I Posted above they are really what keeps this topic alive, in my opinion there maybe others that I'm not aware of.

It's just kinda hard for me to believe that nothing has been leaked. There are still no photos, no videos of ufo's or aliens. We have a bunch of Youtube videos taken in the middle of the night by people who happen to be randomly looking at the sky with Night Vision on.
There are videos of Planes, Birds, Meteors, Space Debris/Junk, blinking and fuzzy lights that could be explained as anything.
Birds flying in formation, that some claim is a mothership
Balloons
Chinese Lanterns

Hoaxed Videos such as the Jerusalem UFO made by a known Hoaxer. That was so obviously a hoax that other paranormal sites banned members who would repost it.

The Fact that people would think that a Alien Orb, or Technology would be hovering over one of the most Holy Places and busiest places in the world and there are only 2-3 videos each with obvious differences, was ridiculous.

There is the Haiti Ufo which should not have 10+ Million Hits. People took Seriously until some realized that all the trees were the same.
There Videos of the Capture Roswell Gray Alien in a Turtle Neck, that have managed to get hundreds of thousands of hits. Which is still being debated rather it is real or not on youtube.
95% of videos of fuzzy light, with a shaky camera, xfiles type of music, or a over dramatic person, or bad actor.

There are Pictures of Hoaxes, Light's, in the sky that could interpreted as anything, Blimps, Planes, etc.

There are tutorials on the net on how to "create a good ufo sighting video". There is software to help do that.


Over the Last 60-100 years there has been very little legit progress. Very little is undebunkable. There are few VERIFIABLE stories. Hell even I have debunked my own sighting.
Very little progress. A good portion of these sightings have a earthly explanation...
There has yet to be that one great photo, that one undebunkable video, that one UNEXPLAINABLE signal from another civilization. It makes me wonder if I'm on the "right side" of things.

There is alot of :

What If

He Said/ She Said

I know he/she did/saw

I wasn't there but

COINCIDENCES

I want to believe.

I Think.

Wild Claims


Someone else in another topic said they think this whole topic is starting to feel like it being ran by children playing video games. It's truly feels that way at times. with the talk of Space Families, Aliens Wars.
I've been Following this topic for 5-6 years, like I posted I know the claims, a lot of the history, I'm a geek on the subject.

With the lack of concrete evidence it's seriously getting hard for me to continue to believe.
There is very little
I Know
This is Conclusive Proof
Without a Shadow Of A Doubt.
Concrete Proof


I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade. (I know it sounds that way)
I don't mean to insult anyone.


Just my opinion.. As usual.

I think anyone that takes the topic seriously would agree with you on at least a good amount of your post. Unfortunately, the more advance technology gets the more advance the hoaxes will get as well. The part that baffles me is the testimony of the military, government and NASA personnel. What would some of these folks have to gain, such as the Air Force folks that testified last year (Salas and co.)? And is it more believable that we've developed all this technology on our own in the last 50 years or did we have a little help? I agree with you on no substantial proof, but it's still fun to think "what if"....

reply to post by StarPeace


Doubts?? How so??
Oh, ok, I see. You want a big fat nasty alien to reveal himself to you. Unfortunately for you, they have folks that look like you and me that run their errands for them, so you probably won't see anything.

Oh yeah, and the fake alien videos flooding the internet are going to make it easier for you to debunk it all, as they carry out their evil plans, unimpeded. So once they use their mind control technology to take over governments, so that they run up large debts fighting war after war with fabricated excuses that they then later claim are false..

What causes you to assume that these "aliens" you seek are benevolent and don't wish to harm you? Those peace-loving space aliens you dream about that land in the city center and say some crap like "show me your leader" probably don't exist.

Its helluva lot easier to carry out evil sinister plans when you don't exist. So its not that there's no aliens, but it's just that "you're not supposed to know".

reply to post by StarPeace


This galaxy, the Milky Way, has roughly 400 Billion stars in it.
The visible universe, has anywhere from 200 - 500 Billion galaxies, with a rough average of 200 - 500 billion stars in each one.

for sake of ease, let's just say there's 300 Billion Stars in every galaxy and 300 Billion galaxies for a middle ground number.

