The Confederate Flag: A Disturbing Trend?

And today some people fly the confederate flag because they are racist, and proud of it. The flag has always left a bad tast in my mouth.

Originally posted by xEphon
I'm curious to see if this has been happening in the places you live too. I've noticed this here in PA. I hear many people claim it isn't about racism and frankly that's just BS. The confederate flag always has and always will be about racism.

The Inside Geek

Over the past few months I’ve noticed a disturbing trend developing here in my little corner of Northeast Pennsylvania. It comes in the form of a rectangular piece of cloth, crisscrossed by two blue bars, thirteen stars, and has found its way onto all sorts of things. The confederate flag, or rebel flag, has been a sensitive topic ever since the civil rights movement of the 1960s when the counter movement used it as a symbol of opposition, most notably the Ku Klux Klan.

First,

The Klan is pretty much a non issue. You hear vastly more about the Black Panthers.

Second.

I'm so very sorry your sensitive. We Southerners will continue to do as we will without regard for "sensitive" northerners that still tend to be unable to mind their own business.

We really didnt need you then and really dont need you now.

I've been very proud to have several yankee friends....all of them "upstate" country folks. There isnt a lick of difference between the two of us....just a few miles.

The Damn Yankees that want US to bend to their opinion of what is "correct"?

Well. I'll just say this.

You really dont see all the big "flash mobs" and "race attacks" down here do you? Correct. We will not hesitate to reduce the threat level.

In this regard, we all tend to get along very well.

FYI.

The difference between a "yankee" and a "DAMN YANKEE"?

a yankee is respectful and mindful of his place when visiting down here. In this regard, I will not hesitate to extend the hand of friendship to a yankee.

Originally posted by bftroop
reply to post by GrassyKnoll

 

Don't you mean reverse racism?

I find the term "reverse racism" to be racist as it implies whites are responsible for racism.

Originally posted by cklein61
And today some people fly the confederate flag because they are racist, and proud of it. The flag has always left a bad tast in my mouth.

Hey bud,


Heads up.

Dont eat flags.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Just like all those buddhist statues and textiles with swastikas on them are obviously Jew-hating bigot symbols.

This is why symbolism is inherently worthless. There are no uncorrupted symbols and having to stop and explain to every nit nelly out there that you arent a monster of cartoonishly epic proportions is just asinine.

The same could be said for christian churches and their crosses. Symbolism of belief in a fairy tale and used by those believers to denigrate those who don't believe.
And that same cross was used by the KKK was it not, good southern baptists who believed in cristianity.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
First, the flag in question is claimed to be born of hatred. That claim is refuted, then the excuse that it has 'come to be seen' as a symbol of hatred is used. Then it is claimed that those of us who hold the flag dear are in the wrong for not accepting this change in connotation.

Which is it?

Is the flag inherently racist from its creation, has it wrongly come to be viewed as racist, or it wrong somehow to question societal changes in symbolism? I mean, I have heard the phrase "talking out of both sides of one's mouth", but I never realized hearing that that mouths had three sides.

Again, going back to the swastika analogy: The swastika was used thousands of years before Hitler ever used it. The symbol wasn't born into hatred/bigotry/genocide, but was actually a positive and enlightening symbol. Over time, Hitler used it, and is is now seen as a symbol of evil, and who are we kidding ourselves, rightfully so. Are you trying to deny the societal impact of the swastika, and what it means to most people today?

You call me ignorant; that's fine, as I have been called much worse. I choose to not be offended by that remark. More proof that offense is controlled by the one offended, not by the one offending. I am sure you intended me to be offended at that remark, but I retain the ability to make the final choice as to my state of offense. You cannot change that.

I didn't necessarily intend on offending you, just trying to open your eyes a bit, while telling you the truth.

The same principle applies to the flag... my flag. Call it what you will; it flew over the graves of my forefathers whom I honor. I will not dishonor them by dishonoring it, nor by bowing in complicity to those who would.

So if my posts, or my adherence to my cultural heritage offends you... well, too bad. Yours does not offend me. Think about that, while you contemplate the depths of my 'ignorance' and the heights of your 'superiority'.

TheRedneck

You seem to be too emotionally involved in what you hold so close, to not realize what the flag means to so many. So are you saying that anybody who's relatives fought for the Nazis, should honor their forefathers, by displaying the swastika everywhere? Hell, I'm not saying you can't display your flag, but don't act like there aren't any negative connotations attached to it, just because your forefathers fought for that flag. If my grandfather fought for the Nazi's, yet, I don't support their actions today, does that give me a right to proudly display a Nazi flag, because my grandfather died for it? I mean, sure, I could display a Nazi flag, but I think I would be either ignorant or racist.

