Football Players Penalized for pointing towards Heaven.

This is what religion does to people.
It makes you give up your power……..

These boys have been practicing for countless hours, played the game since elementary school,
Trained and improved their talents and skills and for what?

To give all the credit to some imaginary Deity .

Originally posted by OmegaLogos

Next time let the fans know what is going on before hand with say a gesture of a minutes silence for a fallen fellow human being and maybe wear some black armbands as a person tribute to the deceased if feel the need to publicly mourn whilst in the middle of a game!

I agree. I have no problem with a planned moment of silence.

I do have a problem with religious signs/symbols displayed by players during a game. (not personal gestures - like saying a prayer or crossing oneself sitting on a bench before going on the field).

Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand

Originally posted by WildWorld
reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand

 

Not all atheists get butt hurt about trivial crap like this so please don't group us all together, thanks.

If that was true, then your comment and this story would have never happened. Deal with it.

I'm telling you I'm atheist and I'm not butt hurt about this. So either I'm lying or you're wrong. Are you calling me a liar?

All I can say is that many of you Americans must be pretty uptight and repressed about displays of emotion in sporting events if you can get penalised for expressing a religious gesture on the field of play.

It's a good job they don't enforce this rule in football ( soccer ), otherwise you'd end up with no South Americans or Africans left on the pitch.

Seriously though, this is just plain daft. I can understand restricting celebrations which could be deemed to be inflammatory or offensive to others, but anyone who gets offended by this is clearly just a bigot.

If you don't adhere to the religious belief which is being expressed, then how on earth can you reasonably get offended by it ?

It doesn't mean anything to anybody who doesn't share the belief, so any normal person would just treat it as neutrally as any other celebration.

The problem is the perpetually affronted, professionally offended types always want something to whinge about, and always want to restrict other people's ability to do something which doesn't fit into their narrow-minded view of things.

reply to post by Annee


The fact that you find a person POINTING offensive is just stark crazy and with that level of intolerance you would fit in perfectly into any oppressive society. Offensive to the other team and patrons, give me a break...And they bloody well wonder why thing's are the way it is in this society. It's any wonder we get anything done.

I am offended right now that you find pointing in a direction offensive.

Oh so it's okay to have a moment of silence where I HAVE TO SHUT MY MOUTH but it's not ok, to point at stuff... Just wow.

There are enough legitimate violations of church & state separation that I fail to see why something like this even pings the radar. Firstly, there is no "heaven" to point to, and if he were to "point towards heaven" 12 hours after this it would be in the exact opposite direction. Secondly, placing a finger in the air doesn't appear to be religious to me.
Even as an atheist I'd refuse to take this battle.

I somehow get the feeling the team got a penalty for celebration and are attempting to morph it into a religious issue to gain sympathy.

Originally posted by tracehd1

Can anyone here convince me how anyone could have considered pointing towards heaven offensive? I would like to hear it. Legally I think *someone* could be held liable and here's why.

I agree the rules are to strict on this, but i found a example where someone point to the heavens and millions still find it quiet offensive.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Explanation: There are NUMBERED Jersies for a bloody good reason... also a team uniform has a purpose just like in the armed forces ..where the individual tends to be swamped by the camoflague of a similar look mob.

Personal Disclosure: Game On! And please don't grandstand! Thats the job of the fans who are in the grandstands and the cheer leaders! Stop stealing our fun ffs! :shk:

P.S. Me and my team mates would wait till the group huddle to bump fists and wink and nod and slap backs! And seriously there is only 2 people who are part of the game I need to impress ... the referee and MY COACH!

Originally posted by Mimir

Originally posted by tracehd1

Can anyone here convince me how anyone could have considered pointing towards heaven offensive? I would like to hear it. Legally I think *someone* could be held liable and here's why.

I agree the rules are to strict on this, but i found a example where someone point to the heavens and millions still find it quiet offensive.

edit on 31-8-2011 by Mimir because: (no reason given)

Point to the heavens? Methinks hes not pointing to the heavens, but meh, if you wanted to include a pic of hitler fine by me, but remember people here is pissed because of a guy pointing to the sky so...

Originally posted by TheRemedial
reply to post by Annee

 

The fact that you find a person POINTING offensive is just stark crazy and with that level of intolerance you would fit in perfectly into any oppressive society. Offensive to the other team and patrons, give me a break...And they bloody well wonder why thing's are the way it is in this society. It's any wonder we get anything done.

I have the right to my opinion - - as do you.

You tell me how fans and media would react if a player - in the same situation - held up an Atheist symbol.

These type situations - - don't swing both ways.

reply to post by Annee


Explanation: St*rred!

Personal Disclosure: I agree on the religious symbols BUT like OL said I would give a hail mary pass to the black armband.

