How I fell for ideologies I completely disagree with

Hello fellow ATS'rs

This op is about how fear reduced my reasoning capacity and made me give up my personal beliefs and buy into ideologies I actually completely disagreed with.

About a few weeks or so I gained a victory over my fragile mind. It's a long story, but I think it will be a funny read.

So where did this all begin?
It began with the truth movement here on the internet. I must point out specifically to Alex Jones and his show.
Without the proper guidance, insight and deeper knowledge I was introduced into the conspiracy thought movement. Impressed by all this information that seemed (and still does) to make so much sense to me I became an avid fan of Alex Jones. His way of talking, ranting and exposing the fraudulent system really appealed to my naive mind. It seemed as if finally there was a guy who had the guts to say it all out loud. Somebody not afraid to go past the peer-pressure so dominant in our society. Someone who went straight to the root of the problem and showed it to the world.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/690e059f95b0.jpg[/atsimg]

However. In this process of character admiration I began to forget one thing and that is ideology. It did not occur to me that behind the information Alex was throwing at me there was an ideology at work. Yet as I was not primarily concerned with his ideology and even fooled myself into thinking being able to withstand his ''personal idea's'' I continued to listen to his show, thinking I was merely investigating the powers behind the scene. How wrong was I!!

It suddenly occurred to me that I had begun to agree with many of his stand points. This is a very strange thing. How can this happen? Because in reality I do not agree at all with his ideology! In fact I despise it! I am not a Christian and in fact I dislike organized religion. Secondly. I am not a conservative! I think the American constitution just as every other political system has many flaws, inadequacies and needs to be critically re-evaluated. And third. I do not support free market Capitalism either! (im not a socialist/communist either, just in case)

Yet still. There I was cheering at his idea's, agreeing with them, defending them!! All of a sudden I was advocating what I began to call true capitalism! I began sympathizing with Christianity and found myself in awe of the Libertarian ideology and the so ''perfect constitution''. There I was admiring the forefathers. The greatest men that ever lived. Those who kicked the butts of the English. Those who loved freedom and equality and wrote the perfect constitution so that ''the people'' could pursue true happiness. I had become what you call a true conservative! But I never realized it.

I forgave the entire American/Western(so Europe as well) stupidity and ultra-consumerist irresponsible mentality and blamed it all on the Elite and their evilness and despised the brainwashed masses who were merely sheep in need of awakening. Can you believe what was happening? My world view was becoming very black and white in just a short period of time. The people against the Illuminati.

I didn't seem to care that Alex Jones is actually a very childish and immature man that runs after people calling them pieces of trash, who cusses at his callers, who interrupts each person he interviews every 20 seconds and who has the nerve to call a great thinker like Noam Chomsky a new world order shill whilst interviewing him. Someone who begins yelling the moment someone disagrees, calling them all sorts of names.
No! In fact I liked it. I liked the aggression. The I'm mad as hell mentality really appealed to me. I'm right and everybody who disagrees is wrong and everybody must think what I think. I liked it, it made sense to me.

How did this happen? How did I forget to respect individuality? Because that is really what it comes down to, isn't it? When I believe that only I am right and others need to know and think what I think I am actually disrespecting others freedom of thought.

I think I found out. It's the conspiracy information and the fear it creates. Because you are constantly told that you're on the edge of extinction, on the edge of a new world war, that a totalitarian state is in the rising... Because you are told that something very dangerous and imminent is about to happen, your reasoning capacity reduces and you start looking for the first hand solution in sight! The fear and excitement made me drop my personal ideologies and believes and accept any other ideology that succeeded in convincing me of its superiority and necessity given the grave current situation we find ourselves in.

And that is how I bought into ideologies that I in fact totally and completely disagree with. Now isn't that something?

Talking about your Hegelian Dialectics at work here!

* The thesis is an intellectual proposition.
* The antithesis is simply the negation of the thesis, a reaction to the proposition.
* The synthesis solves the conflict between the thesis and antithesis by reconciling their common truths, and forming a new proposition
en.wikipedia.org...

Thesis: New world order, totalitarian state, mass extermination etc
Anti-thesis: Fear, demand for solution
Synthesis: Libertarianism, free market capitalism

Of course, this process is wholly personal and does not account for everyone as we are all different.

