A question to ATS LEO members: where do you stand now on OWS?

Many, if not all, the members of ATS who identify themselves as LEOs assert they are the good guys who serve the people with restraint and dedication to the general populace, and if ordered, would never, ever turn on their fellow citizens.

Well, push has come to shove.

How many of you are currently on the lines attacking the general populace who are demanding fairness in our economy?

How many of you have resigned?

How many of you have joined the protests?

How many of you have indeed turned on your fellow citizens and deprived them of the rights to freedom of assembly and protest?

I hope not many, but I fear that all will put personal job security ahead of their duty as citizens to support the OWS movement.

Please prove my fears wrong.

This is a great idea for a topic, can't wait to see the answers on this one.

what is a LEO?

edit:thanks dude

Very interesting topic. I dont think we will be hearing much from actual officers, I couldnt image having the information available on ATS at my fingertips while simultaneously keeping my job with the force. Maybe 10 years ago the story was different.

After last years Toronto G20 protests, with officers instigating voilence, 1000 arrests, random illegal searches.....amongst other horror stories.... it is clear Police are no longer here to serve the people, but rather to mindlessly protect the interests of their supperiors. And with the media black out, it was a free for all, cops were able to do what they wanted, be as aggressive as they wanted, with none of that making it to the general population. All people see even until today is the images of a burning cop car. Good job

Law Enforcement Officer

just wanted to add regarding my above post, I know that the men and women who make up the force are people too, I dont want to paint a picture that they themselves are bad. But....The time has come to pick which side you are on.

Apacheman.

As all have said before. Good to have you back and productive.

Regarding the OWS issue. We are not dealing with the protests in our area YET.
And what I will do if/when the protests reach our area, well that will be a bridge that will need to be crossed when I get there.

I will tell you this. I will NEVER and have never in 24 yrs of service violated anyone’s constitutional rights. Same goes with OWS or any other protest. I am pleased to see that a few people grew a pair to stand up and speak out against the system. I am just hoping that the protests are not being co-opted by the Govt or corporate interests. I have a funny feeling about the validity and actual meaning of these events.

It is OUR right to protest. For what its worth if you are a man of character and have the guts to stand up for yourself and others, I would proudly stand next to you and protest against the system.

The only thing I would say is, if I was working the protest and some imbecile took a swing at me only because of the uniform I wear, it would be lights out. It’s so sad because when it comes right down to it I could be much more of a friend to these folks than a foe. But how would they know. Keep in mind I would NOT work the detail if my actions or presence would violate any rights granted by our constitution. I would also not take and carry out any order that would likewise result in any impairment of the people rights.

Apacheman. Glad you were able to put the contribution to good use. Ya never know when you’re doing the right thing. Looks like it was put to good use
CHEERS

Originally posted by apacheman

I hope not many, but I fear that all will put personal job security ahead of their duty as citizens to support the OWS movement.

Please prove my fears wrong.

By your logic, is any citizen doing enough for OWS?

Got a job and pay taxes? Better quit it, huh?

Receive any type of government benefits? Better refuse them, huh?

Have investments in the stock market? Better yank them out, huh?

Have money in the bank? Better go yank it out too, huh?

Use any type of public services at all? Water, sewer, roads, bridges, fire departments, public schools, etc....

Better stop using all of that, or aren't you really willing to do your part?

Of course people are going to keep their jobs in this economy with the way things are! Does it mean they will purposely bash in protesters heads to do so? I highly doubt it unless they are provoked into doing so.

They are just doing their jobs, so get over it!

Some of them are. Some of them.
What do the LEO's here have to say about some of their co-workers?
Do some people just like to beat other people?
I saw a video of a cop claiming "My nightstick will get a workout tonight", which leads me to believe that he enjoyes beating on people.
Cops are not bad,
Bad cops are, however. And they paint all of them in a bad light.

My perspective is simple:

Demonstrations are legal and are very important in our society.

BUT

When the demonstrators prevent people from doing their job, prevent people from freely moving on the side walk, prevent vehicles from passing by, when they stop the normal course of life, then they are breaking the law and will be asked to move along or modify their demonstration tactics.

