Saudi Arabia threatens split with US if Obama vetos Palestinian statehood bid

We shall see. The Palestinian declaration of statehood is on September 20.

US risks being 'toxic' over Palestinian veto: Saudi prince

The United States must back a Palestinian bid for UN recognition of statehood or risk becoming "toxic" in the Arab world and forcing a split with ally Saudi Arabia, a top Saudi diplomat warned Monday.

If Washington imposes its veto when the Palestinians seek to become the 194th member state of the United Nations then "Saudi Arabia would no longer be able to cooperate with America in the same way it historically has," former Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Turki al-Faisal wrote.

He warned in a commentary in the The New York Times that a US veto would see American influence decline, "Israeli security undermined and Iran will be empowered, increasing the chances of another war in the region."

"The 'special relationship' between Saudi Arabia and the United States would increasingly be seen as toxic by the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims, who demand justice for the Palestinian people."

Go Palestine! And come on Obama, do the right thing... so that extremists in Hamas will lose their credibility if Palestine get their state. Israel government won't be able to hide their war criminals no more (well it'll be harder anyway)... Israel's government must see justice, for the sake of the palestinians, the Israelis and the world.

Giving Palestinians a state, finally, will be a big step towards that.

I dont think Saudi Arabia will go through on their threat.

the US will always side with Israel...

the US will veto... you can take this prediction to the bank.

I do hope im wrong though.... id like to see palestine have their own state recognized.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Sounds vaguely like Blackmail.

US Saudi relations have already been toxic for decades IMO. Yet another reason to kick our Saudi Fossil Fuel addiction and invest heavily in alternatives. I'm not against the idea of a Palestinian state but just didn't like the tone coming from the Saudis.

This is a very important move by Saudi Arabia. In my opinion, they are key to US-Middle Eastern relations.

I think Obama will vote for a Palestinian state. Plus, he may be able to get Israel to accept it in the name of "politics". Done right, this could be a good push for the US.

Saudi Arabia is afraid of Iran. If they break relations with the U.S., they become vulnerable. However, Obama, who seems to support Muslims over anybody else, will support the Palestinians anyway.

This is SA poor attempt at a threat. To repeat again, SA needs the US. Without the US, they could very well be invaded by IRAN. And who would come crying to the US for help? SA. Nice try SA!

Originally posted by kellynap43
This is SA poor attempt at a threat. To repeat again, SA needs the US. Without the US, they could very well be invaded by IRAN. And who would come crying to the US for help? SA. Nice try SA!

Iran hasn't started a war in 200 years. So the chances of them invading SA is slim to none. When Israel hears this they will be screaming how SA is helping Iran or some other kind of crap like that. Like it or not we need the oil from SA. All we hear from Israel is we want weapons and money.

I would support an independent state for the Palestinians, IF Hamas were destroyed - and I mean utterly, with every single one of their leaders dead.

Why should Israel bargain with an entity that refuses to bargain in good faith? Hamas STILL has their desire to destroy Israel embedded as the framework of their charter, and I think a first step would be to change that; BUT I'll be completely honest here: I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. We all know that it is not a sin in Islam to lie to an "infidel" in order to advance the cause of Islam, so they could easily remove their genocidal agenda from the charter and just lie about their true intentions to Israel and the rest of the world. That's why I say the Palestinians can have their state if Hamas is destroyed.

Mohammed was a big proponent of making treaties with his enemies, only to break them when he felt he had a military advantage; and again we all know that Muslims aspire to be like their "perfect human," especially radical ones like the members of Hamas and Hezbollah. Unless Hamas can convince me (I'm not the one they need to convince, it's the Israelis they need to speak honestly with) that they truly want to live in peace, they can take their promises and stick them where the Sun doesn't shine because I don't buy it. They have proven themselves to be nothing but a gang of murdering cowards time and again, who lie regularly in order to advance their agenda.

The only promise they have ever made that I believe is their promise to destroy Israel. I wish them luck with that, because they are going to need it.

I was going to stop at the last sentence. but I just thought of something... What happens if the Palestinians get their state and they continue to launch rockets and mortars into Israel? Has anybody even looked at what the "Rules of War" state? If one sovereign, independent nation attacks another ALL GLOVES ARE OFF! The Israelis will be entitled not only to defend themselves, but retribution and recompense as well. They will be able - under international law - to invade Gaza and claim it as their own.

