Football Players Penalized for pointing towards Heaven.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I'm sorry, but I think atheists are just generally overly sensitive and they expect people to take offense, but in reality, nobody cares all that much. In fact, I think atheists are often disappointed that they don't grab the attention they would expect.

Uh huh. I was Christian for about 60 years.

An admitted Atheist for the last 5.

I'd say - I probably have a better understanding then you do.

I disagree. I do not believe in a change in beliefs. I highly doubt you were a "Christian" for 60 years, and I highly doubt you are a devout Atheist now.

You see, I can admit that I was raised in a Christian household, but I never fully indoctrinated into the religion, and I can admit that I still believe in God, but I can also admit that I cannot define my God, and I certainly cannot personify my God. I could easily call myself an Atheist, just like someone can be a vegetarian and still eat fish, or I could easily call myself a Christian, even though I do not believe Christ is the only way to God, or that he is infallible, or I could call myself a Deist, because I believe in a singular God that goes by many names, or I could call myself a Taoist or Shambhalist because I believe in a pervading spirit that lives throughout all of nature and influences us in one way or another, or I could call myself a Satanist because I believe in the power of mankind, and I believe we all have the ability to transcend and become Gods, and I don't believe we should be subservient to any God.

You see, the minute you called yourself a "Christian" or an "Atheist" you gave up your right to pretend to understand more than me or anyone else. You see, my mind is still open, and I realize all of the labels are insufficient, but it hasn't hurt my faith. You see, I have a relationship with my God, but it is personal and I don't feel a need to try and define it according to any existing religion.

Sorry, but you are indoctrinated. You are a "reformed" Christian that is now addicted to Atheism in the same manner you used to be addicted to Church. It is the same as an alcoholic that replaces one vice with another. Your religion has never changed, only your label has changed, but your mind is just as closed as it ever was.

No offense to you, and you are certainly in good company, but your journey isn't over, I wonder what you will call yourself tomorrow?

ETA:
Since I realize this post is mostly off-topic, let me make this point: if it is this difficult to define one person's religion, and since symbology means so many things to so many different people, even within the same religion. Such as a finger pointing to the sky can be a sign to God, or to honor a fallen relative, or an ode to Zeus or a #1 sign, or a "sit and spin" sign, how can we possibly attempt to make rules limiting expression?

The referees can only be concerned with whether or not this was overt grandstanding and attention grabbing, they cannot worry themselves about whether or not it had any religious connotation. It is ridiculous to even debate that part of it.

Originally posted by tallcool1
This all amounts to religious persecution because it's in vogue to bash Christians these days.

Restricting ones ability to worship in public owned places or even private businesses is not persecution. Now if they start throwing Christians to the lions again that would be persecution.

Do people ever consider that the reason Christianity is most often the religion involved in such cases is that it's the most popular religion in the country. The odds are simply greater it will be the religion involved than some obscure religion like Mandaeism.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I'm sorry, but I think atheists are just generally overly sensitive and they expect people to take offense, but in reality, nobody cares all that much. In fact, I think atheists are often disappointed that they don't grab the attention they would expect.

Uh huh. I was Christian for about 60 years.

An admitted Atheist for the last 5.

I'd say - I probably have a better understanding then you do.

I disagree. I do not believe in a change in beliefs. I highly doubt you were a "Christian" for 60 years, and I highly doubt you are a devout Atheist now.

You would be wrong.

reply to post by Annee


Explanation: You need to listen to yourself more often and not get side tracked by divulging personal information!

Topic of discussion: Football Players Penalized for pointing towards Heaven.

Personal Disclosure: ...

reply to post by getreadyalready


Way to make this thread about another member instead of the topic!

Sorry, but you are indoctrinated. You are a "reformed" Christian that is now addicted to Atheism in the same manner you used to be addicted to Church. It is the same as an alcoholic that replaces one vice with another. Your religion has never changed, only your label has changed, but your mind is just as closed as it ever was.

There is nothing wrong at all pointing to God... but at the right time and place so it doesn't say cause a flag to be thrown by an overly zealous referee who we must support because by letter of the the law they were right.

It wasn't just a simple gesture ... it came out of the blue and was fully loaded.

P.S. I am a strong believer in my religious faith [which is ancient hellenism btw] and LIKE I SAID BEFORE this is getting blown way out of proportion! Please consider taking a chill pill!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


You're right. Thanks.

At least we can agree that it was an "overzealous" referee.

I would entirely agree with the penalty if the team had planned something ahead of time, or if the action took more than a brief moment, or if he whipped out a picture of his dead buddy, or something overt. My main disagreement is that this was a very brief gesture.

However, who is to say that religion played any part in it? It seems the fans and family are assuming it had a religious aspect, but perhaps he had just got under that referee's skin earlier in the game, and the ref was looking for the first opportunity for some payback?

