Persistent contrails in the Korean War

Just reading a report by a RAF officer flying with the USAF during hte Korean War - Sabres vs Migs - apparently afficianados of the "Mig Alley" game from 1999 reckon it's one of the best strategy guides ever written - despite being an actual combat repot from 1952.

Anyway - there are several mentions of contrails being used to spot enemy a/c, and use of them to deceive too - eg this paragraph stands out:

94. The F.86s climb out and generally form up in flights of four aircraft at altitude. A patrol area is quite often assigned to each squadron and, on reaching the YALU river, a patrol is set up perpendicular to the sun. Depending on contrail level, one flight from each squadron will patrol below the contrails, one in the contrails and, if possible, one above the contrails.

and

101. Head-on attacks are possible, and indeed a number of Migs have been shot down in this manner. The rate of closure is naturally great, somewhere in the region of 1200 m.p.h. The positioning for this type of attack, however, is much easier, particularly when the Migs and F.86s are both in the contrail level.....

and earlier on it seems the commies knew about persistent contrails too -

The Mis Leaders, conscious that the F.86s were able to watch their contrails on the North side of the YALU river as the Migs climbed to their operating height, started to peel off smaller Mig formations from the main formations before contrail height was reached. The F.86s wore still watching the contrails and trying to position themselves for an attack in the event of the Migs coming across the river. Eventually, the Migs did come across, high, as usual, and at great speed with the F.86s all trying to cut them off. In the meantime, however, the peeled off Mig flights, generally 8 to 12 aircraft, crossed the river and flew around many thousands of feet below (18,000 to 23,000 ft below).

(from para 56)

(spelling is as per the original)

how about them F-86's & Migs both poisoning the Nth Koreans and Chinese with aluminium & barium way back in the 1950's!!

Funny how no "chemtrailer" has tried to debunk this yet.

I hear talk of evidence, but it seems to only be chatter coming over the airwaves.

S&F

Also funny...

Barium is used in aluminum alloys to enhance corrosion resistance. Guess what airplanes and their engines are often made of?

Finding trace amounts of these metals in a jets exhaust is not surprising at all.

Originally posted by Fiberx
Finding trace amounts of these metals in a jets exhaust is not surprising at all.

And given that Aluminum Oxide makes up 1/6th of the Earth's crust, it's pretty hard not to find aluminum pretty much everywhere.

We all agree contrails have been the use of war games. Jet fuel was also different back then. Contrails are different from chemtrails...as everyone has been saying all this time. Nobody is denying the use of contrails in previous wars. I've seen movie posters of films in the black and white era of hollywood featuring contrails, etc... This still does not state anything otherwise, sorry.

So contrails have existed since then, great, thanks for informing people of ?... Nothing ? lol i found the thread to be an interesting read, but it has nothing to do with chemtrails ? as you say this is about contrails.

Originally posted by deathproof
Contrails are different from chemtrails...as everyone has been saying all this time.

What's the difference? The contrails in WWII and the Korean war also sometimes persisted and spread. The encyclopedia says:

Contrail, streamer of cloud sometimes observed behind an airplane flying in clear, cold, humid air. It forms upon condensation of the water vapour produced by the combustion of fuel in the airplane engines. When the ambient relative humidity is high, the resulting ice-crystal plume may last for several hours. The trail may be distorted by the winds, and sometimes it spreads outwards to form a layer of cirrus cloud.

www.britannica.com...

So, what is the difference?

So, what is the difference?

Faith in the chemtrail religion.

reply to post by deathproof


How are they different?
Why are they different?
How do you know they are different?

A lot of people saying something many times does not make it truth. What specifically caused you to believe in "chemtrails"?

reply to post by Vanishr


That's the point. There are no "chemtrails", there are only contrails.
This thread shows that persistent contrails, what is usually the dividing line on what is a "chemtrail" or not, have been talked about a lot longer than "chemtrails" have been claimed to exist.
What do you think the difference between contrails and "chemtrails" is?
How can you tell the difference between the two in a video or picture?

Originally posted by Vanishr
So contrails have existed since then, great, thanks for informing people of ?... Nothing ? lol i found the thread to be an interesting read, but it has nothing to do with chemtrails ? as you say this is about contrails.