And if someone wants to show off their "southern heritage", or what have you, why choose a symbol that was only around for four years? It doesn't seem to be an accurate representation of southern heritage, to only account for four years, especially with how the flag is viewed now. If that's the only flag you choose to represent, it really is no surprise to me why you chose it in the first place. And if you really aren't trying to be racist about it, then yes, I think you're completely ignorant to why some view it in a different light, just like I would view someone ignorant who is wearing a swastika, because they like the meaning of "power, strength, and good luck". Really? Out of all the symbols that could also represent "power, strength, and good luck", you chose a swastika. Right, you're either extremely ignorant, or you're just a racist. You can preach about all the history you want, and try to show how it isn't racist to you, but you have to be extremely ignorant to not see why others view that flag with such negative connotations. And if you do realize that people view it in a negative light, and yet, still display it even more, then you're even more ignorant than I thought.

But hey, this is the land of the free, home of the brave....do what you want, I can see it wont stop you, as it wont stop me from looking down upon people who display it so proudly. Being proud about a war you lost? Right, I know I'm mostly proud of my baseball team, when they loose their games. It makes perfect sense If you wanna be proud of your southern roots, you can choose something else to represent you southern pride(which is completely fine 100%), or you can continue to look like an ignorant racist.

I moved to Florida from Wisconsin.
When I came here I so liked it that I adopted the whole South and all their symbols.
When I came here radio stations still signed off by playing "Dixie".
This was another symbol of the Mystique of the South that I was now proud to be a part of.
I subsequently learned many things about that war of Northern agression.
Sherman's genocidal march to the sea,
The senseless burning of Atlanta,
and The Coerced new State Constiutions to name a few.

I have a Confederate Flag sticker on the bumper of my car.
I view it a cultural and a symbol of protest against the increasingly power hungry central government.

My Brother who still lives in Wisconsin flys a Confederate flag as an expression of protest against high taxes and the increasingly tyrannical government.

I find it so dumb to even display that flag . I think true freedom would not be represented by that flag.

The confederate flag is racist...it is, get over it

The swastica is also racist..it is. get over it.

Both did not start as racist symbols. One represented the dismal failure of the southern united states to try and leave the union and promptly got their butts handed to them
The other represented a indian symbol that has a few different meanings overall

However, when a entire racist movement adopts the symbol and it becomes a meme, then yep, it is just that, a corrupted symbol.

You want to express Freedom? draw a A with a circle around it...thats pretty solid meaning still.

But ya...if your waving around a rebel flag now...it means one of two things...either your a racist, or retarded..might as well wave around some ancient gaul flag or other failed civilizations that were beaten into submission within a few years of inception..

150 year old sore losers.

Threads like these never fall short of my (low) expectations for ATS. Keep it classy ATS.

reply to post by sparrowstail


That's a little absurd to say.
The confederate flag is no more tarnished than the American flag. You can't even almost compare it to the swastika.. The confederate flag is mostly tarnished by history books and a lot of misinformation not actual actions.
They didn't commit atrocities under the flag.

Also.. there aren't many cars that would last too long left alone in downtown Detroit nowadays ; )

TravisT says: “You seem to be too emotionally involved in what you hold so close, to not realize what the flag means to so many.”

Travis, you might be curious as to just how those who view that flag negatively came to do so. Are their beliefs justified or have they been misled and succumbed to prejudiced opinions of those with less real education?

The most violent element in society is ignorance. ~Emma Goldman

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument. ~William G. McAdoo

reply to post by TravisT


But I think it is used equally today by both racists and people that keep it out of respect and heritage. It's just those people don't attract as much attention.

Off topic: Great avatar, I'm a big Neutral Milk fan, I posted it in a thread of people talking about music and they hated it (mostly tool fans that were talking about the brilliance of tools music.. you will have that here).

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by CynicalWabbit

 

Africans who came to the U.S. as slaves wound up becoming a part of the greatest economy on the planet, with far more privileges and opportunity than most people around the planet enjoy.

And freedom to participate in that economy as a free citizen with property and real opportunities, was only a short underground rail way ride away to the true north strong and free.

I can see by the reactions to the Confederate flag that the rewriting of history is going good and the brain washing of the masses is working .

Please read history books , books and articles from the period not reworked history according to popular beliefs. The civil war was not about slavery it was about federal heavy handedness and economic issues .

Confederate flag = Defiance of Federal Government actions

You can rewrite history all you want and it dose not make it true !

reply to post by TravisT

Again, going back to the swastika analogy:

Good; I like that analogy.

