12-year-old boy jailed for 30 years

Originally posted by caladonea
Here is a link that explains what really happened....pay attention please.

justice4juveniles.com...


This young boy made a mistake helping someone he thought was a friend....he did not kill anyone...and he is not a psychopath....he did not realize going in what his (so-called) friend had totally planned. He tried to talk his friend out of it.

My heart and prayers go out to him and his family. Pray for this boy....pray for mercy and his protection. I fear for him...have compassion people...where are your good hearts?

edit on 19-8-2011 by caladonea because: add more

Repeat,,repeat....I'm just saying....

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Originally posted by Brokenbackrest

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Wheras in European countries, especially Nordic Countries it is based more on Rehabilitation

Which is why we get things like the Norway shootings. Crime is crime, and a punishment must be harsh no matter how old the person is.

which are EXTREMELY RARE.

How often do you see shootings in America?

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)

How big is Norway? Per Capita I wonder how the crime stacks up... Go to a state (hell, more like a county) in the midwest America that's similar in lifestyle of Norway and I bet the crime rates are the same.

Apples and Oranges here my friend.

...i dont approve of the plea deal for lundy and, imo, it taints his version of what happened... he and gingerich shouldve been equally charged, convicted and serve the same time in a youth facility until they're 18, then transferred to an adult facility for the remaining years...

No smoke without fire.

Regards
Lee

reply to post by 2manyquestions


A juvenile does not have all the thinking and thought skills of an adult. They cannot appreciate their crimes in the sense that they understand all the repercussions of the crime. Any child after the fact may realize they did something wrong, panic, and try to cover it up. It does not mean that they knew what their actions would produce. It means that once they saw the result of their actions it was apparent that they did something wrong.

Most states presume children under 8 as not culpable of understanding a crime. Children 8-14 years usually have a rebuttable presumption that they are not culpable. However, the law says that evidence of covering up a crime could be used to show the child knew what they were doing was wrong. Some attorney needs to challenge these court opinions, because while evidence of covering up a crime could be indicative of culpability, in some cases it could mean the opposite. It could just mean that the child had no idea of what their acts would produce, until it actually happened, then guilt set in.

A 12 year old, generally speaking, does not fully understand any crime they commit. And a life sentence applied to a 12 year old is just plain wrong. No 12 year old, understand what life is, or how long it goes on for. Life sentences for a 12 year old is also disproportionate as a 50 year old who gets life has had 50 years free and probably won't live another 30 years to serve the rest of their sentence. A 12 year old will.

30 years sentence for a 12 year old kid is so medieval thinking!!

I'm sure a good bunch of doctors and lawyers could come up with a better, less brutal, solution, more in touch with Western World societies.

Originally posted by gncnew

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Originally posted by Brokenbackrest

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Wheras in European countries, especially Nordic Countries it is based more on Rehabilitation

Which is why we get things like the Norway shootings. Crime is crime, and a punishment must be harsh no matter how old the person is.

which are EXTREMELY RARE.

How often do you see shootings in America?

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)

How big is Norway? Per Capita I wonder how the crime stacks up... Go to a state (hell, more like a county) in the midwest America that's similar in lifestyle of Norway and I bet the crime rates are the same.

Apples and Oranges here my friend.

edit on 19-8-2011 by gncnew because: (no reason given)

Nope, Norway has one of the lowest homicide rate.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by JennaDarling

I never liked the American / British system if punishment, especially the American, it is more based on revenge and bitterness and locking up in retiliation / or murdering them back with the death penalty.

Wheras in European countries, especially Nordic Countries it is based more on Rehabilitation, and getting those people not only to pay for their crime, but more focus on getting back to being a useful member of society and undetrstanding what they did was wrong,

So basically just release them after some know nothing idiot shrink diagnoses them as fit to return to society? That makes about as much sense as 1st and 10 without Skip Bayless. I am glad that you're not a law maker. ~SheopleNation

Originally posted by ExPostFacto

A 12 year old, generally speaking, does not fully understand any crime they commit. And a life sentence applied to a 12 year old is just plain wrong. No 12 year old, understand what life is, or how long it goes on for. Life sentences for a 12 year old is also disproportionate as a 50 year old who gets life has had 50 years free and probably won't live another 30 years to serve the rest of their sentence. A 12 year old will.

Please tell me you are not seriously suggesting that a 12 year old wouldn't know that murdering someone is wrong? He knew what he was doing.

So this boy goes in at 12....30 years, worse case lets say he is out in 15, nearly 30 years old, conditioned by a brutal prison system, he will really be of benefit to society.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


thou shalt not kill is the most fundamental law there is. a 12 year old is old enough to understand that crime.