One of the constant memes of the chemtrail hoax is that contrails cannot persist for more than a few minutes.

Chemmies are never quite precise about how long those few munites are - I've seen figures from 10 minutes to 30 minutes - and no justification is ever given for why that is the case.

Jet fuel was not very different "back then" - it was still hydrocarbons that generate a lot of water when combusted. JP-4 was standardised by hte USAF in 1951 as a 50-50 blend of kerosene and gasoline.

It was supplanted by JP-8, which is all kerosene, by 1996.

However civilian jet aircraft have never used it.

with minor exceptions, civilian aircraft have always used Jet A or Jet A1 - teh difference being the addition of an anti-static agent to Jet A1 - the infamous Stadis 450 is an example of the anti-static agents used in Jet A1.

Both Jet A and Jet A1 date to the 1950's - the British Standard first specifying Jet A1 seems to have been DERD 2494 from 1965 - befoer then the standard was DERD 2482 from 1947 - which essentially specified illuminating kerosene, albeit with increasingly stringent requirements for flahspoint, etc as it was reissued over the years.

Eg see aircraftjetfuels.blogspot.com...

So while jet fuel is different now, it is not so different as to change the fundamental fact that burning hydrocarbons makes a lot of water, and that water will hang around for as long as atmospheric conditions allow/require it to.

reply to post by Vanishr


It has everything to do with chemtrails since thousands of people on this site are ignorant enough to believe that airliners are being used en mass to poison them, when in fact they are only seeing condensation in the air.

The only evidence they present is pictures of condensation trails or videos of the chinese seeding clouds with what amounts to grains of salt....

Are people attempting to create rain? Yes

Is the mystical, invisible, all powerful NWO trying to kill you? No

a contrail is by defenition - normal excess burnt fuel from the engines while in flight wich slowly fall and fade
chemtrails by defenition - is not normal excess burnt fuel but purpose dumping of chemicals not normal or natural above urban and rural areas not standered on flight routs for destructive or experimental purposes

thats the diffrence

Originally posted by EDL2011
a contrail is by defenition - normal excess burnt fuel from the engines while in flight wich slowly fall and fade
chemtrails by defenition - is not normal excess burnt fuel but purpose dumping of chemicals not normal or natural above urban and rural areas not standered on flight routs for destructive or experimental purposes

thats the diffrence

edit on 17-5-2011 by EDL2011 because: (no reason given)

Is there any evidence to support your hypothesis?

So far no one has came forward with any.

Originally posted by EDL2011
a contrail is by defenition - normal excess burnt fuel from the engines while in flight

well that's about as wrong as you can possibly be - it has nothign to do with excess fuel at all!!

It is the water vapour that is produced by combustion of fuel that has condensed into teh atmosphere.

wich slowly fall and fade

it will slowly do something - probably not fall though. It wil fade, or disperse or actually GROW depending on teh atmospheric conditions that surround it.

chemtrails by defenition - is not normal excess burnt fuel but purpose dumping of chemicals not normal or natural above urban and rural areas not standered on flight routs for destructive or experimental purposes

That is certainly one of the definitions - but all the definitions are given by whoever wants to provide one - ther is no definitive definition.

thats the diffrence

That plus there is no evidence fo chemtrails existing.

reply to post by Fiberx


Any chemtrail thread ive seen, ive never seen anyone who see's chemtrails claim they are being created by airliners ?

This seems like you've taken it upon yourself to inforce this view upon others.

reply to post by Vanishr


The search option is a wonderful thing.

Get to know it

reply to post by GringoViejo


Good to hear, thanks for pointing that out to me, as if i didnt already know it was there...

reply to post by Vanishr


Obviously not.

But you're welcome

Here's my uneducated and untrained eye giving my definition since 1996:

Contrail = excess of water and condensation in vapor trails from an aircraft... Trails last anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 minutes, depending on moisture levels in the air, weather patterns and jet streams.

Chemtrail = excess of chemical spraying in vapor trails from an aircraft. Trails last anywhere from 30 minutes to 1 hour, depending on moisture levels in the air, weather patterns and jet streams... yet turn into man made clouds and turn a bright clear blue sky into reflective, dull white cloudy skies, with rain ensuing within a few hours, most likely drifting to another nearby city, bringing light showers.


Why do I frequent this board anymore? Seriously.