Fear indeed is a powerful tool. I learned my lesson well. (Thanks to Alex I might add)

I am now absolutely freed from Alex Jones,his ideology and his approach. I also feel a strong resentment for the truth movement out there who with their fanaticism are really getting close to some kind of a collectivist cult. Have a look at this video. In this scenario some guy,( charlie veitch is his name) decided after being a truther to go along with the official 9'11 narrative. The amount of hate and dogma the truthers throw at him is just despicable. What happened to freedom of thought? I also think that a large portion of these people really suffer some sort of neurosis complex where they get so upset about things that really are of little significance in my opinion. Just listen to the girls voice (see video) and her irrational obsessive anger because someone else has a different opinion. This really isn't healthy at all.
Perhaps we can go deeper into that(without crossing the border of ideology, not sure if that's possible though)

In any case. I felt this might be an interesting read into how ideology can slip into your mind by sheer fear-mechanisms.

Thanks for reading!

Welcome back from the dark side, I presume this is the effect that Beck and Limbaugh have also. Interesting story.

You will have a greater appreciation for this site and others if you don't buy into all they hype and fear that's generated. You don't have to follow the crowd everytime an earthquake doom thread is posted or how every government action is part of the NWO's plan to take over the world.

It becomes easier to filter out the B.S. when you step back and look at both sides of the issue. If somebody makes a post that seems very one sided, like half of them on the front page are, I will go to their source and do my own research, I usually follow that up with even more in-depth studying to find the other side of the issue that has been overlooked.

Then I will post a response usually to the inevitable comments of i'm a shrill or a troll

nevertheless very good post and glad you've evolved.

Good thread, S+F; more people need to read this, it may not be universal but I'm positive that the ideological journey you've just described is not specific to yourself (I, at least, went through pretty much the same - just not with Alex Jones).

Flag the crap outta this.

I'm not quite sure what you think the problem is.

On the one hand you say you liked it.

On the other hand it obviously disturbed you enough to where you're now glad to be away from it.

I guess I can't quite identify with this issue, because I've never been so [un]fortunate as to find any idea/philosophy/religion/institution/individual with which I entirely agreed with. Maybe it's because I'm cursed with the habit of always thinking for myself.

Just remember that TRUTH is always stranger than fiction, and usually it's less fearful!

who interrupts each person he interviews every 20 seconds and who has the nerve to call a great thinker like Noam Chomsky a new world order shill whilst interviewing him.

A Chomsky fan got their feelings hurt... I'm sorry,,

Alex Jones is ENTERTAINMENT
I love it for that..

Anyone taking it seriously needs
to understand it is political sensational entertainment..

You don't like free market capitalism?

Well move to Iran they would love you their..

I must admit I fell into the very same trap. Then I started reading some threads on ATS that ranted and sometimes debunked AJ. My awakening was fairly slow. Over a process of months.

I do still listen to Alex from time to time. He does land good guest interviews occasionally. I especially like listening to Dr. Paul Craig Roberts. I find myself flipping back and forth between Alex and Thom Hartmann (he seems to be a polar opposite of AJ). At times I can't believe some of the stuff that comes out of Hartmann's mouth either.

I've recently thought of an idea and am currently working to get it going. I used to work at a talk radio station. I produced several shows and hosted one of my own. Two of the shows I produced were political. A nationally syndicated liberal and a local neocon. I've decided to take my experience and start a podcast. Somewhat middle of the road so I can use satire to poke fun at guys like AJ and Hartmann. That wouldn't be the premise though. I do want cover political issues and some conspiracies. (Not in the Jesse Ventura style)

I am working with a local comic for the satire. I have a friend who is a TSA agent and another who is former marine, a police officer, owner of a private security firm and is trying to get a Blackwater contract. These 2 assets will help with some of the other content.

I hope I can put together a decent and entertaining show. I should be up and podcasting in the next 2 months. Its taking some work to free up the time to do it.

Originally posted by hillynilly

who interrupts each person he interviews every 20 seconds and who has the nerve to call a great thinker like Noam Chomsky a new world order shill whilst interviewing him.

A Chomsky fan got their feelings hurt... I'm sorry,,

Alex Jones is ENTERTAINMENT
I love it for that..

Anyone taking it seriously needs
to understand it is political sensational entertainment..

You don't like free market capitalism?

Well move to Iran they would love you their..

Perhaps you can ask questions instead of using projection?

Originally posted by dadgad

Originally posted by hillynilly

who interrupts each person he interviews every 20 seconds and who has the nerve to call a great thinker like Noam Chomsky a new world order shill whilst interviewing him.

A Chomsky fan got their feelings hurt... I'm sorry,,

Alex Jones is ENTERTAINMENT
I love it for that..

