What has Israel Done for Peace? Plenty it seems.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood

That is the power of saturating and marinading people in a leftist cultral PC soup - Israelis, Westerners, whites, Christians, Americans etc are by definition evil, guilty, racist, warmongers.

Facts and reasonableness simply don't come into it - they can, will and must be twisted round out of all recognition to draw the only politically acceptable conclusion - you might as well be arguing with creationists!

Do you think it makes sense to insult people whose opinions differ from yours?

You're right and wrong in the same time.

You're right, Israelis never openly say they don't want peace.

But you're wrong in thinking that the current Israeli government prefers peace over war.

Because their understanding of peace is complete assimilation of Palestinians and their territories into Israel, and to rule over them. Ofcourse the Arabs promote hatred on their end as well, making Jews looks like monsters.

But I don't see any Jewish schools, promoting peace in their curriculum. Infact, as far as I know, they don't educate their kids on the equality of Israelis and Palestinians, that all life is sacred, that they must cherish them and teach them the right way. If a country is serious about peace, they need to promote it by educating their kids.

There is a lot of hatred on both sides. Both sides are guilty in killing off the other mercilessly at times.

But what bothers me about Israel is that it is scientifically advanced, has more cash and therefore holds more responsibility when it comes to killing off people who are simply less fortunate than they are. Sometimes, with excessive use of force, against rocks, sticks and makeshift weapons.

reply to post by Ultraman2011


ah sorry, what's the politically correct way to react to people stealing your land and murdering anyone who protests?

reply to post by Beavers


hmm...maybe I'm an American,nice to meet you Mexico and the Natives that live here?

Originally posted by ALF88

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Israel has done what no nation would have done. You can argue their right to the land all you want. This is their land of origin and it is a possession marked by God for His people.

By God for his people? Do you think God likes what "his" people are doing to the Palestinians? I doubt it!

Where is your proof, that it is true, what you are saying. Your belief and religious "books" are not in enough in that regard. Religion has and always will be a method of control and there is no difference between a right wing Zionist Jew and a Islamic fundamentalist.

There is a distinct difference. One group seeks to steal, kill and destroy. The other group seeks to honor, protect and defend. One seeks their own pride. The other seeks God from the goodness of all that is right and true. There is no good aspect of strife and war. The US currently occupies a land called America that previously belonged to 60 million native Americans. We are not in a position as a nation to judge on the matter. Israel is a nation that was brought back into their land by God. God IS in a position to judge all the nations rightly. Before anyone was ever in the land of Israel, God placed a claim on the region for the Hebrew people. Before any Arab ever lived in the land, scripture revealed the land as His throne for judging the nations. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, it will happen as outlined in scripture. I am only stating the obvious.

I don't disagree that conditions are not ideal on either side. My point is that the Bible already outlines what will happen. It is not a matter of if it will happen. Israel will be largely destroyed by what is coming. Only a remnant will survive to the second coming of Christ. It has already been written that they will be judged for their actions. All nations will be judged this way. The point is to stand for truth. Even Israel must make this choice and love their enemies. The problem is, they have denied the truth of the Living God who was in their presence. He gave them the answer. The answer is to turn the other cheek. Bless those who persecute you. Love your enemies. So far, they are not waking up to the message of Christ. They will eventually wake, as will the Muslims. Jesus is their messenger as well. The Muslims are also the brother of Issac (Israel). Ishmael's fate was spoken to Abraham.

What do you think will happen when the Jews and the Muslims finally realize that Jesus was what He claimed and the Christians were right all along? Peace will take place and the majority of the world will be unified behind the truth of the Gospel. The war will be won by love and not violence. This is what you call peaceful noncompliance. The present corrupt world system will fail when the rest of humanity is unified rather than divided. Divide and conquer will no longer be a tool that will work for world government. Know the truth and the truth will set you free.

Anyway, this is how I see it. Everyone here is welcome to their own opinion. I can only sit here and share mine. Hate never dispels hate. Only love can dispel hate. A negative and a negative only make more negative. Only a positive make cancels a negative. The best is to have two positives. LINK

Originally posted by nusnus
You're right and wrong in the same time.

