Most Liveable also Most Dangerous City in Country?

America’s Most Dangerous Cities

So, I'm somewhat surprised by this Forbes ranking, but then again, I'm not all that surprised. I'm going to explore a couple of different angles to this, because it greatly intrigues me. I'll tell you what, the reaction of the Mayor and Council intrigues me the most. They are livid, and they want it retracted, and they are accusing Forbes of using Skewed Data, but after reading through the article, I believe it is a fair representation of the Metropolitan Area here.

Tallahassee: Florida’s capital city metro area leads the state in crime with 775 violent crimes per 100,000 residents. Its location on Interstate 10 makes it an attractive city for drug runners who bring contraband north from Miami and the surrounding area. The Tallahassee Police Department has stressed the need to boost funds to interdict drugs moving north, and a high rate of aggravated assaults seems to accompany the drug trafficking, according to Stults. Poverty also plays a role. “At the city level, poverty is one of the strongest predictors of crime rate, and there are definitely large pockets of poverty in Tallahassee – like most cities of its size, it is also segregated, and that contributes to higher crime rates in some areas,” says Stults.

Source

So, Tallahassee Leads the State of Florida?
** There goes the idea of crime being directly related to Cuban immigration, we have very little of that here.
** There goes the idea of it being related to prostitution and strip clubs, we have none of that here. They are militant about shutting down strip clubs, no matter how well permitted and run they are. The last one was open almost 2 weeks.
** There goes the idea that it is strictly urban areas, this town doesn’t have a clear “inner city.” Sure, the Southside of town is a little more black, and a little more impoverished, but the crime isn’t significantly higher there than anywhere else. In fact, according to last night’s news, the crime is more significant outside the city limits in the surrounding community. That is precisely why the Mayor wants Tallahassee off the list.

So, what does make Tallahassee unique to crime?
#1. 3 Huge Universities. Florida State University, Florida A & M University, and the huge Tallahassee Community College. Then, we also have Keiser College and a few others. It is a very migrant population, a very diversified population, and as the study shows, we do have a large “young male” population.

Is that the reason for our high ranking?---------- I believe it plays a part. Combined with the strict ban on prostitution and strip clubs, a high percentage of young males probably does play a large part. Our Murder Rate is not all that high, but armed robberies and sexual assaults are very high for the population size. So, I believe there is something to this statistic.

But what is the unique thing about Tallahassee that could drive these numbers?

(says)…Tom Blomberg, dean of the College of Criminology and Criminal Justice at Florida State Univeristy. “The state of the economy, demographics, the number of young males at any given time, the rate of imprisonment and the number of police all factor in.”

The Number of Police??

Tallahassee is served by a dozen or more police forces of varying sizes and skill levels.

FAMU has its own police force. They are lowly paid, and they stick primarily to the university campus, but technically they are “state police” and they have jurisdiction in the entire state of Florida.

FSU has their own Police Department which is actually very large and well-trained, and it pays an above average wage for police work.

Tallahassee Police Department of course is the primary police force inside the city limits. Their officers start at approximately $40k per year, which is above this area’s average wage. They are a very large force, and from what I have seen they are well trained and equipped.

But that is just the tip of the iceberg, there are many, many more police forces at work in this town.

Florida Highway Patrol is headquartered here. Their training base is here. They patrol the streets in and out of the city here, and they patrol I-10 which was listed as a major drug throughfare, although I can only remember 2 instances of violence along I-10 in the past 5 or 6 years.

Florida Capitol Police are also significant here. They are responsible for the Governor’s Mansion, the State Capitol buildings, and the State Government buildings scattered among the city. I work in a complex of about 15,000 state workers situated on the edge of town, and we have a Capitol Police satellite office here. They are a lowly paid group, and they are not well-trained or experienced, and the other police forces don’t seem to respect them very much, but in reality, they are also “State Police” and they are part of the larger police force known as……….

FDLE (Florida Department of Law Enforcement. FDLE is responsible for the entire state. They report to the State Attorney General, they are a State Agency that administers grants and audits and oversees the smaller forces in the state. They have the major crime labs for the state, they have their own investigative force. They collect and compile the crime statistics, and they manage the other state police forces. They really pervade every other aspect of law enforcement in addition to having their own officers, and they are headquartered in Tallahassee.

SO, DO YOU THINK WE ARE DONE YET???? Nope.

In the interest of space, I will just put out a quick list of the other police forces either headquartered or satellite stationed here:

Leon County Sheriffs Office
Wakulla County Sheriffs Office
Florida Fish and Wildlife (headquartered here, largest force in the state)
DEA (Satellite Office)
Immigration and Customs (Satellite Office)
TSA (Tallahassee Regional Airport)
AHCA has sworn officers (regulates healthcare facilities among other things)
DACS has sworn officers (Dept of Agriculture)
The City has sworn Code Enforcers.