I have a friend that used to get put into games specifically to give the refs grief, and then he would get into trouble and pulled back out! It was hilarious, and the coaches used it as a ploy.

Maybe we have all gotten off-track in assuming the opinion of a couple of people in the stands have any truth to them?

reply to post by getreadyalready


Explanation: St*rred!

Personal Disclosure: I just realized I fell into the religious non religious debate with my post! I would like to very much agree that the gesture could have been for any reason [including it was claimed to be for as you did point out many pages ago] and I would like to apologize for insinuating that the gesture was in any religious [although it may have been].

reply to post by getreadyalready


How's this for a different angle...

This is only an issue because the penalty led to the opposing team's good field position and game-winning field goal.

If this exact touchdown, "gesture", and penalty had occurred in the second quarter of a blowout game, no one would even be talking about it.

Point towards heaven? You mean, the damn sky?

It's a common gesture. Sometimes when I get really excited, I throw my hand(s) up or first-bump "the heavens".

What a ridiculous joke.

"The other side might be offended."

Yeah, I'm sure the other team is that sensitive. What if I worship the sun and the moon, can I point at those, or are we going to start lancing fingers and limbs off for anyone who doesn't exclusively cheer directly to the United States flag?

Has anybody posted a source where the ref explicitly said that the other team was penalized for pointing to "heaven"?

Excessive celebration penalties are usually for.....excessive celebration. Even NFL refs get all huffy about players jumping all over each other in celebration.

Everybody is turning this into something it's not.

I always found it ridiculous when players would do that or when the take a knee and make the sign of the cross when they made a touch down. It's as if God was involved in helping the player make the touchdown.

The same can be said about soldiers who go into combat and pray that God keeps them safe. I think the last thing a loving God would support is war and protecting someone who would be killing his own creations.

The best way to fix all of this is to take sports out of school. They have already taken the sport out of sports. Why not kick the spectators out for cheering? Investigate the school board over the scantily clad cheerleaders? Wtf people? Everybody who takes offense to every little thing is to blame here.

well im a football player, and if the rules say that endzone celebration isn't allowed then he can justly get penalized. and what you said about students being allowed to prey, you also said "as long as it doesnt disrupt other people" or something, well, celebration disrupts the game, thats why the NFL has rules against it. That being said, i think its a rediculous call regardless of the rules.

This is just yet more Progressive, leftist hatred toward self-expression and equal protection by the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment is really inconvenient for them. They like to tout it and claim that everyone is equal, but the hate spews out when anyone tries to express an opinion counter to theirs. Then up pops a new law to abridge our freedoms and liberties. It's really quite pathetic, but revealing all the same.

/TOA

reply to post by tracehd1


Erm can someone please tell me why they can't celebrate? I understand if they go totally mental, but celebrations are part of any game and whats wrong with them? In football here in the UK its fun to see some guys come out with really good, funny ideas. The only time platers have got done is insulting the crowd, pretending to snort the white line on the pitch, and taking shirts of.

This is odd

lol Annee is going to be one of the ones cheering when religion is outlawed and the religious are taken to concentration camps.

Originally posted by Annee

Ok - - although I expected the response to be about recognition of an Atheist symbol - - - in following with the discussion.

I will be more detailed.

What would be the response by many (probably most) fans and media if a player held up a sign with an Atheist symbol (and Atheism spelled out). Or a sign that said "God had nothing to do with this - because there is no god".

Are you seriously going to tell me this would be accepted?

are you seriously going to expect someone to answer this?

i'm sorry, but your hypotheticals are ridiculous.....atheist hand symbol? really?

This is my local news lol.


But this is totally weird in my opinion. Who cares if he pointed to the sky a couple times. I didn't even notice it until the video highlighted it.

People love to control one another. Especially the control freaks that work in schools.

I'm agnostic....seriously who cares if he pointed to the sky.

reply to post by tracehd1




OK was he in a huddle? That would be a no no. Did he use his middle finger? That, too, would be a no no. See we have to guess about the details. So the whole thing is BS.

reply to post by tracehd1


Since when is pointing to the sky specifically pointing to heaven...*facepalm*

This is probably further evidence of how the NWO rules us. They are trying to destroy every faith and religion on this planet so that it breaks whatever hope people may have if they ever try to resist the NWO.

Originally posted by The Old American
This is just yet more Progressive, leftist hatred toward self-expression and equal protection by the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment is really inconvenient for them. They like to tout it and claim that everyone is equal, but the hate spews out when anyone tries to express an opinion counter to theirs. Then up pops a new law to abridge our freedoms and liberties. It's really quite pathetic, but revealing all the same.

/TOA

edit on 31-8-2011 by The Old American because: (no reason given)

So your against the founding fathers on this one huh? You know the wall of separation between church and state? Every cries the left is taking our rights away and forgets all about the patriot act that was forced on us by the GOP. And everyone remembers how law abiding the last GOP was.