How long before the UK/French/Arab-style riots come to the US?

reply to post by jdub297


Within the next 50 years, guessing optimistically.

Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by Diyainoue
Arab-style "riots" will not come to the US, they know how to overthrown a system, if they won't get shot or bombed. (respect for Egyptians, interesting elections.)

The civil rights riots of the '60s were to bring down a system that neglected the poor and minorities. They evolved into disgust over an unjust war. Both lines succeeded in getting what they wanted.

UK/France riots are lame, they have nothing to do with overthrowing a system or they do not understand how to overthrown their system because although they are at the bottom of the pyramidescheme they did not mess with the foundations. That could come to the US

The socialist democracies are seeing riots as a result of reductions of benefits to a dependent class brought up in a nanny state. The US is going to be forced to adopt new policies with lower benefits for those raised to be dependent upon gov't services.

An Egyptian made it clear in one sentence when we talked about it. "we had nothing to lose, you have everything to lose, although you are at the bottom, you got water, electricity, communications etc, we had that sometimes but we couldn't count on it."

Americans are not satisfied with the basics, they want gov't-paid food, medicine, housing and education. When those are threatened, people will react.

I see all three of the "motivators" of foreign unrest present here today.
i can also see a "copy-cat" mentality gripping groups who see others being disruptive for their own, disparate, needs.

Since I followed Egypt closely I will focus my reply on explain with examples of Egypt. In Egypt we saw the whole community rise against the oppressive system. The whole community, doctors, artist musicians, all different layers of classes. They will not attack each other. (only the ones who are scared to lose their advantages of being part of that oppressive system) They stopped the system. It was clear, it was a we and them. Of course there was and always will be violance but the MSR (main stream revolution) was not about violance, In the UK and france it was all about violence and sharing your

The whole western crap about "we didn't see that coming", well they just didn't look. A few years ago they explained to me that they would show the world that with non-violent (non-violent means I will not attack but I do defend) protest they would stop. The protest was well prepared but due to oppressive it missed the spark. The spark came from Mohammed Bouazizi.

Their former government did not help them like a nanny state does. If the US decides not to be a nanny state anymore, the people who like to rely on government help will lose that. Of course they will be angry. Will an uprise bring them what they seek? It is hard to do that, before you need to build something new, you got to finish the old. A new distribution of everything sounds just like communism. I know that Americans expect to have a high standard of basic needs, but it does not comply with the contribution there is now in the society. (I want to make sure that you do understand that I see that a lot people do not get the chance to make it happen for themselves, besides the ones who don't care to make it happen and just leech. Besides this people who did make it happen do not choose to invest in their fellow members of that society).

I see all motivators yes. I can't see a "we" the people. I expect you will be fighting the system and each other at the same time. You can call it a revolution yes, just not arab style like the OP mentioned. With a revolution it will cause lots of problems in the coming years before it turns better. Companies will defend there property (I have the right to defend my property) they will hire people for that to violently defend that (they pay me good, got to feed my family), people will attack them because they think they have the right to have it. The people in the US will react, but it will be different.

I probably shouldn't say this, but if you want a revolution and hit the whole system, lower class, middle class and upper class, companies and what so ever, just cut the power.
As it is the one resource a western civilization needs to exist that does not grow in nature.

I see copycat movements everywhere, they are just the same sheep in a different herd but that is what a civilization is, a herd it needs to be leaded. If the recent riots would have overthrown the system, and the lower class would be the new control they would be the new oppressors as life taught them.

reply to post by Diyainoue

I see all motivators yes. I can't see a "we" the people. I expect you will be fighting the system and each other at the same time.[/url]

I have to agree.

It will be more personally-motivated than politically.

jw

I know that very few here will agree with me, but I think we are through the worst of it.
Europe is going to take the hit. Things will get worse there.

I am usually worried and nervous about the future. But somethign just feels to me as though the building pressure has been released. I think that the very public debt ceilign situation brought the kind of awareness that permeates ATS to the public at large. And they aren't going to take it. So, we will not need riots.

I am not saying break out the glitter and unicorns just yet. But I do believe the worst is behind us.
We are going to print enough money to get out of this. And a unique combination of world events is going to let us get away with it.

Awesome.

I predict a serious uptick in manufacturing based in the U.S. in the next five years.
I predict unemployment below 7 by end 2012 at latest.

Sudden dramatic improvement coming.

I a not sure why it's coming though, and that part still makes me nervous.
SIlver is still too low for an economy on the brink of meltdown.
They know something we don't know.

Sorry that this post was disjointed. I don't usually "predict" and this is just gut feeling based on my eclectic research preferences. Something changed in the past two weeks. Can't finger it. But we are about to upswing. Slowly at first and then big.

reply to post by watcher3339


I wish that was true. But I keep seeing stories like this:

Police in Maryland are not alone in their scramble to find creative, affordable and efficient ways to fight mayhem from flash mobs -- groups of people who gather in one location quickly after being summoned online. Law enforcement in big cities and small towns are all scrambling to, as Smith put it, "catch up with teenagers" when it comes to monitoring crime planning on the Web.

