You deserve what?

reply to post by 83war3


You somewhat got the jist. I am not saying we should not help our fellow man. I am not saying we abstain from charity. What I am saying is there is no guarantee for any of us for anything. If people would just step back and realize the movie set we are on, it would not take long for us to reclaim our country and our freedoms. Until our mentality changes from a jealous one, we will never fix the problems we are faced with.

Divide and conquer

TPTB do it so well, and you are not even aware it is happening to you. Next time you watch a movie, or a TV show, really pay attention. I mean REALLY pay attention. It doesn't take long for the subtle messages to shine through. You and I are being played and TPTB are the coaches. As long as we fight each other and think someone owes us something we will forever be the slaves. Until we accept that our destiny is in our hands we will forever be slaves.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

If you are content to not play the game, then that is your choice. Not everyone wants to play, and that is ok. If you are not content with what you make then it is also your choice to enter into an agreement for employment with someone else. No one is forcing you to accept anything. No jobs to move to in your area? Move to an area that does. That's what I did. I don't have to leave my future in the hands of someone else. I make the choices, I decide where and for whom I will work and for what wage. When I feel I am being taken advantage of, I ask for a raise. If it is justified, and not granted I leave for a better position. Quite simple.

Well first many people do not have the freedom you have. Its nice to be able to move from place to place but not everyone wants to leave their friends, home and family.

So we have to uproot our entire lives, leave our friends and family, so we can enter into a corrupt economy that turns our hunger into a debt? A debt we have to work to repay. Working for food and shelter, hmmm sounds a lot like what African people went through for 400 years in America. Slavery. And just because we can pick our favorite flavor of slavery doesn't mean we really have a choice. If you gave me three bowls of dog sh*t and said I had to eat one to get food and shelter you better believe I'll eat the least sh*tty pile of sh*t. But that doesnt mean I had a choice.

Why is it that our needs (family, home, food and shelter) are put BEHIND the economy's needs? Why do we satisfy the need of the economy BEFORE we satisfy our own human needs? Needs you have, needs I have, needs that everyone has. Why does the economy DESERVE our undying loyalty?

The way I translate this is, if you can't defend yourself against certain pressures or threats, then by all rights, when that pressure or threat occurs, when your identity gets stolen and your credit is ruined, when your car is stolen, your home invaded and robbed while you're at work, and/or you and/or your family is victimized, exploited, or taken advantage of in any way, you have NO recourse.

All those homeless people without jobs that can't get a job for lack of a support infrastructure under your regime have to survive somehow, right?

All those societal props like law enforcement, insurance, unemployment, educational financial aide, can just go away right?
Survival of the fittest?

That's what I'm hearing.

If that's what it is, then, sorry mate, I'm not buying.

reply to post by doctornamtab


Why? Because we allow it to. We have been conditioned for over 60 years now. Prior to that the US existed as I have stated. You made your own way, you fended for yourself, you took care of your own. After the FED act, people figured out how to make money by doing nothing but betting on the success or failure of others (stock market). People flocked to the cities for a "job" at a factory because they "thought" life was better for them than the farming life. Guess what? It wasn't! How do you control a population? Control it's money, control it's food. Do you really think the great depression was an accident? If so, I have a bridge in New York I'd like to sell you. They gained control of the banks, the corporations and the farms. So here we are, a product of consumerism that has been hell bend for leather since the industrial revolution began.

reply to post by haarvik


Right, we're totally on the same page there.

But why are you saying that its wrong to demand more rights from our leaders? This is all we are doing when we say we deserve free food and shelter. Its securing a human right so the banks and corps cannot control us through money and work.

reply to post by nineix


There are usually two types of homeless. There are exceptions, but for now I will focus on the two primary ones.

1. These are the people who truly do not want to participate in society. Drug and alcohol addicts, mental issues or other social extremes. They chose to just drop out of society and do not want any responsibility.

2. People who lost their jobs and their homes. Usually former middle class, some lower class. They bought into the whole American dream and was sucked into the consumerism mentality. Bought a house they could not afford, bought those new cars, ran up the credit card on cruises and new electronics, with the intention of paying it back on payday, but it never happened.

So now people are looking for a scape goat. Someone is to blame for their misfortune, because they did everything right. Yes, you did everything right according to the boob tube, not common sense. I know what it's like, Ive been there. I know what it's like to have to scavenge back road garbage dumps to get enough metal to cash in for dinner. I know what it's like to wonder if you'll be able to stay in your house for another month. I know what it's like to have a penny in your pocket and not know when you will eat again. I also know it was my fault that I was there, and no one elses. We make choices, good or bad we make them. Until we own up to it things will never change. Oh sure, the economy will recover in about two years and people will forget about all of this and we'll be right back here in twenty or so years. History truly does repeat itself.

reply to post by doctornamtab


It's not so much people are asking for these things, it's the mentality and the methods that come off as an entitlement mentality. People truly need to understand that we have the power to change things. Let me bold that:

People truly need to understand that we have the power to change things

How? With your wallet. It is so simple, and yet so elusive. If you take away their money, how are they more powerful than you? I mean really, OWS? They sound like a bunch of spoiled rich kids and hippies expecting a handout. Nothing will change until you take the power away. And truly, as long as we have a consumeristic, instant gratification society none of it will ever change. Sure the players will, and for a while they might pacify us, but it really will never change unless we do.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

No, they are not. If it were, you would be born with it. It would be written down for you to have. You are only guaranteed the opportunity to obtain them. Big difference. Being human does not give us any more special rights than any animal. just because we can reason does not automatically guarantee us anything.

