A question for those who hate taxes

I've noticed that people who are supposedly the most patriotic Americans have a tendency to hate taxes. So I have two questions for those of you:

1. Do you realize that paying taxes is the most patriotic thing you can do? Why would you not want to contribute to America's success/ allow America to continue? (This is NOT a debate about America's success)
   
2. Do you realize that not paying taxes makes you no better than the illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes?
   

Thoughts?

Wouldn't it be awesome if by paying taxes we got services? Oh wait we do.

Wouldn't it be awesome if by paying taxes we got more services? Oh wait republicans.

reply to post by adeclerk


If they spent the money the least bit wisely, I wouldn't mind. Killing innocents and bailing out multi millionaires at our expense ain't cool with me.

Originally posted by adeclerk
I've noticed that people who are supposedly the most patriotic Americans have a tendency to hate taxes. So I have two questions for those of you:

1. Do you realize that paying taxes is the most patriotic thing you can do? Why would you not want to contribute to America's success/ allow America to continue? (This is NOT a debate about America's success)
   
2. Do you realize that not paying taxes makes you no better than the illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes?
   

Thoughts?

By patriotic you mean, financing wars and murdering innocent around the world? Giving aid to dictators around the world while our own people suffer and die in despair? Hundreds of thousands of our soldiers coming back with various mental issues leading to suicides because they were protecting the interests of the rich on our tax dollar?

Perhaps you're talking about our universal healthcare program where if we pay taxes we get everything for free? Free college education? Sorry, wrong country.

I think you need to look up patriotic before you throw that word around.

Khar

reply to post by adeclerk


Paying taxes is the process of helping the IRS manage the debt on the loans the US has taken from the FED.

The FED is not a federal nor an American run function.

Therefore paying taxes cannot be a patriotic act.

The second question is not worth answering.

These are my thoughts.

Peace

wouldnt it be nice if my money wasnt used to kill innocent women and children in other countries?

How about if it wasnt used to build military bases in areas we dont need to be. Or if we didnt send it away by the billions to some other country while we cant even take care of our own civilians.

Them being able to tax us over and over on our money is also the reason they are able to wage war after war.

what this patriotic american hates is his tax money goes to people who dont deserve it..

pick your special interest,

the fact of the matter half this country pays taxes and the other half doesnt

and as the constitution says all taxes must be uniform throughtout this country and they are not.

we revolted over a tea tax those were the most patriotic americans we have ever had

what americans have become is gutless sheep who keep getting the shaft.

reply to post by adeclerk



Well I am unaware of US taxes, but I imagine it is broadly similar to the UK system.

At the moment, in the UK, we have seen a lot of waste by Government; money frittered away and funneled abroad.

I think people resent waste, rather than the paying of taxes - if the Government did not waste so much, our taxes would be lower and more realistic.

For example The UK taxpayers will give over £600 million to Pakistan alone .

I personally would rather see that money helping ourselves and our close allies - wouldn't that money be better spent helping UK, US and allied soldiers who have been injured? -In my opinion it would.

Is it any wonder people hate taxes, when our own countries are crumbling, and our tax pound or dollar is helping other countries?

All valid points, thanks for the input, guys!

Too bad we can't have more control over where our taxes go, I know we are supposed to have control by voting, but it seems like neither of the major parties are looking out for the interests of the common person.

I don't and won't pay taxes because I cannot vote, I cannot own a gun, and I have no civil rights left.

Simple as that...does it really matter why?

reply to post by adeclerk


I would agree with you, however my problem with taxes is where they go and what they do after they have left my paycheck.
I do not want to pay for someones retirement and medical after only a few years of service to the company, I had to work almost 30 years to get mine.
I do not want to prop up a foreign countries wants when my countrymen have bonified NEEDS.
There is too much that is happening with the rewards of the sweat off my back, now if we could have some control then taxes could be a good thing.
Until then, I'll complain.

Every penny you pay in income tax goes directly to the federal reserve to cover interest payments on loans that the government should have never had to pay. They legislated away their own right to print money to a private bank. The only explanations are they either didn't understand how the system works or more likely, they were part of a conspiracy to rob the American people blind.

The national debt is a sick joke. It is the difference between what they are borrowing from the fed and what they are paying into their loans.

Paying taxes to a private banking entity isn't patriotic, it's ignorance.

reply to post by adeclerk

“If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, and give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses. And the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they do now, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mis-managers to account; but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains around the necks of our fellow sufferers. And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for a second, that second for a third, and so on 'til the bulk of the society is reduced to be mere automations of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering. And the forehorse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression." - Thomas Jefferson

There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for forcing someone to pay a Federal income tax, other than robbing them of their livelihood. I have seen hard working men and women who could not make ends meet because of taxation; and because of the fact that they were so heavily taxed, they had no choice but to rely on government handouts.

The only reason why we even pay a Federal income tax is because of the corrupt banking system of the Federal Reserve.

There is nothing patriotic about handing money over to a bank to pay off a fictional debt.

reply to post by adeclerk


This question makes no sense at all. Be specific, your statement is so vague as to be more of a flawed strawman question then a real question.

Restate the question by defining what tax: state, local, sales, income, business, corporate, fees, licenses, VAT, surcharges, fines etc. State who is "supposed" to pay and isn't, then state the facts as to why folks can avoid paying tax by following the rules - not breaking them. Corporations that don't pay tax are following the rules, not breaking them.