300,000,000,000 x 300,000,000,000 = 90,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars.

Chances of there being intelligent life on more than just this one planet at this one star, against numbers like that, are statistically higher than a probability of there not being any other intelligent life 'out there'.

Unfortunately, do to the sheer enormity of massive scale in distances when dealing with the universe, and the sheer number of places to visit and go looking for other life, the statistical probability of any other life finding any other intelligent life to shake tentacles with, abduct, or take over, is statistically small to the point of improbability.

For instance; if right now, we could travel anywhere in the blink of an eye, at the speed of imagination itself, we've got 400 Billion stars in our galaxy alone to look at.
There are 31,556,926 seconds in a YEAR, and if we took only one second to look at each and every star in our galaxy, not the universe, just our galaxy, it would take 12,675 years.

Use your imagination to consider how long it would take if we traveled at the speed of light or below.
Even at 10x, or 100x the speed of light, the scale of time involved would be astronomical.

Thus, yeah, there's probably intelligent life out there, but, chances of meeting it are improbable.

knowledge and intelligence are two different things. if you really want to make your mind up, put all those books aside and view the night skies yourself. they're everywhere.

reply to post by Rekrul


I've been looking at the sky my entire life, and have yet to see anything unexplained, or unexplainable outside of natural phenomenon, satellites, and man-made aircraft.

I know the visible planets and am well versed in experience with meteors, including the odd bolide, have seen iridium and regular satellite flares, and the ISS too.

Never have I seen anything that could qualify as a UFO, and I've been watching the skies a very long time, not just at night either, but during the day too for skydiving.

It would seem the more educated and familiar someone is about the sky, and what's 'in' it, the less likely they are to ever see anything unexplained. Strange how that works.

Caveman say sky make noise and light and it scary because gods are angry
Meteorologist say, dude, chill, it's just thunder and lightning.

A part of me hopes there is something else out there, but the logical side of me keeps screaming hoax. As was stated, the more advanced our technology gets, the easier it gets to fake. On the flipside it also gets easier to intercept/make contact with whatever may be out there. At this point no video can truly be trusted to be completely ET. Therefore the skeptics remain skeptical, and the believers do the same. It's a constant tug-o-war where no one side gains advantage. If something "bigger" than us is trying to make contact I imagine they would also be able to let us know their presence, and not with some shaky Youtube video. Until then I'll keep hoping.
Great post

reply to post by allstarninja


I get ya, I'm in that position.

I'm doing similar to what you are doing there, I've seen and read pretty much everything about UFOs.

Theses days I'm thinking about taking it to the next step.. crazy ideas like buying a house overlooking the city where I live, allowing for me to setup a camera system to scout the skies.

But then you start thinking about the dozens of things you could add to such a system, the money involved in it along with the time...and the truth is, if I had the money, I'd do it.

You've got to admit, it's a pretty cool topic and hobby.

I too have had my doubts since seeing the UAV technology progress. I can buy a Parrot AR.Drone quadricopter at brookstone and probably fool the masses in my local neighborhood. The experimental aircraft that have been around since the story of flight could account for even the best ufo sightings. Is there something going on outside of the box. Probably. Is there much proof of the phenomenon. No.

With everybody holding a camera phone these days you'd expect a lot more activity. Even on the visitation/ abduction side of the story.
Although I think there might be a couple of aliens at work as their personality lacks a human quality.

reply to post by nineix


Awesome,

Loved theses stats. Very strong point.

Only place I blinked at was the 12,000 something years it would take to "scout" the planets.

It's not out of the question that a sufficiently advanced civilization could have individuals that live for way more than that. Or to simply have 12,000 probes built to do the job and do it in a year. Especially one that travels instantly using imagination, hehe.