As I see it, yes, the swastika has a negative connotation for Western culture. But does it have such a reputation among Hindus? If not, then I see no reason for them to stop using it, nor do I assume that because their symbol was used by an evil force, they themselves are evil.

Just as I see no reason why I should stop flying my flag simply because a bunch of hate-filled wanna-be KKK members used it once. If it offends you, then again, I am sorry you are so weak-minded as to allow a symbol to ruin your day... especially one where the meaning is totally different than you believe it to be.

I didn't necessarily intend on offending you, just trying to open your eyes a bit, while telling you the truth.

In that case, you got the response you wanted. If on the other hand your actual intention were to have been offensive, then you did not get the result you wanted. You see how that works? Your intent does not affect my mental state, only your results... so why do other people allow my use of a symbol to affect their mental state?

That's the point I want to use to open your eyes a bit.

You seem to be too emotionally involved in what you hold so close, to not realize what the flag means to so many.

What others think of the symbols of my heritage does not bear on whether or not I am allowed to celebrate said heritage with said symbols.

I fully realize what others think of my flag. I have had long conversations with people about it. I remember one trucker who was shuttling me to pick up an abandoned truck one time. He was black, and when we passed a house that was proudly displaying the flag, he made a comment about racism. The rest of our trip was mostly about that one subject, me explaining why it wasn't racist and him explaining why it was. In the end, he told me mostly about racist attitudes he had experienced in his life, but very little about why that particular flag reminded him of them. Of course I couldn't change his mind; I didn't expect to to be honest. But it did give me a good insight into why people seem to be so disparaging about the Confederate Flag:

It makes them remember.

Some of us want to remember. I feel it is better than having to repeat the lesson.

As to being emotional, there is a continuing creep of legal policies that aim to make my flag illegal to fly. The Confederate Flag once flew above the Alabama State Capital, until out-of-state interests threatened a lawsuit and the weak governor we had at the time took it down. I remember when Georgia was under attack because the Confederate Flag is a part of their state flag. How many times have there been complaints about crosses, another strong symbol for me? I do remember the ACLU wanted Las Cruces, NM to change the city shield because one corner of it contained the image of a cross (the name 'Las Cruces' means 'The Cross')!

So yeah, I am a bit emotionally tied to that flag and I do rebut any attack on it. Otherwise I will be in prison, because no one will ever take that flag nor m y pride in my heritage from me as long as I draw breath. And I would just as soon not be made a criminal by closed-minded herd-mentality self-righteous 'saviors of society', thank you very much.

And if someone wants to show off their "southern heritage", or what have you, why choose a symbol that was only around for four years?

Ah, yes, I was wondering when this argument would come about.

Why is it that you believe you can better choose what is dearest to my heart than I can? What is it in the human spirit that makes people in general think they know better than those who are intimately involved?

Why do you choose to drive the car you drive? I'm sure I can find a 'better' alternative...
Why do you work in the field you work in? I'm sure I can suggest a 'better' job for you...
Why do you eat the foods you eat? I'll bet I can suggest something 'better'...
Why do you wear the clothes you wear? Don't you realize I can tell you what you want 'better' than you can?

You do not get to choose my preferences in life, nor do I get to choose yours. That's called 'freedom', and is the very thing I think of when I see the Confederate Flag.

Come to think of it, I'm coming to better realize why you dislike it... thank you for that.

TheRedneck

reply to post by SaturnFX


That is like me saying you are retarded for having a frog in your signature.When a person cannot support their position they resort to name calling which in and of itself is rearded.

Originally posted by felonius

Originally posted by cklein61
And today some people fly the confederate flag because they are racist, and proud of it. The flag has always left a bad tast in my mouth.

Hey bud,


Heads up.

Dont eat flags.

Got to say, even though that cklien61 is just a troll account, I will admit that your post made me LOL. Thanks.

Yes, the Confederate flag is consider racist, but who really cares what others think (people have to get over this progressive crap) Just as there are many who think it represents racists, others consider it to be a symbol of state rights.

reply to post by GrassyKnoll


I'm not denying anyone their right to wave the flag or denying them their beliefs. All I am stating is that the confederate flag has been adopted by many racist as a symbol of hate and oppression. If you decide you want to fly it, you must do so knowing that there are many associations tied to it, and they're not all filled with glitter and unicorns.

reply to post by Lostinthedarkness


It isn't about re-writing history. It's about what the flag, TODAY, stands for by many people. It was born out of a time period when oppression of minorities existed so it has been adopted by many people who feel that oppression should still continue. Most people up North here can give a damn about the flags representation of state rights. Hell, I doubt many of them even know that's why some people fly it. To them, it just the Good 'Ol Boys flag.