I also agree that the religious ablutions [crossing oneself etc] can be done before the game in the changerooms! It is a personal thing after all! [edited to clarify.. ie between oneself and God]

All the fans should be looking at the teams mascot to guage how the collective team distilled down to an individual is reacting to the GOALLLLLLLL!

It's funny how that ref didn't throw the flag until he saw that kid pointing to Heaven. People get offended by the things they fear, and the majority certainly fear the Christian God these days; which will be partially proven by the negative comments I will probably receive for saying that.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


But you have to admit you have been entertained once in awhile by a completely spontaneous celebration?

What about Kerri Strug nailing her landing in the Olympics on a bad knee, and then gingerly lifting her foot off the ground and standing on one foot crying, knowing she had just nailed it despite her injury? What about the Lambeau Leap? What about Michael Jordan's game-winning antics? What about the players kneeling silently around an injured player, or an injured player waving to the fans as he's carted off the field?

How does one define religion in the first place? Is it religious to point at the sky? What about bumping your chest twice? What about kneeling with your head bowed? What about a black number emblazoned on a shoulder patch?

The sport itself is a sort of religion, so how can we possibly be offended by one gesture and not another?

We absolutely cannot remove emotion from the game.

reply to post by Juanxlink


I just tried to find what he asked for

Actually it is a bad picture taken from the floor up to make him look bigger. The angle makes it look like he point to the heaven, but it would be more horizontal than vertical in reality.

My point is that very small gesticulations can cause great anger, which is why the rules is made like that. If you dont believe me try walk thrue Berlin and make that gesture (you dont need to say anything).

Imagine a team of radical catholic's playing a team of radical muslim's extremists.........could evolve if you allow to much.

reply to post by Annee




such symbols exists ?

reply to post by Annee


To be honest I could care less if they dropped their pants and mooned the entire stadium. I could care less if they swear on television or use symbols or offensive slogans. I could care less about any of that for the simple reason is I feel people should be free to do and say what they want to so long as it does not physically harm another, SO LONG AS I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE TO WALK AWAY FROM THINGS I MAY FIND OFFENSIVE, LIKE THIS TALKING IN CAPS ~It doesn't bother me.

I may have been brought up in a so called politically environment, it doesn't mean I think it isn't a completely hypocritical one though; brought up in a system where school masters tell you how to think and what is wrong and right, what you can say and can't do with a side order of how you should react if you witness something.

I am not so fragile as to let another persons actions compromise my emotions.... THINK ABOUT THAT STATEMENT.

Originally posted by jeramie
It's funny how that ref didn't throw the flag until he saw that kid pointing to Heaven. People get offended by the things they fear, and the majority certainly fear the Christian God these days; which will be partially proven by the negative comments I will probably receive for saying that.

If a player stuck up a sign representing Atheism.

What do you think the response would be?

Please give me a serious honest answer.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Explanation: Cool ... take those players numbers and exploits down!

Then after the game findout who they were on the player roster for that game.

Then Gossip madly about them and write them up in the local newspaper or online version thereof ... this is what small town local team sports is about!

But please keep that off the field and for after the game!

Personal Disclosure : Otherwise its like eating dessert when your in the middle of the the main course!

If I may just inject a bit of levity into this thread?

Please, let's all take a moment together to chuckle at a Buffalo Bills wideout blaming God for a dropped pass.

I promise that's not an Onion article - this really happened last year!

Steve Johnson dropped a game-winning touchdown and after the game he tweeted the following:

"I PRAISE YOU 24/7!!!!!! AND THIS HOW YOU DO ME!!!!! YOU EXPECT ME TO LEARN FROM THIS??? HOW???!!! ILL NEVER FORGET THIS!! EVER!!! THX THO..."




As for the play in question, a flag in this instance seems harsh, especially considering the circumstances (go-ahead score with a minute to go). Of course there would be emotion. However, I highly doubt the official threw the flag because he saw a "religious gesture". Had he known the circumstances, I'd like to think he wouldn't have thrown the flag.

reply to post by Annee


#1, only Atheists would recognize it, so there might not be any reaction at all.
#2, if they just scored a touchdown or a game-winner for their team, I don't think any hand signal is going to make them a bad guy.
#3, if they are already well-liked and respected by their team and their fans, then the hand signal isn't going to change that in any manner whatsoever.

The problem in the OP is that the player was penalized. It impacted the game. It became part of the game itself. The problem wasn't that a few people may have been perturbed by it, everyone has a right to their opinion, but the problem is that the penalty could have potentially changed the course of the game.

So, if someone throws up an Atheist symbol, a few people might get perturbed, but in my opinion it should not be penalized any more than a chest bump, a high-five, or a front-flip.

reply to post by Annee


that's so dumb. i wouldn't care and i doubt many other would care also. people want to see the action during the game not so much during the 2 or 3 seconds they are celebrating after a TD.