Now, forgive me, I compiled this list off the top of my head, I am probably forgetting at least 1 or 2 additional police forces that have jurisdiction inside of Tallahassee!!!

So, in a town with a small total population, a low immigrant population, no strip clubs, no prostitution problem to speak of, no significant gang problem, no clearly defined “urban” or “inner city” area, and a large number of folks with higher educations, we are still the 8th most dangerous city in the country? And as far as I can tell, the most significant one of Forbe’s contributing factor is the number of police present in this city.

Opinions?

In my opinion.....

We could lower our violent and overall crime rate by legalizing prostitution (or at least stop swatting it down so quickly), allowing strip clubs, and shrinking the size of our police forces in this town. We would combat the affects of the “young males” at the Universities by allowing them some outlets for their natural urges, we would free up more police force to investigate more serious crimes, and we would save much needed budget money!!

Without reading it all, I once went into some PD database and found out that 40% of all crimes are in fact teenagers smoking a joint....

Seriously messed up country the US is in that regards.

reply to post by FriendlyGopher


Yes, that bugs me as well, but in this instance they only used crimes in 4 categories....

We used the FBI’s numbers for four categories of violent crimes: murder and non-negligent manslaughter; forcible rape; robbery; and aggravated assault.

So this really is violent crime.

Tallahassee and the surrounding area probably doesn't have more than a dozen or so murders per year, so that means the other 3 categories must be very, very high to have ranked us in the top 10!! That is why I am pushing the strip club angle. It seems these are mostly robbery, assault, and sex crimes.

So we should encourage other peoples daughters to become prostitutes or lap dancers to pacify the anger of young men. Would you like your own daughter to become a prostitute or lap dancer?

reply to post by woodwardjnr


LOL!

I've been trying to talk my wife into stripping every since I met her! $2000k a week for less than 20 hours of dancing around and looking great? I would do it in a second.

But the answer is NO. I wouldn't want my daughter doing it, but I also don't see anything wrong with it. I don't see it as degrading, I see it as empowering for women. If you have ever been to a strip club, the only people degraded are the poor hapless men throwing money away with no chance of sex or relationship. Us men are pretty sorry folks in the presence of beautiful women, especially scantilly clad women.

But, I hope my point was more clear that I disagree with the idea that banning these things reduces crime. Obviously it does NOT reduce crime. In fact, it likely INCREASES crime.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I love Tallahassee, I go over there at least two times a month to get my organic foods, from New Leaf Market and
Earth Fair, love to eat at one of the restaurants around down town. It takes about 1 hour and 1/2.

I had not clue that crime was such a problem in the town.

But hey, my town was voted the poorest town in the State of GA, guess what even when we got two Walmarts in the same within just a few miles of each other, but then again they will never replace the 6 manufacturing plants we lost in the last 15 years or so.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I would be a hypocrite to say that I disagree on your lap dancing point. But, I have a moral problem with prostitution, I'm not religious in any way, but I don't believe any one would choose to be a prostitute unless they were desperate for the money and no father would ever want that as a future for their daughter. Yet men expect to be able to pay for sex without considering how the prostitute got themselves in that position.

Sorry for going way off topic hear, just wanted to clear up my remarks.

With regards to male violence, the London riots were a good example for me. Lots of young kids, with nothing to do, with no natural excitement in their lives are going to cause trouble. Humans used to have to fight against other predators and tribes for survival, now they hang around in groups with all that testosterone and energy and nowhere to focus it.

reply to post by marg6043


Walmarts ought to be the first indicator of a poor town.

I don't think the crime here is all that bad to be honest. BUT, on the other hand, I know they underreport things like sexual assaults, or call them something less and then upgrade them later to skew the statistics downward and protect the recruitment efforts of the Universities. SO, if these are the underreported numbers, imagine what the real rate is like?

reply to post by getreadyalready


You know I never feel like I am in any kind of danger when I am in Tallahassee, I love busy towns love the mall, is always pack whenever I got down there on Saturdays, no like here in my neck of the woods where only you see a lot of people around the malls on holidays or special days.

BTW I also love going to the Olive Garden.

reply to post by marg6043


I never feel in danger here either. There is no where in this town I would be afraid to go day or night. In fact, the most dangerous place to be is probably walking on FSU campus after midnight alone, or out in the FSU Alumni Village where the foreign students stay. They are victimized a lot. The second most dangerous place is probably drunk at a Frat Party, especially if you are a female.

There isn't really a bad part of town persay.