If the Palestinians are given their own state, "Palestine" won't be an autonomous zone any longer - you could say that becoming a state means they have to put on their big boy pants - and they will have to accept the consequences for their actions. So what happens to all of the innocent Palestinians - as opposed to their genocidal leaders who can rot in Hell for all I care - who will be killed or displaced by such an invasion? Are they going to be taken in by the Egyptians and Jordanians? I think we saw how that worked out the last time didn't we? No, the Palestinians will truly be the new "wandering Jews" with NO place to call their own.

I stick up for innocent people of ALL religions, ALL ethnicity, and ALL creeds; and at this moment, I'm terrified for the safety of the truly innocent people in Gaza. Their scumbag leaders are marching them right up to the gates of Hell with no concern for their well being. That's actually not much of a surprise considering how those cowards hide among civilians and use them as human shields. I created the following editorial in the aftermath of Operation Cast Lead, and it explains exactly why I have such a hard-on for Hamas. (WARNING GRAPHIC WAR FOOTAGE.)



I fear the Saudis are sticking their foot in their mouths with this one, or perhaps if I can use a different metaphor, biting off more than they can chew. The only reason the Saud family is in the position it now enjoys is because it has been supported by the US. If there is no longer a "special relationship" with the US, the House of Saud may very easily find themselves the next victims of the Arab Spring. God knows they have no shortage of enemies in the kingdom. As I recall, OBL became first famous when he preached about overthrowing the monarchy in favor of a caliphate because they had allowed us to use their "Holy Land" (just how many do they need anyway?) to launch Operation Desert Storm. Without our support, they are toast.

Finally! The Saudis show their true colors! VETO!

The Saudis are corrupt, terrorist pigs.

But once again, our ties with Israel lead us into conflict.

I'd love to one day wake up to a world where Israel is forced to stand on its own two feet, and leave us the hell out of their problems.

But that would mean that the government on this side would be purged of lobbyists from AIPAC and the like

F'm All!! I'm tired of waiting to see what happens between these unreasonable Country's! Let Palestine have it's statehood and let Israel cry about it and go out of their way to start a war they can't win. I wanna see 2 sovereign Country's go at it as long as we don't get involved. I respect Israel's Military Ability but they can't win if the Muslim World decides they have outlived their usefulness. If a religion want's to usher in their own Genocide then let em...To many people in the world as is so F'm! "To the Victor goes the Spoils"

Also If the Arab world united against Israel, Even the U.S. wouldn't be stupid enough to get involved..It would be impossible to fight a war in Korea,Turkey,Israel,Egypt,Libya,Syria,Saudi Arabia,Pakistan,Iraq,Iran, and Afghanistan. We'd be spread to thin and another Super Power Would Capitalize for sure on our Stupidity..

reply to post by OldCorp


Israel is far worse than Hamas will ever be. Also it wouldn't hurt for you to do a little research on your statements. Like the one about lying to advance Islam is a typical lie about Islam. And when did it become legal to steal land by force? Palestine getting their statehood would be great because then they could get the UN to help them drive the invaders back to the 48 boarders where they belong. Let's take a look at what the brave IDF does that makes them as bad as Hamas.

Beating children how many times have you seen Hamas beat an Israeli child?



Using white phosphorus which is a war crime. They have even used it on a UN school.



Israeli white phosphorus attack in a UNRWA school

Using Human shields.



The IDF are nothing but cowards that wage war on children.

Originally posted by OldCorp
I would support an independent state for the Palestinians, IF Hamas were destroyed - and I mean utterly, with every single one of their leaders dead.

Why should Israel bargain with an entity that refuses to bargain in good faith? Hamas STILL has their desire to destroy Israel embedded as the framework of their charter, and I think a first step would be to change that; BUT I'll be completely honest here: I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. We all know that it is not a sin in Islam to lie to an "infidel" in order to advance the cause of Islam, so they could easily remove their genocidal agenda from the charter and just lie about their true intentions to Israel and the rest of the world. That's why I say the Palestinians can have their state if Hamas is destroyed.