Anyone taking it seriously needs
to understand it is political sensational entertainment..

You don't like free market capitalism?

Well move to Iran they would love you their..

Perhaps you can ask questions instead of using projection?

Do you think Chomsky is a great thinker?
Do you think Alex Jones treated him badly?
Did that piss you off and hurt your feelings?

I use common sense when reading rants as yours no questions needed..
Your post told me what you think..

Yes
Yes
(of course not i'm open minded)

ps. we know what jones said about chomsky turned you off..

Which is totally fine with me...

I just sense some bitterness..

Originally posted by SuperManny
I'm not quite sure what you think the problem is.

On the one hand you say you liked it.

On the other hand it obviously disturbed you enough to where you're now glad to be away from it.

I guess I can't quite identify with this issue, because I've never been so [un]fortunate as to find any idea/philosophy/religion/institution/individual with which I entirely agreed with. Maybe it's because I'm cursed with the habit of always thinking for myself.

Just remember that TRUTH is always stranger than fiction, and usually it's less fearful!

Well you see. I was caught up in the ''we will be exterminated'' very soon state of mind. In that panicky sort of mind-set I was very attracted to Alex Jones his approach, it felt correct. I didn't realize that I was being indoctrinated at the same time, or let me put it this way, I let myself be indoctrinated. I accepted his ideologies as necessary because of this situation.
Only after someone I met introduced to me the necessity to look critically at ideologies, I realized what had happened to me. Do you understand now?

Originally posted by hillynilly

Originally posted by dadgad

Originally posted by hillynilly

who interrupts each person he interviews every 20 seconds and who has the nerve to call a great thinker like Noam Chomsky a new world order shill whilst interviewing him.

A Chomsky fan got their feelings hurt... I'm sorry,,

Alex Jones is ENTERTAINMENT
I love it for that..

Anyone taking it seriously needs
to understand it is political sensational entertainment..

You don't like free market capitalism?

Well move to Iran they would love you their..

Perhaps you can ask questions instead of using projection?

Do you think Chomsky is a great thinker?
Do you think Alex Jones treated him badly?
Did that piss you off and hurt your feelings?

I use common sense when reading rants as yours no questions needed..
Your post told me what you think..

Yes
Yes
(of course not i'm open minded)

ps. we know what jones said about chomsky turned you off..

Which is totally fine with me...

I just sense some bitterness..

edit on 5-7-2011 by hillynilly because: (no reason given)

Yes I think N Chomsky is a great thinker, a respectful well spoken man with intelligent idea's. Do I think Alex treated him badly and did that hurt my feelings? No, that is not exactly the case. It just proved Alex's childlike state of mind, what a paranoid bigot he really is and how little respect he has for other opinions. I also think he was out of place as Chomsky simply has 10 times the brain. You must understand, I discovered that interview around the same time this person told me to look critically at ideologies.

Originally posted by kro32
You will have a greater appreciation for this site and others if you don't buy into all they hype and fear that's generated. You don't have to follow the crowd everytime an earthquake doom thread is posted or how every government action is part of the NWO's plan to take over the world.

It becomes easier to filter out the B.S. when you step back and look at both sides of the issue. If somebody makes a post that seems very one sided, like half of them on the front page are, I will go to their source and do my own research, I usually follow that up with even more in-depth studying to find the other side of the issue that has been overlooked.

Then I will post a response usually to the inevitable comments of i'm a shrill or a troll

nevertheless very good post and glad you've evolved.

Thank you.

Originally posted by leemachino
I must admit I fell into the very same trap. Then I started reading some threads on ATS that ranted and sometimes debunked AJ. My awakening was fairly slow. Over a process of months.

I do still listen to Alex from time to time. He does land good guest interviews occasionally. I especially like listening to Dr. Paul Craig Roberts. I find myself flipping back and forth between Alex and Thom Hartmann (he seems to be a polar opposite of AJ). At times I can't believe some of the stuff that comes out of Hartmann's mouth either.

I've recently thought of an idea and am currently working to get it going. I used to work at a talk radio station. I produced several shows and hosted one of my own. Two of the shows I produced were political. A nationally syndicated liberal and a local neocon. I've decided to take my experience and start a podcast. Somewhat middle of the road so I can use satire to poke fun at guys like AJ and Hartmann. That wouldn't be the premise though. I do want cover political issues and some conspiracies. (Not in the Jesse Ventura style)

I am working with a local comic for the satire. I have a friend who is a TSA agent and another who is former marine, a police officer, owner of a private security firm and is trying to get a Blackwater contract. These 2 assets will help with some of the other content.