This summer, spontaneous incidents of group violence -- dubbed "flash robs" -- have happened in Minneapolis, Chicago, Cleveland, New York and Washington, among other cities. Most episodes involved groups of young people looting stores or assaulting pedestrians and then running off.

www.cnn.com...

And this:

The weekend shooting of three teenagers at a large late-night "flash mob" gathering prompted local authorities to pass an ordinance on Thursday that sets curfews as early as 9 p.m. for people under age 18.

At the urging of Mayor Sly James, the Kansas City Council passed the ordinance 13-0, allowing police to issue citations to parents whose children violate the curfew. Parents can be fined up to $500 per violation.

Three youths aged 13 to 16 were injured by apparently random gunshots at about 11:30 p.m. on Saturday night in an upscale shopping and restaurant district called Country Club Plaza.

www.reuters.com...

Note that these were not "outliers," occurring in some impoverished, or distressed gangland; they were in the heart of downtown and upscales parts of major metropolitan cities.

I hope you are correct in your belief that the numbers are dropping.

jw

Some people see the London riots as a prelude to the same in the U.S.

The scenes of violence that emerged from London last week—the burning buildings and rampant looting, the police and firefighters under attack—were undeniably upsetting, but that’s not to say they were unfamiliar. The riots not only bore a strong resemblance to several recent instances of violent crime in the United States, they hearkened directly to the incendiary outbursts of racial violence that plagued this country from 1965 to 1968—from Watts in Los Angeles, to Detroit, to the H Street corridor in Washington D.C. But if the expressions of unrest are following the pattern from that previous era, the policy responses likely won’t be—and that bodes poorly for any hopes of sustainably ending the violence sometime soon.
...
As long as this age of austerity endures, the West won’t make much progress—economically or socially. Optimism will remain the scarcest resource of all. And the only thing we might have an abundance of, unfortunately, is the sort of violence we saw last week in London.

www.tnr.com...

They look to the uprisings of the '60s and '70s, despite American prosperity; and juxtapose similar unease agains the backdrop of austerity. They don't see a lot of light at the end of the tunnel.

jw
jw

reply to post by watcher3339


The unreported facts tell a deeper story:

Race riots. That is the only accurate way to characterize the actions of mostly minority flash mobs suddenly appearing from Chicago to Philadelphia to the D.C. suburbs to loot white-owned retail stores and even violently attack white citizens.

The liberal mainstream media has tried to keep this quiet. But the awful truth is showing up on talk radio and in other alternative media. And if it doesn't stop suddenly, soon something will happen that cannot be covered up, and the whole country will be talking about it.

spectator.org...

The MSM can hide this only so much.

jw

what about the LA riots style riots?

theres lots of LA style people in America and hardly and Arab-style ones.

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by watcher3339

 

The unreported facts tell a deeper story:

Race riots. That is the only accurate way to characterize the actions of mostly minority flash mobs suddenly appearing from Chicago to Philadelphia to the D.C. suburbs to loot white-owned retail stores and even violently attack white citizens.

The liberal mainstream media has tried to keep this quiet. But the awful truth is showing up on talk radio and in other alternative media. And if it doesn't stop suddenly, soon something will happen that cannot be covered up, and the whole country will be talking about it.

spectator.org...


Several years ago a bunch of people were running into Walmarts in poor D.C. suburbs and blatently running away with stuff. I know some of these areas you are talking about well, and trust me, it isn't political. It isn't really even poverty. It's a high crime rate in an area that got "gentrified" with the real estate bubble. Then the foreclosures kicked in.... Not like Arab spring in any way.

The MSM can hide this only so much.

jw

reply to post by watcher3339


If you want the truth, look at media such as the Christian Science Monitor, IBD, and euro media.
They no longer feel obligated to protect BHO and the status quo.

jw

Originally posted by ignant
what about the LA riots style riots?

theres lots of LA style people in America and hardly and Arab-style ones.

Mayor Bloomberg sees it the way I do; there's a lot of discontent just waiting for a trigger,

Mayor Bloomberg warned Friday there would be riots in the streets if Washington doesn't get serious about generating jobs.

"We have a lot of kids graduating college, can't find jobs," Bloomberg said on his weekly WOR radio show.

"That's what happened in Cairo. That's what happened in Madrid. You don't want those kinds of riots here."

M ayor Bloomberg predicts riots in the streets if economy doesn't create more jobs

reply to post by jdub297


They won't. Illegals are still licking their metaphorical wounds from their display of idiocy several years back where they protested with mexican flag's. If muslims were to try something similar it would end far,far,far worse for them.

The England and France riots are similar to the LA riots of 1992.

They were ignited by similar events : the Rodney King's case in LA, the shooting of Mark Duggan in London, Zyed Benna and Bouna Traoré electrocuted in a power substation in Paris.

In these three cases : the victims were criminals or offenders, they were trying to escape an arrest, the incidents were perceived as police brutality or overuse of force.

These three riots are consequences of the social situation as stated in the OP, inequalities, poverty, unemployment launched by an incident involving the police.