All of the rights you have right now were, at one time, not rights that were "written down". They became rights because The People decided they should be. So if The People decide that food, water, shelter, and healthcare are basic rights, then it will be written down.

Somebody with this fear of increasing the standard of basic human existence seems to be more afraid of basic change. America is whatever Americans want it to be. If we make amendments that secure basic human necessities as human rights then it would be written down. Would you still be upset by it? Heck, it almost happened after WW2. It could happen.

reply to post by Cuervo


Yes, I probably would. Why? Because unless there was a stipulation that in order to qualify for said rights you would have to contribute to society, people would take advantage of it. Look at us now. We have an unofficial unemployment rate of 20% and yet most of our country cannot function. Give people those basics and how many more would drop out? What would the rate be then? 30%, 40%? At some point people have to be responsible for themselves.

reply to post by haarvik


I gave you stars and a flag this is awesome and the fact that it went from the word deserve to entitlement is grand as well. I am truely sorry for your misfortune, i've been there done that REALLY dont wanna do it again so i pinch pennies till the cry. too bad those pennies are starting to goose their own pennies. I did apply for assistance when the going got tough but i also think ive given back just as much as I borrowed.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

It's not so much people are asking for these things, it's the mentality and the methods that come off as an entitlement mentality. People truly need to understand that we have the power to change things. Let me bold that:

People truly need to understand that we have the power to change things

How? With your wallet. It is so simple, and yet so elusive. If you take away their money, how are they more powerful than you? I mean really, OWS? They sound like a bunch of spoiled rich kids and hippies expecting a handout. Nothing will change until you take the power away. And truly, as long as we have a consumeristic, instant gratification society none of it will ever change. Sure the players will, and for a while they might pacify us, but it really will never change unless we do.

I think thats a part of it. And I think many OWSers have protested with their wallets. I have. But where's it gotten me? But its going to take more than 20,000 people to change things if you go about it this way. However, 20,000 people can demand more rights and more access to the money that was stolen from them.

The Wallet Protest needs all the soccer moms, hillbillies, socialites, poor immigrants, rich spoiled college kids poor single mothers to all come togehter to protest with their wallets. I'm not holding out hope for ALL these people to change their ways. They've made the consumer life too convenient, it sucks but its true. People are handcuffed by their lack of money and lack of time. And its all set up to be that way. To leave us no choices.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Cuervo

 

Yes, I probably would. Why? Because unless there was a stipulation that in order to qualify for said rights you would have to contribute to society, people would take advantage of it. Look at us now. We have an unofficial unemployment rate of 20% and yet most of our country cannot function. Give people those basics and how many more would drop out? What would the rate be then? 30%, 40%? At some point people have to be responsible for themselves.

The stipulation would be that you are an American (or wherever we are talking about) and a human. Do you have stipulations in order to exercise free speech? Do you need to clear a certain income to own a fire arm? Do they kick you out of public lands if you aren't rich? Will the police not come and help you if you didn't make enough money the year before?

To say that we deserve those rights but it should stop where YOU decide to draw the line is a bit hypocritical. It's called "WE The People" for a reason. WE decide. And it's looking more and more likely that We The People are siding with the sentiments of good ole' FDR more and more everyday.

reply to post by Cuervo


The you sir, subscribe to communism. A country cannot feed and house it's citizens if no one is contributing to the economics of that country. Simply put, no money, no food no housing. Has nothing to do with right or wrong, has to do with what is realistically possible. You are living in fantasy land.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Cuervo

 

Yes, I probably would. Why? Because unless there was a stipulation that in order to qualify for said rights you would have to contribute to society, people would take advantage of it. Look at us now. We have an unofficial unemployment rate of 20% and yet most of our country cannot function. Give people those basics and how many more would drop out? What would the rate be then? 30%, 40%? At some point people have to be responsible for themselves.

But think of it this way. 20% of the workforce, 1 out of 5 people, do not have to work in order for us to move products, trade with other nations and do all the other amazing things society does for people. Without even trying we are providing for everyone without this 20% working. Thats without even trying!

We provide for everony with 20% of the population not working. Also add the people in prison because they get free food and shelter too. What did THEY do to deserve it?

And the illusion that a man is an island and can survive all by himself is not even a valid point. We all need each other. We are interconnected economically, politically, socially. We cannot survive with everyone just looking out for themselves. You provide for your immediate family (kids, siblings, spouses, parents). Well many people consider the whole human race as family and this is the basis for the belief that we should provide for everyone in that human family.