Marg, we'll have to get lunch one day if you come to town!!!

I also find it odd that Tallahassee didn't even rank in the top 50 or so last year according to Wiki?

Here is Forbe's 2010 list:

The Country’s Most Dangerous Cities

1. Memphis, Tenn.

2. St. Louis, Mo.

3. Kansas City, Mo.

4. Detroit, Mi.

5. Miami, Fla.

6. Tulsa, Okla.

7. Nashville-Davidson, Tenn.

8. Indianapolis, Ind.

9. Oklahoma City, Okla.

10. Stockton, Calif.

Forbes 2010.

Has there been a bunch of crime I haven't noticed in my own town since last year?

I have spent a great deal of time in Kansas City and St. Louis and they do have some scary parts of town. I LOVE Memphis, TN, but it certainly has some bad areas. I also LOVE Miami, but don't go into some neighborhoods unless you are armed and fluent in Spanish. I used to frequent Tulsa and Oklahoma City, and I enjoyed all my time there and never felt in danger whatsoever.

These numbers are making less and less sense.

reply to post by getreadyalready


He, he, my next day to go down there will be at the end of the month, probably, looking at the calendar, on the 28 of October, I will love to meet you, It will be nice to know which places are the best for lunch.

I always wanted to meet one of my fellow ATS members.

I'm unsure of how they compile the statistics, or what they all mean.

But, just a couple of years ago my even littler town was designated as the most dangerous city in America based on crime "per capita."

Many people around here were shocked, and it created quite an uproar among city leaders and the Chief of Police.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


I remember when Little Rock and Hot Spings were up high on that list!! HBO used to have a special on gangs in Little Rock, and at one time it was suppposed to be worse than Los Angeles!!

I love Hot Springs, and Eureka, and I used to live in Springdale, Bentonville, War Eagle, and had a girl friend in Mountain Home! Absolutely Gorgeous countryside!

I can't believe you guys made #1? Maybe that is why they limit it to cities over 250,000 now?

reply to post by getreadyalready


In the mid 90's the gang epidemic in Little Rock was pretty bad. Considering the population, it just might have been more dangerous than L.A.

Being in close proximity, it was natural I guess for that to trickle down here.

While the gang problem isn't the same as it used to be, we do have new problems to fill its place. The meth epidemic as well as ever increasing poverty in the area is helping fuel those statistics today.

To top it all off, we are a tourist and retirement community. Stats like those surely do not help that cause.

Once again, I'm not sure how these stats are compiled or what they really mean, but according to Wikipedia the per capita income is around $17,000 with 20-30% of the city living under the poverty line.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


The Meth is hitting my old stomping grounds hard also. Upon along the 4-State Area of Missouri/Kansas/Oklahoma/Arkansas. Many of my old friends hooked or in trouble by it. When I visit home these days it is apparent in the appearances of people. Skin, Eyes, Teeth. It is pretty sad how rampant the problem has become.

Also found this tidbit. This 8th Most Dangerous City in the Country was also voted the "Most Liveable City in the Country" for the same year?

Tallahassee, FL -- October 5, 2011 --

Can the most livable city also be one of the most dangerous? That's what a new Forbes magazine article is saying about Tallahassee.

"This is outlandish," Tallahassee Police Chief Dennis Jones says. "It's a slap in the face to this community."

Jones is one of many leaders angry at Forbes magazine.

Forbes released an online article listing Tallahassee as the country's 8th most dangerous city.

This coming the same year Tallahassee was named the country's "most livable city" by the U.S. Conference of Mayors.

WCTV: Locals React

Just bumping my thread for the evening crews logging on at 5, LOL!

This is a pretty hot topic here in Tally, but I suppose it isn't so popular outside this area.

Anybody in any of the other cities listed that would like to chime in?

reply to post by getreadyalready


I think that part is sort of funny, but it is something I kind of discussed with a friend the other day.

While I do think my city is a pretty decent city, even in light of the crime statistics, my point to him was it is really only nice to live here if you are able to experience the things that make this a great place to live.

If you are living in the areas where the crime occurs, you may have an entirely different view and see it as a pretty crappy place to live.

I think the biggest part of it is perspective. If you are affluent and are able to live in nicer neighborhoods and take part in the experiences that make the city great, then you probably have a high opinion of the city.

There are many things that make my little city great. But, since I am largely unable to experience those things, they do not help influence my overall opinion of the city.

New York City could be a great place to live if you are able to live in a high-rise apartment, experience Broadway shows, or take part in some of the other experiences that make it great. If you live in a rat infested slum, and the closest thing you get to a show are the ones where you put in some change and the curtain goes up, well you may think the city sucks.