Demonstrate as much as you want, just don't disturb other people by blocking the way. Go ahead! Talk to the people and tell them your point, just don't occupy a whole area and freeze the place preventing people from doing their business.

Doing so is actually preventing people's right to freely move and do their thing. This is when we move in and ask people to move and they usually don't move and then the confrontations start.

People have to realize that if it were them who needed to go to work and some people were demonstrating, blocking their place of work, preventing them from going to work and earn their living, they too would be asking the police to stop them or at least move them.

This is what is happening. OWS needs to find a new strategy to prevent clashing with the police (if that's really what they want... some groups want the clashes to "prove their point". IE anti police brutality rallies)

My 0.02$

Magnum

There are protest in my city but im with the people who want change but cant afford to miss work or school. Im looking for ways I can help and still be productive in my life. At my college we are trying to convert people to the local credit union instead of the big banks and so far we have 100 people who have made the switch.

*EDIT TO ADD* wow i misunderstood that



I thought the LEOs you were talking about had to do with the zodiac sign, not cops.......lol wow im an idiot today...

LEO's are being effected by the economic crisis as much as the rest of us.

They are tax payers and they are expected to carry the burden along with the rest of us, whilst the politicians continue to protect the bankers and multi nationals.

However they are required to carry out their civil duties of ensuring all protests remain peaceful and rightly so.

As long as the movement remains peaceful, then I think there shouldn't be a problem. It is down to individuals if they want to join the movement, regardless of their occupation.

Occupy goes Global tomorrow. I am going down to my City's event tomorrow. Peaceful non compliance.

reply to post by BioSafe


Thanks.

From what I gather, the vast majority of the OWS protesters are peaceful, but determined to stand their ground.

Some of the videos I've watched show apparently unprovoked violence on the part of LEOs. Hopefully when the protests arrive in your city, you will be a cool head of reason and prevent any rashness on the part of your fellow officers, nipping any unnecessary escalations in the bud.

It might be a good idea on your part to ask your department to review the constitutional rights of free assembly and the right to present grievances in the morning briefings prior to the arrival of protests, and to ask them to emphasize that the police presence should be neutral, strictly to ensure orderliness, not to take sides. If they wish to take sides, then do it as private citizens, not in an official capacity as on-duty members of law enforcement.

I want to have faith in law enforcement, I truly do, but misplaced faith can have lethal consequences and until proven safe, it is better to accept the evidence that most (not all) police will not care to honor citizen's rights.

reply to post by apacheman


Push come to shove? How did everything go from peaceful to violent? I can answer that. When the likes of Al Gore, Obama, Warren Buffet, George Soros, the Federal Reserve along with many others decided to support OWS. How did a protest about Wall street get turned into class war fare? I didn't know that Wallstreet and the 1% were a class. Does anyone even know what class warfare is? Most of the people they claim to be protesting about are not even in the US. How much are the organizers like Ivan Marivic getting paid? Do you think these foreign agitiators will be here when martial law comes in. They will be here like the Bin Ladin family was agter 9/11. What are these people things and what do they think they are doing except getting ready to the NWO's dinner. I would ask are these people really this stupid but I already know the answer. It is yes.

reply to post by redrose123


Please stay on topic.

None of your post addresses the questions I raised.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by BioSafe

 

Thanks.

From what I gather, the vast majority of the OWS protesters are peaceful, but determined to stand their ground.

Some of the videos I've watched show apparently unprovoked violence on the part of LEOs. Hopefully when the protests arrive in your city, you will be a cool head of reason and prevent any rashness on the part of your fellow officers, nipping any unnecessary escalations in the bud.

It might be a good idea on your part to ask your department to review the constitutional rights of free assembly and the right to present grievances in the morning briefings prior to the arrival of protests, and to ask them to emphasize that the police presence should be neutral, strictly to ensure orderliness, not to take sides. If they wish to take sides, then do it as private citizens, not in an official capacity as on-duty members of law enforcement.

I want to have faith in law enforcement, I truly do, but misplaced faith can have lethal consequences and until proven safe, it is better to accept the evidence that most (not all) police will not care to honor citizen's rights.