People have always come together in groups for the protection that togetherness affords. Free food and shelter is just an extension of this basic tenet of togetherness, namely looking out for each other.

reply to post by doctornamtab


No it doesn't cuz honestly the average soccer mom doesn't do anything but drive kids and do grocery shopping get her nails and hair done and for all intensive purposes the government is using the ows to there advantage. all in the name of business baby. so by standing out there beating your drums itching bout not having a job and a hair from homelessness the guy that walked past you 45 minutes ago just got a job that secured his futurea little longer. these college kids EXPECT that they will have a job immediately and wont take anything less than what they majored in. didn't they take economics or something. nobody EVER jobs right into the perfect field they have to OMG they have to WORK for it.

reply to post by haarvik


So don't be calling the cops or for other assistance when the hungry hoards decide to burn your house down, rape your daughters and wife and leave you gutted for the dogs to eat.

You want a dog eat dog society? fine! You want anarchy? great! We'll bring it to you...it's a numbers game.

No rules, no limits, no excuses.... Survival of the fittest is fine with me! I welcome the breakdown of society where only the strong will survive. The old and weak should be sacrificed to the strong so that their genes can bring on a new and better race of humans.


Personally I don't think you will last very long.... Crybabies never do..........

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Cuervo

 

The you sir, subscribe to communism. A country cannot feed and house it's citizens if no one is contributing to the economics of that country. Simply put, no money, no food no housing. Has nothing to do with right or wrong, has to do with what is realistically possible. You are living in fantasy land.

We have all the answers. We have all the solutions. The reason we can't take care of our own people isn't because of a lack of resources, it's because of a manipulation of resources. This is what the industrial revolution was about and that was the pivotal moment when the majority of humanity let free trade fail and let mega-corporations enslave the rest of the people.

You think we need oil? You think we need centralized farming? You think we need banking? We don't. We could easily take care of our own by being smart, outting the leaches of our nations, and simply start exporting quality American-made products. We are a nation of bankers and brokers. We didn't used to be that way and we don't always have to be.

As far as the contribution aspect, I don't see why you think nobody would contribute. I don't see anybody contributing now and we are somehow still here. Get rid of the oppressive regulations that keep small business down and then everybody could contribute. We have a cancerous element in this nation and they have somehow fooled us into thinking we need them in order to survive. We don't. Do you know how many people we could shelter and feed with the subsidy money we pay to different industries? It's insane.

Originally posted by MissCoyote
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

No it doesn't cuz honestly the average soccer mom doesn't do anything but drive kids and do grocery shopping get her nails and hair done and for all intensive purposes the government is using the ows to there advantage. all in the name of business baby. so by standing out there beating your drums itching bout not having a job and a hair from homelessness the guy that walked past you 45 minutes ago just got a job that secured his futurea little longer. these college kids EXPECT that they will have a job immediately and wont take anything less than what they majored in. didn't they take economics or something. nobody EVER jobs right into the perfect field they have to OMG they have to WORK for it.

But the homeless guy is securing HIS future, his own. Not anyone elses. What the OWS is trying to do, and why I argue for a right to food and shelter, is to help EVERYONE. Not just ourselves. Thats selfish and we dont need more selfishness to solve the problem. We need more cooperation.

Originally posted by haarvik

I am so sick of hearing how everyone deserves basic food/shelter, etc. No you don't!

One day when you are down on your luck you will hear these very same words repeated back to you

The social system needs to be revised and people should have to do something (Unless they are unable) to receive assistance. If you've ever tried to get assitance you would know how #ed up the system really is.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by 83war3

 

You somewhat got the jist. I am not saying we should not help our fellow man. I am not saying we abstain from charity. What I am saying is there is no guarantee for any of us for anything. If people would just step back and realize the movie set we are on, it would not take long for us to reclaim our country and our freedoms. Until our mentality changes from a jealous one, we will never fix the problems we are faced with.

Divide and conquer

TPTB do it so well, and you are not even aware it is happening to you. Next time you watch a movie, or a TV show, really pay attention. I mean REALLY pay attention. It doesn't take long for the subtle messages to shine through. You and I are being played and TPTB are the coaches. As long as we fight each other and think someone owes us something we will forever be the slaves. Until we accept that our destiny is in our hands we will forever be slaves.

I agree our mentality needs to change... We are a jealous, greedy, selfish beast of an animal that needs to be given a wake up call. The Dr.Paul ideology is great to the point where we forget we should have equal rights, but we are all not equally capable doing what is moral with those rights. There should be some basic comforts provided to those who are not capable. All extreme measures/ideas is what divides and conquers the common man/woman. What ever label is put on aid by governments to the PEOPLE our people should be taken away. SOCIAL security, medicAID, FOODstamps....whatever, these things do not cost so much in a moral society, its the society we are in now that is the problem where corp greed makes these simple basic needs demonized.