The Qur'an- a "perfect work of Arabic" that is disorganized, badly written, and largely not Arabi

From the Teapot Atheist:

• The Qur'an claims to be a literary masterpiece, but it is highly repetitive, badly edited, and in some places simply incoherent
  
• The Qur'an claims to be eternal and immutable, but there are many well-known revisions and interpolations in the text
  
• Many of its parables and Bible stories are simply dumbed-down versions of the Biblical stories
  
• Despite claiming to be the perfect Arabic work, the original text contains loanwords from Syriac, Hebrew, and other Semitic languages
  

for ats there are a lot of people that are easily swayed by anti arab and muslim propaganda eh.

reply to post by stoptheinsanity2012


Really we are easily swayed, how about first hand experience of the ignorance, arrogance and violence of Muslims, is that the MSN telling me what to think ??? It is very hard to defend them and not tar them all with the same brush when 99% of them practice a barbaric religion that treats women like slaves and refuse to adapt to any society they live in.

Originally posted by On the level
reply to post by stoptheinsanity2012

 

Really we are easily swayed, how about first hand experience of the ignorance, arrogance and violence of Muslims, is that the MSN telling me what to think ??? It is very hard to defend them and not tar them all with the same brush when 99% of them practice a barbaric religion that treats women like slaves and refuse to adapt to any society they live in.

the same could be said and fairly about christianity.

Some scary stuff in OZ yesterday.
A group of 4 Muslim men broke into a guys house in Sydney in the middle of the night, 3 held him down while the other gave him 40 lashes with electrical cord for drinking booze. Basically imposing Sharia law.

I live in a Muslim country and while most are fine there is a very vocal minority who are (I cant think of any other way to put it) fecked up beyond belief!!!

Islam is about control and one of its main tenents is brainwashing, having to pray 5 times a day and repeat the same words over and over is brainwashing, no other term fits.

To be fair I find Islam only slightly worse than Christianity and slightly better than Judaism

Originally posted by Homoousia316
From the Teapot Atheist:

• The Qur'an claims to be a literary masterpiece, but it is highly repetitive, badly edited, and in some places simply incoherent
  
• The Qur'an claims to be eternal and immutable, but there are many well-known revisions and interpolations in the text
  
• Many of its parables and Bible stories are simply dumbed-down versions of the Biblical stories
  
• Despite claiming to be the perfect Arabic work, the original text contains loanwords from Syriac, Hebrew, and other Semitic languages
  

I recently read the Quran. As well as reading the Quran, I have finished all the works of Rumi the Sufi. Although I am a Christian, I value all other perspectives and feel that truth is anywhere we choose to look. As long as our view of God is based on love, we can see Him at work in the entire world. I also firmly believe that man's enemy is Satan. I recently discussed these issues in a Muslim forum.

Jesus is a messenger to the Muslims, just as Mohamed is considered a messenger. As I have a broad understanding of many ancient works, I realized something right away about this fact.

Does it seem to be a paradox that Jesus message was to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself? I am unaware of how the Muslim stands with this message so I wanted to get an understanding first hand in their forums. I call this a paradox because Jesus goes on to define the neighbor as the enemy. In Luke 10, this is the story of the good Samaritan. The Samaritans and the Jews were bitter enemies. A Jew fell on the path of life one day and His fellow Hebrews passed him by. Only his enemy stopped to help. The Samaritan went so far as to pay his way at an Inn and offered to come back if he needed more.

The reason I mention this paradox in my mind is simple: Issac is the brother to Ishmael. This means they are family. The entire rivalry is based on a birthright argument as stated in the Bible. Regardless of who was right, we know from God that the family is the most sacred bond that anyone can hold. My questions in the forums was really one of confusion.

How can one brother hate the other brother and still claim to be a follower of Jesus message of love? It seems that this cancels belief in God since Jesus states that a true believer loves his neighbor (even enemy). Since Issac is Ishmael's brother, then the family bond should override this feud over the birthright, even in the eyes of God. Would God approve of this family feud carrying over to bloodshed and violence?