************
Already been down that road with my officers. I have informed them almost verbatim what you stated. We are here to keep the peace and to protect lives and property and to allow freedom of movement to non protesters. Also advised my guys to be patient, polite and professional but not to put up with any physical abuse.

And on a side note and for what it is worth, every so often during role call I pick 1 amendment to review. The guys chuckle, but by god they know the constitution and the meaning of the amendments. It makes all of them better officers and it is a bunch of fun to watch the public who really don’t understand their rights, shooting their mouths off to my officers saying you don’t have the right to “blank blank blank” and to watch my guys rattle off nearly word for word what the amendment says or what a part of the constitution says concerning the accusation. No fuss no muss and usually no physical confrontation because they are usually too stunned at what they just heard. I love ignorant people. I love freedom and I know you can’t have freedom in a society comprised of ignorant, lazy, indulgent, spineless and reliant people.

Originally posted by Cobaltic1978
LEO's are being effected by the economic crisis as much as the rest of us.

They are tax payers and they are expected to carry the burden along with the rest of us, whilst the politicians continue to protect the bankers and multi nationals.

However they are required to carry out their civil duties of ensuring all protests remain peaceful and rightly so.

As long as the movement remains peaceful, then I think there shouldn't be a problem. It is down to individuals if they want to join the movement, regardless of their occupation.

Occupy goes Global tomorrow. I am going down to my City's event tomorrow. Peaceful non compliance.

I’m sad for LEOs.

The ones who don’t hear the words nor understand the meaning of “peaceful non-compliance”; they may be the reason why this movement will beget Marshal Law, as I have my suspicions (*) that...

“peaceful non-compliance” in some LEOs mind frame equates to disrespecting authority that should be squashed, forth-rightly, even if the guy/girl is simply not following “directions”;

that’s what the whole thing is about…

And * these individuals are none the wiser that they are used like pawns just like the rest of us…to spur this movement into fruition? What’s the end-game? Do LEOs have fore-knowledge? Would they admit it?

It’s time for the crap to roll up hill, ain’t it?

What’s wrong with telling your corrupt boss that he/she is no longer entitled the luxury of your services? Are your services to up-hold an oath to the people, or to maintain the corruption?

Ah the moral compass! Some of us have one, and sadly, some of us do not.

Scary times ahead!

reply to post by BioSafe


Glad to hear it.

It sounds like when the protests arrive in your city, we won't be seeing any of the brutality exhibited in others.

For that I'm grateful, and am proud to call you a fellow citizen.

Any LEO that posts on ATS
has psychological issues.

I hope any police stand with the people..

Originally posted by popsmayhem
Any LEO that posts on ATS
has psychological issues.

I hope any police stand with the people..

I'm not LEO and what you just said well,

"C'mere so as I can smack ya', go arrest that criminal that just robbed me will ya'?"

Originally posted by popsmayhem
Any LEO that posts on ATS
has psychological issues.

I hope any police stand with the people..

Can you define "psychological issues" to me...

I am an LEO and I post on ATS regularly... Care to explain what you mean?

And about your last line. I stand for ALL the people, not just those demonstrating. I also stand for those that the demonstrations are causing problems for : IE neighboring shops, neighboring homes, places of work, etc...

I also stand to defend their rights and try to prevent people from ABUSING their rights which breaches other people's rights (see my earlier post)...

I am a protector of ALL THE PEOPLE's rights, not just one group who thinks they can control everything they want in any way they want by hiding under a constitution or bill of rights.

Remember, your rights end where another person's begin... Breaching those rights places some people in OWS in the same position than the people they blame for breaching their own rights (mostly accused is us, the police)...

If OWS wants to be better than that, they should follow simple concepts such as:

1. Leave room for people to pass on the sidewalks
2. Don't block streets and let traffic flow normally
3. DON'T RESIST, ATTACK, DEFY OR THROW CRAP AT THE POLICE WHEN THEY ASK YOU SOMETHING.
4. Get your point across but don't harass passers by.

I shouldn't have to continue because it's all common sense... There's a difference between demonstrating and disturbing and right now some people in the OWS cause are disturbing more than demonstrating causing clashes with the police and giving the whole ideology a bad name...

Magnum