You're right, Israelis never openly say they don't want peace.

But you're wrong in thinking that the current Israeli government prefers peace over war.

Because their understanding of peace is complete assimilation of Palestinians and their territories into Israel, and to rule over them. Ofcourse the Arabs promote hatred on their end as well, making Jews looks like monsters.

But I don't see any Jewish schools, promoting peace in their curriculum. Infact, as far as I know, they don't educate their kids on the equality of Israelis and Palestinians, that all life is sacred, that they must cherish them and teach them the right way. If a country is serious about peace, they need to promote it by educating their kids.

There is a lot of hatred on both sides. Both sides are guilty in killing off the other mercilessly at times.

But what bothers me about Israel is that it is scientifically advanced, has more cash and therefore holds more responsibility when it comes to killing off people who are simply less fortunate than they are. Sometimes, with excessive use of force, against rocks, sticks and makeshift weapons.

edit on 3-9-2011 by nusnus because: (no reason given)

The goal of peace will never be realised in the middle east whilst the facts are brushed aside by both sides.
Their is bigotry on both sides Judeasm v Islam.
Until both sides start recognising themselves and the other side as Human Beings first and religious adherents second nothing will be resolved.
Militants on both sides sabatoge peace they need to be disarmed and ignored.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I don't need to see the video to smell a Mossad snow job.

The only thing Israel has done is to put most of the Zionists into one, convenient, easy to nuke place. Its just a shame that instead of doing that we allow them to continue one the gistappo-esque tactics they used on the innocent and ignorant Jewry, Gays and Masons during WW2.

Zionists and Israel are a blight on this planet, a cancer that needs to be brutally cut out, even it it takes the host organism with it.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant

“Israel craves peace, yet it craves peace on its terms”.

I'm shocked, completely shocked !!!
Israel wants peace on its own terms !!!
this should be on the front page of every newspaper in the world.
Not even wikileaks came out with such ground shaking information.

Forget the fact that the Sinai desert is almost twice the size of Israel. Forget the oil fields, forget the recreation and truism industry left behind, forget the towns and villages, and lastly, forget that Israel pulled out from the highest level of a strategic asset.
What did the Egyptians had to give in return? Oh yes, stand against the uproar within the Arab league. Shocking I tell you !

reply to post by gravitational


The oil fields weren't Israels in the first place, it had no legal entitlement to the territory and it is illegal to transfer civillians into occupied territories. So all Israel really had to do is obey the law.

You can play down the fact that Egypt had to face the Arab world all you want. However this was rather serious, it went from being basically the biggest Arab power with most the Arab world behind it to being discarded as colluding with and siding with the Zionists. That is a big deal especially in Arab politics. They went from being hero to zero basically.

And yes Israel wants peace on its own terms, and as proven before this often means Israel feel entitled to things which there it has no legal obligation over (i.e. Parts of the West Bank).

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Sweet, next time Israel should adopt the Arab “terms”.
Israel is not entitled to its own “terms”. Why should it? I mean, after all Israel was never attacked in an attempt to annihilate it. It's not like they were attacked constantly in its 63 years of existence and the decades before. In fact, it was Israel who rejected resolution 181 and later 242.

If your perception were a tiny bit more hallucinatory, I would say your claims are funny, but the level of BS and hypocrisy on your part only makes it look pathetic.

Unfortunately for you, the law speak of territories captured by aggression. By the side that waged war. Sadly, it was the Egyptians that were the aggressors, But I'm sure you already know that, or are we going to go through all of that again like a broken record BIB style?

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

One group seeks to steal, kill and destroy.

Then stop the Zionist group that seeks to steal, kill and destroy. If 450.000 can protest for lower housing prices the 450.000 can protest for peace as well.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

We are not in a position as a nation to judge on the matter.

I am not a US citizen.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Israel is a nation that was brought back into their land by God. God IS in a position to judge all the nations rightly. Before anyone was ever in the land of Israel, God placed a claim on the region for the Hebrew people.