Mohammed was a big proponent of making treaties with his enemies, only to break them when he felt he had a military advantage; and again we all know that Muslims aspire to be like their "perfect human," especially radical ones like the members of Hamas and Hezbollah. Unless Hamas can convince me (I'm not the one they need to convince, it's the Israelis they need to speak honestly with) that they truly want to live in peace, they can take their promises and stick them where the Sun doesn't shine because I don't buy it. They have proven themselves to be nothing but a gang of murdering cowards time and again, who lie regularly in order to advance their agenda.

The only promise they have ever made that I believe is their promise to destroy Israel. I wish them luck with that, because they are going to need it.

I was going to stop at the last sentence. but I just thought of something... What happens if the Palestinians get their state and they continue to launch rockets and mortars into Israel? Has anybody even looked at what the "Rules of War" state? If one sovereign, independent nation attacks another ALL GLOVES ARE OFF! The Israelis will be entitled not only to defend themselves, but retribution and recompense as well. They will be able - under international law - to invade Gaza and claim it as their own.

If the Palestinians are given their own state, "Palestine" won't be an autonomous zone any longer - you could say that becoming a state means they have to put on their big boy pants - and they will have to accept the consequences for their actions. So what happens to all of the innocent Palestinians - as opposed to their genocidal leaders who can rot in Hell for all I care - who will be killed or displaced by such an invasion? Are they going to be taken in by the Egyptians and Jordanians? I think we saw how that worked out the last time didn't we? No, the Palestinians will truly be the new "wandering Jews" with NO place to call their own.

I stick up for innocent people of ALL religions, ALL ethnicity, and ALL creeds; and at this moment, I'm terrified for the safety of the truly innocent people in Gaza. Their scumbag leaders are marching them right up to the gates of Hell with no concern for their well being. That's actually not much of a surprise considering how those cowards hide among civilians and use them as human shields. I created the following editorial in the aftermath of Operation Cast Lead, and it explains exactly why I have such a hard-on for Hamas. (WARNING GRAPHIC WAR FOOTAGE.)

I fear the Saudis are sticking their foot in their mouths with this one, or perhaps if I can use a different metaphor, biting off more than they can chew. The only reason the Saud family is in the position it now enjoys is because it has been supported by the US. If there is no longer a "special relationship" with the US, the House of Saud may very easily find themselves the next victims of the Arab Spring. God knows they have no shortage of enemies in the kingdom. As I recall, OBL became first famous when he preached about overthrowing the monarchy in favor of a caliphate because they had allowed us to use their "Holy Land" (just how many do they need anyway?) to launch Operation Desert Storm. Without our support, they are toast.

edit on 9/12/2011 by OldCorp because: added last para

Excellent post. Well articulated, and insightful analysis of the unfortunate reality of the situation developing in Israel.

Originally posted by Nite_wing
Saudi Arabia is afraid of Iran. If they break relations with the U.S., they become vulnerable. However, Obama, who seems to support Muslims over anybody else, will support the Palestinians anyway.

Obama supports muslims?

you made my day.

Obama is playing an agenda, you know the one where he play act like hes doing something for you but reality it will only benefit him, or benefit the power that be.

Its a step by step program to set Israel as the sole power in the middle east.

Iran this and Iran that.........you folks have got to get off of your television addiction........Think back a bit and think hard.
Cuba this and Cuba that.
Russia this and Russia that.
Korea this and Korea that.
Vietnam this and Vietnam that.
China this and China that.
Afghanistan this and Afghanistan that.
Iraq this and Iraq that.
Libya this and Libya that.
Etc and etc rinse and repeat.....
Just who right now is the aggressor in this world and who is controlled by a lot of dual citizens from another country?
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by illuminatislave
The Saudis are corrupt, terrorist pigs.

But once again, our ties with Israel lead us into conflict.

I'd love to one day wake up to a world where Israel is forced to stand on its own two feet, and leave us the hell out of their problems.

But that would mean that the government on this side would be purged of lobbyists from AIPAC and the like

The United States won't be drawn into this war. It won't last long enough. For better or worse, when this thing really gets rolling, I wouldn't expect the fighting to last more than a few days. We're talking about a tiny landmass and physical realities just don't allow for a long term hot conflict. I thought we had a U.S. CVBG off the Libyan coast until I checked the other night. Uh oh.. no Carrier. The closest one is down in the Arabian Sea supporting anti-piracy operations. The U.S. only has 3 Carriers deployed anywhere in the world, near as I could tell. One might even think Obama had cleared the field of major U.S. assets to be caught in the very hot but short cross fire this will all be, if it happens.