Second, you need to accept the fact that these are all OPTIONAL. Your question seems to imply that even those who have no reason to pay tax should.

Third. The last question is just beyond stupid. I know many "illegal aliens" as you call them who pay more tax than most corporations and many people.

Lastly, if you want to simply provoke people, do so - just call them names. But this question set up is like something out a random sentence creator program, there is no logic, no connection, nothing but bumper sticker meme's the government and schools have tossed out for years assembled into an incoherent paragraph designed to provoke people. Think, then rethink, then think again, then write, then rewrite, then edit, then rewrite again. Put an original thought into it.

Originally posted by adeclerk
I've noticed that people who are supposedly the most patriotic Americans have a tendency to hate taxes. So I have two questions for those of you:

1. Do you realize that paying taxes is the most patriotic thing you can do? Why would you not want to contribute to America's success/ allow America to continue? (This is NOT a debate about America's success)
   
2. Do you realize that not paying taxes makes you no better than the illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes?
   

Thoughts?

So why is it Patriotic to pay taxes?

I think that what most people don't like about paying taxes is the waste involved, which is truly shocking. Taxes can pay for many mutually beneficial services. Fire departments, libraries, roads, defense-all those make a good deal of sense. The problems arise when a well-meaning nanny-type person decides someone needs "services" and uses taxes to provide them. This quickly turns into a situation where money is taken from producers and given to non-producers. As Margaret Thatcher said, "The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money."

For example, in my state (Washington) the state budget went up 80% from 1999 to 2009. Inflation plus population growth was less than 40% during that time. What happened to that other 40%? The Democrat controlled legislature and governor hired thousands of new state employees, threw money at "service" after "service" and wound up several billion dollars short when the recession hit and sales taxes dried up. The problem was that citizens didn't even see this happening because sales taxes drove increased spending. If property taxes had been used to fuel this limitless flame, people would have noticed, but sales taxes are on nearly everything you buy and with people buying lots of new cars, the money was there, so the state spent it.

And that's the issue right there. Government will ALWAYS find ways of spending money, even if they have to change definitions to do it. What you have to do is create "unserved" populations. Here's how it's done. Let's say you have a library that has historically offered children's programs in the library. lady librarian gathers the kids, gives them a puppet show, encourages them to read. Good thing, right? We've been doing it over 100 uears. People are generally FOR this sort of tax expenditure.

But now the feds offer grant programs for new and innovative programs. The feds will pay for this, so let's think of something to do. I know! We've got all these kids in daycare because both parents work. Let's devise a program for the librarian to go out to the daycares with the puppet shows and a bunch of books. Thise poor unserved children will then be served and their lives will be richer and better! (Now COULD the daycare have brought the kids to the library? Probably, but Shhhh! We'll never get the money if you think that way!) So we apply for a grant, get the ,oney, buy a van, hire a librarian, buy a 'daycare collection' and away we go spending, oh, $200K or so. We did it by dividing the population of kids into two and proclaiming one set was "unserved," even though statistically this would be difficult to prove and you shouldn't look too carefully at how the data was manipulated.

The next year the grant is up and the library is faced with paying for this new innovative service without government grant (tax) help. Woe is me! We need more taxes to keep this wonderful program going! And THAT'S what Washington has done over the last ten years. They have devised many new innovative ways to spend our money. But if you ask the average citizen, "Does the state provide more services today than it did ten years ago?" The answer is that there's nothing particularly better about the state now. It's just that the state pays tens of thousands of new state employees to do "something useful," though no one ever asked the citizens if they thought so, too.

IMO the states could get buy with a whole lot less taxes because we don't really NEED all these "services" that the state bureaucrats think we do. Having the state support you creates dependancy on the state. Why are the Indian Tribes poor? Because they have been supported by the state. Why are they beginning to do well now? Because they are beginning to support themselves rather than rely on the BIA.

Now, as far as NOT paying taxes, that would be 47% of American households today. Soem other interesting stats:

From 1986 to 2004, the total share of the income tax burden paid by the top 1 percent of income earners grew by nearly half, from 25.8 percent to 36.9 percent.

Over that same time, the burden of the bottom 50 percent of earners was almost halved from 6.5 percent to 3.3 percent.

The Tax Foundation has noted that in 2000, a year before the first tax cuts under Bush, roughly 30 million tax returns had no income tax liability. Every dollar those earners made they kept.

By 2004, a year after the second round of cuts was passed, 43 million returns had no tax. It estimates that, in all, more than 25 million Americans have been wiped off the federal tax rolls just by President Bush.

OK: To summarize, then.

The top 1% pay over a third of the taxes.
The top 50% pay about 96% of the taxes.
The bottom 50% pay a little over 3% of the taxes with 43 million returns paying NOTHING at all.

You want to know why you don't have a job? It's because the $1.00 that could have been invested went to the government instead. And yet you can sit there with a straight face and say, "We need to tax the rich."

Paying taxes is a good thing. If we do not, we end up like Somalia, which has almost no central government. I suppose thats what the patriotic anti tax payers want.

reply to post by adeclerk


It is because, the People who don't complain about taxes don't make enough and pay very little.... while the people who have worked hard all their life end up floating the bill.... I don't want to work hard all my life, so some punk on welfare can drive a better car then me. It doesn't pay to work hard anymore.

reply to post by adeclerk


income tax = illegal

Most of these people who dont want to pay taxes just want the govt to collapse so they can loot rape and pillage with impunity. They wont ever admit it but thats the truth.