Possible solution:
It's common in the whole alien, UFO arena when it comes to alien abductees, that alien abductees report having ongoing long term contact with the aliens that abduct them, sometimes on a regular basis.

Seek out someone that is an alien abductee, and date them.
If aliens are coming back to pick them up on a regular basis, and you just happen to entangle your life with theirs, then, you at least have a focus point of where the aliens are going to show up eventually, if they are indeed real.

reply to post by StarPeace


Based on the cases and sources you mention, it sounds like you've gotten caught up in the less analytic and less serious side of UFO "research," and more caught up in the ATS and youtube circus aspect of UFO's. No wonder you'd have doubts....

Why not start over, with the *serious* primary sources? Like all of the Grudge and Bluebook reports, Special Report 14, the Condon Report, McDonald, Vallee, Hynek, Sturrock, etc.?

Forget youtube and pics! There is no way to prove any single vid or pic as "not a hoax." The answers are not there. A video or picture will only be proof when multiple people catch something close enough with sufficient clarity (not likely with today's technology), from multiple angles....

And the very point of debunking is exactly what you say: NO case is "undebunkable." The debunker's explanations don't have to make sense or be reasonably plausible; they just have to be only very *remotely plausible*. Anyone of average intelligence can do it.

And there are actually plenty of cases in the last 10 years that have not been *reasonably* explained by skeptics or debunkers.

Who thinks Stephenville or the UFO Over Illinois case (the one with multiple police officers in multiple adjacent towns, at least one officer reporting incredible accelerations) have been properly and reasonably explained? They certainly have not. Not unless you accept some of the flimsiest debunker assumptions. And those cases aren't even the strongest recent cases, but are just two with high visibility that I happened to read a bit about today.

Originally posted by Rekrul
knowledge and intelligence are two different things. if you really want to make your mind up, put all those books aside and view the night skies yourself. they're everywhere.

I see stars, planets and planes, birds and satellites. I'm not seeing anything that yells aliens are visiting earth.

reply to post by StarPeace

I know how hard it must be. Take heart. When you see one you will know it. I did.

You obviously have given a considerable amount of time and thought to the subject. I can see that you have a great deal of desire to know the truth about it. That desire is like a pressure inside your head. Be patient. Life is life long and sometimes we yearn for things we can feel but can't quite reach. It will come to us.

Life is alien to this planet, Life is from somewhere else. Life came here. It is all around us.

We are but one planet in but one galaxy filled with life. Find a dark place away from city lights and gaze up at the stars. Yearn for an answer. Wonder about it. You will discover that you already know the answer.

reply to post by nineix


Star!!

I just had this discussion with someone over this past weekend; they had stated that they do not 'believe' in aliens.

Me, with my fascination of the cosmos, had to lay down the facts:

1. I began by telling him to look up at the stars on a clear night, and then point to whichever one he thought was the closest. Then, I told him that if he is correct, then he is pointing at Proxima Centauri, which is a 20,000 year trip from Earth.....

2. Next, I told him that we are in the Milky Way galaxy, 1 of billions in the universe. I then told him to contemplate LIGHT SPEED, which is 186,000 miles per second. I then told him that if he could travel at the speed of light, it would STILL take him 100,000 years to get from one end of the Milky Way galaxy to the other....at then at that same LIGHT SPEED, it'd take 2.3 million years to reach the Andromeda Galaxy, the NEAREST galaxy to ours.....

Before I went any further on fun-facts about space, I watched his facial expression. He was in awe. He stated that he didn't know those things, and now he needed to rethink his position on aliens

I said, quoting Carl Sagan, "Earth is a pale, blue dot".... in fact, once you travel beyond Jupiter, you can't even see Earth anymore.....

I gave him the analogy of the ant in the jungle (as was given on the Science Channel):

"There are ants in the jungle.....if one ant was at the far end of the jungle, which would take a long time for you to get to, how important to you would it be to travel to the ant, stop and try to communicate to it that you exist? It wouldn't be important to you at all; in fact you would stump on the ant if it is in your way. Why? Because you are more advanced than it is, and you need nothing from it".........