I guess we'll know in 8-10 days. Here is hoping cooler heads on both sides suddenly appear before it goes over the tipping point.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by OldCorp

 

Israel is far worse than Hamas will ever be. Also it wouldn't hurt for you to do a little research on your statements. Like the one about lying to advance Islam is a typical lie about Islam.

Oh yeah? sounds like you're practicing a bit of al-Taquiyya (I spell it differently) yourself:

The principle of Al-Takeyya

The Arabic word, "Takeyya", means "to prevent," or guard against. The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one's self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse:

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." Surah 3: 28

According to this verse a Muslim can pretend to befriend infidels (in violation of the teachings of Islam) and display adherence with their unbelief to prevent them from harming him.

Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable:

Drink wine, abandon prayers, and skip fasting during Ramadan.
Renounce belief in Allah.
Kneel in homage to a deity other than Allah.
Utter insincere oaths.

The following quote demonstrates the broadness of situations in which the prophet permitted lying. "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies with these exceptions: During war because war is deception, to reconcile among two quarreling men, and for a man to appease his wife." *OldCorp comment: That covers just about any situation I can think of.

SOURCE: Islam Review (The article has MANY more examples of encouraged lying, backed up by verses from the Koran and the Suras too.)

And when did it become legal to steal land by force?

It's not stealing when it's annexed during war. Read a history book and see what happens to those who typically lose wars; or if you can't be arsed, just think about what happened to the Sinai after Egypt lost the Six Day War (Which was preceded by and based around Egyptian lies, and is spoken of in the above linked article.)

Palestine getting their statehood would be great because then they could get the UN to help them drive the invaders back to the 48 boarders where they belong.

How exactly? The UN hasn't done anything about it since the Arabs ignored the UN division in '48 and launched a war in which they got their asses handed to them. What makes you think this would be any different if the Palestinians had a state?

Let's take a look at what the brave IDF does that makes them as bad as Hamas.

Beating children how many times have you seen Hamas beat an Israeli child?

That's the best you can do to illustrate Israeli "atrocities?"

The first part of the video is OBVIOUS Pallywood. The videographer most likely told those kids, "Go up to the Jews and insult their mother or something," hoping to provoke just that kind of reaction. And what was the reaction? Getting cuffed up with less brutality than I see in my own home when my boys are fighting over the XBox.

The second "child" looks to be about 17 or 18, and we have no idea what he had done or said to get slapped by the Israeli soldier before he walked away. He probably had some smart-ass remark to make and the soldier did what anyone would do; he smacked the guy. What is important, is that neither of these clips showed anyone being "beaten," and your example fails.

Wanna know what happens when Israeli soldiers really do cross the line? THIS.

So BOO HOO a couple of hooligans got their hair messed up. Unlike the Palestinians, the Israelis play by the rules of a civilized society, and when those rules are broken by individual soldiers they are punished accordingly.

Using white phosphorus which is a war crime. They have even used it on a UN school.

No it's not, what are you, 12? Further, the UN schools were attacked because Hamas was launching rockets at Israeli civilians - not against military bases that were within range; no, that is what MEN would do - from those compounds.

As far as your last video goes, I addressed that earlier. Those soldiers were arrested, convicted, and punished. I wonder how many Hamas members have been punished for something similar.

*I tackle your last point in the next post. I've run out of space.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by OldCorp

 

The IDF are nothing but cowards that wage war on children.

Hamas could attack Israeli military bases that fall within the range of their rockets, and that accounts for a good majority of them; yet the only places they have ever attacked are pizza parlors, nightclubs, mass transit buses, and just for *hits and giggles their last target was a SCHOOL BUS that thank God had already dropped off most of its children.

You don't ever want to stand up for Hamas when I'm in the thread my friend. Anything you think you have on the Israelis, I can trump with crap 100X more horrendous, and frequent, committed by Hamas.

If it were not for the United Sates, Saudi Arabia would have been done a long time ago. A treaty was made in the 1930's and has never been broken. Go ahead Saudi Arabia, break that treaty and see how long you stay an independent nation.