So similar riots have already happened in the USA, I don't know if it can happen again. I don't think calling them Arab style riots is pertinent.

It seems that the calls to violence are starting to come from public figures on the left:

During a talk to promote his new book, Here Comes Trouble, liberal firebreather Michael Moore told an audience of college students at Bunker Hill Community College to “reject this vision of America that has been thrust upon us,” and that to fix it “will require a rumble.”

www.mediaite.com...

Typical violent liberal calling for war. What do you expect? His president told his followers to "punish their enemies". It's pretty clear these people want a fight.

You might have heard about Andrew Breitbart saying something to the affect of, "We Have Guns, We Outnumber Liberals". Well, he said that in response to Moore and people like Jimmy Hoffa Jr. who told a crowd of Obama supporters, "lets take those sons of bitches out".

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Moore, Waters, Hoffa,Trumka and Obama ("punish your enemies") are all now on the record calling for politically-motivated violence.

jw

The only places where these riots could develope would be in the inner cities where there are strict gun bans. One of the things about the Rodney King riots that is seldom mentioned is the group of Korean-American store owners who produced rifles and shotguns to protect their property. The rioters promptly headed in the other direction.

reply to post by JIMC5499


I'm not sure, but the "Occupy Wall Street" demonstrations appear to be almost ripe for an insurgent group to incite violence.

Occupy Wall Street Spreads Class Warfare Across the Country

Occupy Wall Street is spreading across the country into Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, Baltimore and other American cities.

What began as a small group of disaffected protesters hunkered down near the financial district in New York City is quickly becoming a national, and potentially global, movement.

www.forbes.com...

With intense police presence, a spark could incite real violence from either side.

Compare/contrast "Arab Spring" and "American Fall."

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by jdub297

 

Within the next 50 years, guessing optimistically.

Nope. The OWS movement has already turned violent overseas. It is only a cold-front away here.

Forget the Marxist, Socialist, or extreme rhetoric for a moment. According to U.S. Army Field Manual 3-19.15, “demonstrations, civil unrest, public disorder, and riots happen for a number of reasons. Some of these reasons are economic hardships, social injustices, ethnic differences (leading to oppression), objections to world organizations or certain governments, political grievances, and terrorist acts.” It appears that the Occupy movement comprises most, if not all, of these reasons.

According to FM 3-19.15, there are three key social crowd developments. Sometimes, these developments occur in order as the below listed, yet, at times, there is no specific order of the growing threat. Occupy started with phase one, “Public Disorder,” and quickly moved into phase two “Public Disturbance.” The only remaining phase is “Riot.”

Public disorder.
Public disorder is a basic breach of civic order. Individuals or small groups assembling have a tendency to disrupt the normal flow of things around them.

Public disturbance.
Public disturbance is designed to cause turmoil on top of the disruption. Individuals and groups assembling into a crowd begin chanting, yelling, singing, and voicing individual or collective opinions.

Riot.
A riot is a disturbance that turns violent. Assembled crowds become a mob that violently expresses itself by destroying property, assaulting others, and creating an extremely volatile environment.

Rest assured, it is highly likely that the U.S. Occupy debacle will soon turn into violence—possibly full scale riots. The tepid fall weather will soon turn cold. No clear objective will limit corporate or government leaders in pacifying demands of demonstrators. Emotions will begin to supersede logic. Instigators will inevitably agitate others and violent actions will likely follow.

The Three Phases Of Civil Unrest And The First Two Reached by #OccupyWallStreet

By this time next week, the violence will have reared its head.

jw

reply to post by jdub297


As i said, the only place that it could happen, would be in the areas that have strict gun control laws.

Here's something to think about. There are certain rules that the Police have to follow at all times, civilians are not restricted by these rules. If there is a violent riot, the threat of physical safety criteria of self-defence is met, which entitles the use of lethal force.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
reply to post by jdub297

 

As i said, the only place that it could happen, would be in the areas that have strict gun control laws.

Here's something to think about. There are certain rules that the Police have to follow at all times, civilians are not restricted by these rules. If there is a violent riot, the threat of physical safety criteria of self-defence is met, which entitles the use of lethal force.

Most rioters are not otherwise armed, and even the most restrictive of jurisdictions do not prohibit the possession of arms in your home or place of business.

In the given circumstances, the use of handguns and long-arms would not matter.
there are many objects that can used with lethal force in the defense of self and others, all without any restrictions on possession otherwise.

Insofar as LEOs are concerned, any legal justification that applies to civilians appies to them, as well..

jw

reply to post by jdub297


Aside from the already-violent EU protests, there are the beginnings of a viollent under-current across the US.

An “Occupy Cleveland” protester tells police she was raped in her tent over the weekend.

cleveland.cbslocal.com...

A man accused of exposing himself to children at least five times across Seattle was arrested early Tuesday morning. Officers had been given a composite sketch of the suspect and detectives learned he had been at Westlake Park taking part in the Occupy Seattle protests.

www.komonews.com...

Thieves preying on fellow protesters

Occupy Wall Street protesters said yesterday that packs of brazen crooks within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.

www.nypost.com...

jw