I am sorrry there is no proof for that. Your religious texts and books are not enough. God doesn't exist, if he does, prove it to me.

reply to post by Ultraman2011


haha, yeah, but instead we raped their women, killed their husbands and children, took 'the land of the free' from them for err free

your approach would have been much nicer, if only you were in charge back then

Originally posted by Beavers
reply to post by Ultraman2011

 

haha, yeah, but instead we raped their women, killed their husbands and children, took 'the land of the free' from them for err free

your approach would have been much nicer, if only you were in charge back then

Only problem now is that is all water under the bridge. History is history. The current situation is that there is a country in the middle east next to a small territory where the rulers and most of the people in the smaller territory want the first nation destroyed. The first nation is simply taking steps to survive without destroying the territory. Which is actually a stupid move. Usually the stronger nation usually just greases the weaker power. Israel in 70 and 135 AD for example.Ticked off the Romans twice. There was no third time. Europe in WW2 is another example. They tried to appease Germany until the German tanks rolled into Poland and France. And had Hitler played his cards a little differently Greater Germany would still rule from Spain to the Urals. But then there would be no Israel problem now. Eh?

Appeasement never works. Israel will probably have to splatter the Palestinian problem someday. Or get splattered. It's just what happens in these situations.

I see complaints from the side that supports Israel about being reasonable and to look at the facts. They then start to quote from the Bible and scripture. They refuse to accept the facts or reality and ultimately bring in the Bible. If that is the basis, then you have to look at what the Bible has promised and Greater Israel. If you believe God has promised this to the Jews, then you do not want peace. Jews and some fundamentalist Christians believe that God has promised this to the Jews and they have a right to greater Israel. When I see the one side bring in the Bible, I realize that the only solution is for the total dissolution of the Jewish state. It can happen peacefully like in South Africa or through war. You can not stop technology or knowledge. The cat is out of the bag. A couple well placed nukes and Israel is destroyed.

we are linking israel with ties to 9/11 in this other thread, so how can they be interested in peace if they are linked to 9/11?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ALF88

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

One group seeks to steal, kill and destroy.

Then stop the Zionist group that seeks to steal, kill and destroy. If 450.000 can protest for lower housing prices the 450.000 can protest for peace as well.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

We are not in a position as a nation to judge on the matter.

I am not a US citizen.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Israel is a nation that was brought back into their land by God. God IS in a position to judge all the nations rightly. Before anyone was ever in the land of Israel, God placed a claim on the region for the Hebrew people.

I am sorrry there is no proof for that. Your religious texts and books are not enough. God doesn't exist, if he does, prove it to me.

edit on 4-9-2011 by ALF88 because: (no reason given)

atleast no one can prove that it's the jewish god that exists

reply to post by ntech


I've thought about this issue before. What Israel should do, is give them Statehood and give them money for land taken. Then, when the new Nation of "sheep and hatred" attacks them, they can steam roll over them and end the conflict once and for all.

I don't know what else would work. The other option, would be to become a US territory or State...then the US could move in and kick butt.

reply to post by ntech


Yes, but this isn't in the past, is it? The water isn't quite under the bridge yet!

The children and grandchildren of the people who had their land stolen and we're killed/raped are still angry and still having more of their land taken from them everyday.

Genocide is now, not something that can swept under the carpet and ignored for another 70 years. There won't be any palestians left by then!

why aren't the UN stopping this like they would with any other nation?

reply to post by gravitational


The Egyptians were the agressors? That is debatable. Nevermind that resolution 242 calls for the withdrawal of Israel from the occupied territories. It is nice to see you try to find a legal loophole which allows Israel to maintain the territories, but if that is what you are trying to do, I can safely say you are doing it wrong.

Even territories captued in a defensive war dosen't permit you to transfer civillians into said territories.

Frankly Israel isn't entitled to its own terms. It is entitled to the legal terms and the same thing applies for the Arabs.

I don't see any BS and I can see you are diverting this into another unrelated off-topic debate. I am simply saying that for Egypt to agree with Israel on peace in a bi-lateral rather than mulit-lateral agreement is a huge deal for the country. You can deny it all you wan't but it is only showing how ignorant and small-minded your approach is. Egypts peace treaty was essentially treason to the Arab world.