Is it not safer to understand that Satan is the real enemy here? I know it sounds cliché to use Satan, but is it hard to believe a malevolent being exists in our large universe? 90% of our universe is invisible to our senses. It stands to reason that consciousness is not restricted to just visible substance. It also stands to reason a benevolent being, bound by law, would seek to protect us in a way that allows us to learn how to defeat an enemy by truth and not hatred. If God is what He claims, then truth is the sword to use.

Throughout history, the entity known as Satan has sought to divide and conquer. This is the Roman tactic to keep nations subservient to the tyrant. It seems man and God are bound to using man as the proxy for their battle. It seems obvious that a world descending into chaos, brother fighting against brother, is specifically what Satan would want. If peace can come from love, then why is hate trying to dispel hate. Only love, it seems, can dispel hate. Both sides seem to be bound by some cosmic law of free will and influence of that will.

One more question. I see the flaming sword protecting the tree of life as bias and hatred against others. Since Jesus says that the key to eternal life is love for everyone, including God and enemies, is it safe to say that Satan is using this knowledge to blind both brothers to the truth? Is it possible that Jesus was trying to tell us that a true believer brings peace to the world, not with the sword of hate, but with the sword of truth? LOVE?

As I contend HERE , this story we live is a lesson for the development of our sentience. We must make the choice of love or suffer our mistake.

reply to post by stoptheinsanity2012


I call it as I see it and have experience it, and if you are smoking weed and drinking with them, then they are not practising muslims, you sure you are not hanging about with Hindus or Sheiks who are a great example of a religion that adapts to new home very well. I worked with Hindus and Sheiks for years and they are as Scottish as me

reply to post by stoptheinsanity2012


I call it as I see it and have experience it, and if you are smoking weed and drinking with them, then they are not practising muslims, you sure you are not hanging about with Hindus or Sheiks who are a great example of a religion that adapts to new home very well. I worked with Hindus and Sheiks for years and they are as Scottish as me

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Luke 14 25-33

I rest my case.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Can't resist a few more. From Mathew.

Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14
Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19
Jesus tells his disciples to keep away from the Gentiles and Samaritans, and go only to the Israelites. 10:5-6
Very relevant to American politics today.
Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

And the Qur'an's version of events. Well not that much different.

"ALLAH is HE besides Whom there is none worthy of worship, the Living, the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining. HE has sent down to thee the Book containing the truth and fulfilling that which precedes it; and HE has sent down the Torah (Law of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guidance to the people; and HE has sent down the Discrimination (judgement between right and wrong)."—Qur'an, Surah 3:3-4

These are connected to the unnerring all encompassing words of God according to who you listen to and as such should be unable to being taken out of context.

Skeptics Annotated Bible
Christian Answers.net

Perhaps it just needs a god editor, and a re-release.
This has happened with at least one extremely popular Religious book.

Originally posted by goldentorch
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Luke 14 25-33

I rest my case.

I am not sure what you intended, but...

Christ never said anything that was not a parable. He was saying by comparison to His love to us, we must show equal love to Him, even if it means...
Matthew Henry:

"...philosophy will teach a man to look upon these with contempt; but Christianity carries it higher. [1.] Every good man loves his relations; and yet, if he be a disciple of Christ, he must comparatively hate them, must love them less than Christ, as Leah is said to be hated when Rachel was better loved. Not that their persons must be in any degree hated, but our comfort and satisfaction in them must be lost and swallowed up in our love to Christ, as Levi’s was, when he said to his father, I have not seen him, Deut. 33:9. When our duty to our parents comes in competition with our evident duty to Christ, we must give Christ the preference. If we must either deny Christ or be banished from our families and relations (as many of the primitive Christians were), we must rather lose their society than his favour. [2.] Every man loves his own life, no man ever yet hated it; and we cannot be Christ’s disciples if we do not love him better than our own lives, so as rather to have our lives embittered by cruel bondage, nay, and taken away by cruel deaths, than to dishonour Christ, or depart from any of his truths and ways. The experience of the pleasures of the spiritual life, and the believing hopes and prospects of eternal life, will make this hard saying easy."

reply to post by goldentorch

Can't resist a few more. From Mathew.

Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

Matt 7:13-14 13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Most people wander from life to life in pride. You must be born again into another life. Few find the narrow path of love and live many lifetimes. Look at our society of 7 billion. Will there be 500 million find love enough to escape the material world for the spiritual kingdom? Those who place themselves first (pride) will be the last out. Those who place themselves last (humility) will find their way out first. Matt 20:16 You need context to rightly divide scripture. Also see the parable of the vineyard workers who were paid equally for more and less work. Matt 20

Each of your other references are the same. Hillel's seven rules must be used to rightly divide scripture. He was the Rabbi who taught Paul and Simeon. Salvation is free if you know the cost. Read the Bible for all it's worth, but don't expect to receive free salvation if you make it cost your soul. Knock and the door opens.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Salvation from what exactly. The original sin of eating from the tree of knowledge and understanding the difference between right and wrong, picking up sticks on the Sabbath? The way religious people come accross to me is more about the sickness in their own souls and some deep seated sense of guilt. All the facetious statements about love and how we need love. What we need is food and shelter the rest are a luxury. We can actually procreate without love.
This is from somebody who truly believes in the human spirit and the capacity to love and the capacities of love but your endless repetitions of the only love is god etc etc speak only of some spiritual loss in yourself and a lack of any empathy with humanity. The religious peoples pathological cries for love speak to me of a deep need in you that god is obviously not satisfying.
Let's also examine your pathological cries to be understood and for us to understand your books. It speaks to me of a deep lacking in self awareness and or guilt and a deep suspicion of the realities of the world around you. These are elements of mental illness especially your seperation from reality.
Now we have psychoanalysis I feel this is religions Nemesis.

during two combat tours in the middle east this is what i learned about muslims and th QURAN "a woman for childbirth and a boy for pleasure.....Man Love Thursdays anyone?

This post answers. LINK

As does this post. LINK

Read my 3 articles linked in the other thread. I back my faith with solid evidence and a platform of truth. Read and take the time to reflect. Let your bias sit idle for a few minutes as you reflect. See it for what it is. One hour of your evening could mean a lifetime of understanding. Consider that you could be in error. I have spent my entire life doubting to get my faith in order. But I did it from a love of truth, which I finally realized as originating with God and the Bible. All I can do is express my view and consider yours. I see bias and hatred against God as reflected toward me. What I reflect back is honesty and a clear spark of light.

Originally posted by goldentorch
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Salvation from what exactly. The original sin of eating from the tree of knowledge and understanding the difference between right and wrong, picking up sticks on the Sabbath? The way religious people come accross to me is more about the sickness in their own souls and some deep seated sense of guilt. All the facetious statements about love and how we need love. What we need is food and shelter the rest are a luxury. We can actually procreate without love.
This is from somebody who truly believes in the human spirit and the capacity to love and the capacities of love but your endless repetitions of the only love is god etc etc speak only of some spiritual loss in yourself and a lack of any empathy with humanity. The religious peoples pathological cries for love speak to me of a deep need in you that god is obviously not satisfying.
Let's also examine your pathological cries to be understood and for us to understand your books. It speaks to me of a deep lacking in self awareness and or guilt and a deep suspicion of the realities of the world around you. These are elements of mental illness especially your seperation from reality.
Now we have psychoanalysis I feel this is religions Nemesis.

reply to post by Homoousia316


I respectfully disagree with you. It's very easy for us to get caught in the hype, if you say that the Qur'an is highly repetitive, think about the books like the Bible, where every other sentence says "And it came to pass." Come on now, whether Muslims think the Qur'an is the complete word of God, the same goes for Christians, Jews, and anyone who follows their own religion, how to unite them all? To spread the message that we are all human beings and pretty much everyone teaches to a degree that before you can even know God, Jehovah, Allah, etc, you have to know you're fellow human beings first.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by stoptheinsanity2012


It was just a question, was not being condsending, I have never met any muslims that drink and smoke weed, cheers for the insult though, you make a great addition to the ATS membership