Lundy and Gingerich each fired two shots at Danner. Kosciusko County Detective Jonathan Tyler has testified Lundy talked about his plan to kill Danner with several boys on a playground in their neighborhood on April 20. Lundy then went back to his home and got Danner's revolver and semi-automatic handgun. After Lundy gave a signal, Gingerich, and another 12-year-old boy came into the Lundy house. Tyler said Gingerich went into the home through Lundy's bedroom window and Lundy gave Gingerich the handgun. Tyler continued, saying Lundy and Gingerich then went into the living room and sat on the couch and a chair waiting for Danner to come to the doorway between the kitchen and living room. When Danner did, Tyler said both boys fired two shots. After they fired the guns, Tyler said Lundy and Gingerich went to the front door where the other boy was outside to show him what had happened. Lundy then packed clothes, food, ammunition and fire arms and later that night the three boys left in Danner's car to go to Arizona. The police investigation stated that there is no evidence of abuse between Danner and Lundy.

www.cbsnews.com...

After reading through the thread in full, I found the above from a link that Rockpuck posted.

This says to me that he did know what he was doing and planned to flee to Arizona to sell T-shirts to "drug people".


It also says the age of the boy who's step-father was murdered, Colt Lundy, was aged 15 years of age, Gingerich is aged 12 years (as we all should know). I have said that I don't believe that humans are empty vessels to be programmed, but we are social creatures. And I see this as a younger male being persuaded into
executing this man by the older boy. Not that it excuses the act at all. This appears to be an extreme occurence, well the most extreme occurence of peer pressure I have ever seen. The strange aspirations to "go to Arizona to sell T-shirts" is what makes this really stand out. Who's Idea was it? ( I'll have to read the link again I guess) Odd...

I have myself been peer pressured into doing things I didn't really want to do. Eg; Smoking, shoplifting, teasing others. And I was ashamed of myself afterwards and I continue to be as I recall these events. Except for the smoking...I love smoking.

So as I have said in my earlier posts, I wanted more evidence, and it was provided on page 3. Rockpucks link(though i don't agree with his-Rockpucks- verdict on the situation) says there was no indication of abuse by lundys' father, and that this is really old news too. But still it provided some interesting debate I must say.

I still believe that at the very least that Gingerich could be rehabilitated so that he doesn't end up going in and out of the "revolving door" prison system of the U.S. for the remainder of his life. I wouldn't give up on the other kid either. The longer these kids are in the slam, the worse the influence on them from other hardened inmates will be. It'll turn them into something even worse.

There is still hope for these kids. There's still hope.

Originally posted by snarfbot
reply to post by ExPostFacto

 

thou shalt not kill is the most fundamental law there is.

Yes, but our law does not come from the Bible.

Originally posted by ForeverDusk

Originally posted by snarfbot
reply to post by ExPostFacto

 

thou shalt not kill is the most fundamental law there is.

Yes, but our law does not come from the Bible.

Are you saying there is no religous people in power in America?

Thats a new one.

As long as people keep believing that hard punishment will merit anyone, so long will we live in a violent and unjust world. You put a 12 year old kid away for 30 years the likely-hood of it turning into a dysfunctional destroyed individual will increase by ten-fold.
But well, people want revenge. Justice is such a silly word for revenge in most cases. The justice system can be so vulgar and corrupt. Weak people are completely destroyed and powerful influential people get away with anything.
What a world we live in.

reply to post by Brokenbackrest


This 9 year old mentality of an eye for an eye is really out dated.

Does sentencing him for 30 years really fix anything? Or is it just adding to the already no good problem. That's what you have to ask yourself.

Also you're still forgetting, the kid is twelve. If you were twelve and looked up to me and I brain washed you into thinking it was cool to kill people that is exactly what you would think. You see it every day in your country with little boys from the ghetto. Influence plays a very big part when you're twelve years old.

Yes, lets just lock our problems away. We can just keep them in their own little space and forget about it right?

Did locking away and/or ignoring something ever solve the problem? Absolutely not.

We need to DEAL with things.

How did the 12 year old get to this position? Who is responsible for setting up the circumstances leading to his committing murder?

Or we just label him as crazy and lock him up while we wait for the next "POTE" (Product of Their Environment)
to kill someone.

When the video started playing on the website she said....America's justice system often known as one of the best...ROFL I busted up laughing so hard I almost choked to death on my kool aid

reply to post by ForeverDusk


so what? its a pillar of civilized society, regardless of religion.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
When the video started playing on the website she said....America's justice system often known as one of the best...ROFL I busted up laughing so hard I almost choked to death on my kool aid

Brainwashing at its best..

Now, careful here or you will be labled anti-american and eurotrash etc etc...

You know the drill..