He still stared in awe.

I asked him if he still thought that no other life existed in the universe..... he said, :You are making me re-consider. I just didn't know about that kind of distance being in space. It makes more sense to me."

See, I find that the more a person is knowledgeable about space and the TRUE insignificance of Earth, they stop seeing themselves as the pinnacle of the universe, and begin to rethink their position on extraterrestrial life.

Originally posted by nineix
reply to post by Rekrul

 

I've been looking at the sky my entire life, and have yet to see anything unexplained, or unexplainable outside of natural phenomenon, satellites, and man-made aircraft.

I know the visible planets and am well versed in experience with meteors, including the odd bolide, have seen iridium and regular satellite flares, and the ISS too.

Never have I seen anything that could qualify as a UFO, and I've been watching the skies a very long time, not just at night either, but during the day too for skydiving.

It would seem the more educated and familiar someone is about the sky, and what's 'in' it, the less likely they are to ever see anything unexplained. Strange how that works.

Caveman say sky make noise and light and it scary because gods are angry
Meteorologist say, dude, chill, it's just thunder and lightning.

edit on 23-10-2011 by nineix because: (no reason given)

When we look into the skies from our planet, you are correct; more than likely, we are going to see man-made craft.

But that's not what the OP is conveying.....they are saying that more than likely, we are IT.

Does mankind fly craft over the planets in the Andromeda Galaxy? No. We can't even get there. (2.3 million light year journey)

Does that mean that man-kind does not exist? No.

See my point?

reply to post by ButterCookie


That my friend is a beautiful story. I commend you for opening all of our eyes as to how big the universe is. But you see the problem is It is so far to another galaxy it is hard to comprehend that we could be visited by anyone traveling at those distances.

Originally posted by nineix
reply to post by StarPeace

 

For instance; if right now, we could travel anywhere in the blink of an eye, at the speed of imagination itself, we've got 400 Billion stars in our galaxy alone to look at.
There are 31,556,926 seconds in a YEAR, and if we took only one second to look at each and every star in our galaxy, not the universe, just our galaxy, it would take 12,675 years.

WOW man. Thank you for that quick tour of the Milky Way. I never saw it that way before. I guess I'm going to be busy in the future.

Originally posted by StarPeace

Originally posted by Rekrul
knowledge and intelligence are two different things. if you really want to make your mind up, put all those books aside and view the night skies yourself. they're everywhere.

I see stars, planets and planes, birds and satellites. I'm not seeing anything that yells aliens are visiting earth.

What is this human-fascination with feeling like any life outside our planet WANTS to visit us?

We have to come off this arrogancy, thinking we are the most sough-after species in the universe.

The whole 'Why have the never PROVED themselves TO US?

Remember, you live on a pale blue dot, barely visible past Jupiter. And who all have we Earthlings proven our existence to???

Originally posted by ButterCookie

Originally posted by nineix
reply to post by Rekrul

 

I've been looking at the sky my entire life, and have yet to see anything unexplained, or unexplainable outside of natural phenomenon, satellites, and man-made aircraft.

I know the visible planets and am well versed in experience with meteors, including the odd bolide, have seen iridium and regular satellite flares, and the ISS too.

Never have I seen anything that could qualify as a UFO, and I've been watching the skies a very long time, not just at night either, but during the day too for skydiving.

It would seem the more educated and familiar someone is about the sky, and what's 'in' it, the less likely they are to ever see anything unexplained. Strange how that works.

Caveman say sky make noise and light and it scary because gods are angry
Meteorologist say, dude, chill, it's just thunder and lightning.

edit on 23-10-2011 by nineix because: (no reason given)

But that's not what the OP is conveying.....they are saying that more than likely, we are IT.

I'm trying to say that I'm having my doubt that aliens are visiting earth.
Of course I believe they may be real on other planets..


edit: lol I'll update my OP with that.