I hope I can put together a decent and entertaining show. I should be up and podcasting in the next 2 months. Its taking some work to free up the time to do it.

I agree. The people that come to his show are very fascinating characters. I for example am quite interested in Tsarion and very impressed by Jordan Maxwell. However these 2 have fairly different ideologies than Alex has. Maxwell opposes all religious institutions and considers himself a spiritual person. The same could be said about Tsarion who does not embark on this us against them mentality, but rather tries to disseminate the ego, its origins and how we are really responsible for this situation.
Alex invites all kinds of people on his show, yet he rarely addresses their differences in ideology. He makes it seem as if they agree on everything, nothing could be further from the truth. I personally think they come to his show just because he lets them talk about the conspiracy in general. And that is certainly a good thing, because it will reach ears.
For example when he had Peter Joseph on the show he really tried to destroy him and put a lot emphasis on his disagreement with Peters view on religion. Yet when it comes to Peter's views on religion as portrayed in his first Zeitgeist film it is a complete copy of Maxwells work. Still when Maxwell arrives at his show this disagreement in ideology/philosophy is never mentioned. I find that a little strange.

Anyway, good luck on your show. I'm looking forward seeing it.

Originally posted by posthuman
Good thread, S+F; more people need to read this, it may not be universal but I'm positive that the ideological journey you've just described is not specific to yourself (I, at least, went through pretty much the same - just not with Alex Jones).

Flag the crap outta this.

Thanks. Tell me. Who was it in your case?

reply to post by dadgad


dadgad i wish more people would break on through to the other side as you have. i think several people get lost in the world of people paid to point in differing directions. just as ones head may spin from ingesting too much of the flotsam & jetsam on this and so many other websites.

i think today it is more difficult than ever to keep ones head firmly bolted on straight. when i was young there was a few local AM radio stations, a handful of TV channels, some magazines and a lot of newspapers. these days its like trying to play baseball with eight pitchers letting their best sliders, knuckle balls and other pitches rain down on you all at once. it's hard to see the forest for the trees.

reply to post by LargeFries

First, OP, excellently written. I hooked myself into a cult in the early 70's so your tale is familiar. Maybe it could be included as study material for membership here.

Now then, Largefries

i think today it is more difficult than ever to keep ones head firmly bolted on straight. when i was young there was a few local AM radio stations, a handful of TV channels, some magazines and a lot of newspapers. these days its like trying to play baseball with eight pitchers letting their best sliders, knuckle balls and other pitches rain down on you all at once. it's hard to see the forest for the trees.

From the sound of you, I think we are of the same generation.

What you point out here, is I think, the unreported biggest story today. The influx of information and the influence on the individual and society at large.

From the dawn of man, people lived their entire lives basically in thrall to one story, one belief system. This story was adhered to generation after generation by everyone in the family, tribe, and nation. There was what there was and it was true and right. There basically was no choosing what to believe. But now?

Now I am reminded of Yeats.
    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

The center cannot hold. Just what is being unleashed here is beyond me but it sure is interesting, what I can keep up with at least.

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by LargeFries

 

First, OP, excellently written. I hooked myself into a cult in the early 70's so your tale is familiar. Maybe it could be included as study material for membership here.

Now then, Largefries

i think today it is more difficult than ever to keep ones head firmly bolted on straight. when i was young there was a few local AM radio stations, a handful of TV channels, some magazines and a lot of newspapers. these days its like trying to play baseball with eight pitchers letting their best sliders, knuckle balls and other pitches rain down on you all at once. it's hard to see the forest for the trees.

From the sound of you, I think we are of the same generation.

What you point out here, is I think, the unreported biggest story today. The influx of information and the influence on the individual and society at large.

From the dawn of man, people lived their entire lives basically in thrall to one story, one belief system. This story was adhered to generation after generation by everyone in the family, tribe, and nation. There was what there was and it was true and right. There basically was no choosing what to believe. But now?

Now I am reminded of Yeats.
    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

The center cannot hold. Just what is being unleashed here is beyond me but it sure is interesting, what I can keep up with at least.

Tell me about the cult you were into? I'm always interested to hear such stories. What ideology did they have?

reply to post by dadgad


Moonies. Do you know of them? Rather than spewing about them here, I suppose I should really do a thread about them. And me.

- done

You don't have to buy into everything Jones has to say, but ignoring it could be more dangerous in the long run.
The way I see it, people should always, expect the worst but hope for the best.