Mass Arrests, Tear Gas, Sound Weapons used Against West Illinois University Students

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by colbyforce

 

So you are going to ignore the questions then... Typical when you cant defend your point.

I ask again

What do you know about the topic at hand? What do you think should have occured.

Do you find it acceptable to get so drunk as to start fires, destroy property and attack people with beer bottles?

Please answer these questions..

I'm afraid we're all just chasing our tails at this point. See ya on the beat I guess. Mods, shut 'er down.

Do you find it acceptable to get so drunk as to start fires, destroy property and attack people with beer bottles?

Please.

I've read through the whole thread and I'd like to point out something to you about your use of words.

Here for example, I have an issue with 'so drunk as to', 'start fires', 'destroy property' and 'attack people with beer bottles' so I'm only able to answer what is left which is 'do you find it acceptable to get drunk?'.

The answer is no, I don't. I've worked with alcool all my life, so that's my perspective.

With regards to the rest of your sentence, your choice of words clearly denotes not only bias (you have made no secret of the fact you are an apologist for the violent disrespect of individual rights) but also quite frankly a difficulty recognizing fact from propaganda. Such is the lot of the propagandist by the way, quite similarly to liars they gradually lose touch completely with reality.

'So drunk as to' unnecessarily connects the list of alleged misdeeds that follows, so as to create the impression they are due to alcool. This is false, in that alcool may have been an aggravating factor, but the link between the alleged misdeeds and the drinking is subject to debate. One need not be drunk to start a fire, destroy property or attack others. Phrased as you have managed to (probably keeping a straight face too), one imagines a group of louts and hooligans, drinking as much as they possibly can before going on a rampage, and torching, destroying and assaulting anything in sight. This is far from the case, and if that is what you see in all the videos, then you have indeed lost touch with reality.

You should realize that aside from another couple of apologists like yourself, none on this thread take that idea seriously, as it is unsupported by the facts and requires a quantum leap into a world where individuals sworn to uphold the constitution are brainwashed daily into believing anyone mentioning their rights is a homegrown terrorist.

Personally, I scorn such individuals. When they attach no value to their own words, ignoring their own solemn oaths, why and how do they expect others to listen to anything else they say?

I only noticed one fire, will you please show me the others that cause you to employ the plural, 'fires'? Will you also kindly show me any relevant legislation that forbids lighting a fire on private property?

As for destroying property, I cannot deny you are right, neither do I wish to. The videos clearly show the destruction of a road sign. In the absence of any other proven damage, maybe you would like to estimate the cost of said damage so the rest of us can keep some sane perspective?

reply to post by Xcathdra

Students held a block party

Not against the law. Party was held on private property.

Students at party were drunk

Not against the law on private property.

Some students had alcohol poisoning

Not evidenced by any hospital reports.

Or patient statements.

Some students started fires

Not against the law, unless a no-burn decree is in force by the Fire Marshall.

Some Students destroyed city property

Two students in a political statement in response to police brutality and aggression.

Some students attacked EMS with beer bottles

Not evidenced in the video, no official complaints were made by EMS, and no students were charged with assault on EMTS with beer bottles.

Some students attack Police with beer bottles.

Some students took defensive measures and carried out acts of protests against attacking police.

No such thing occured prior to the assault by police.

None of this is in dispute. The news articles and subsequent follow ups, in addition to media releases by the Police involved (several egencies) and the President of WIU all coroborate what occured.

Statements by the police involved says it all. Cops covering their butts with a complicit media, that you would like citizens to accept as the gospel written in stone. The party took place off of campus the President of WIU was not a party to the event or action. This constitutes third party hear say and innuendo and is not admissible in a court of law. Same holds true for the news paper, and it would be interesting to see if the police would be willing to perjure themselves under oath in a court to make the same statements they did to the press.

You have no independent objective eyewitness accounts to substantiate any of the above and the video evidence does not support the above statements by the police and their official account.

Please stick to the topic and take your anti government recruiting sovereign citizen BS elsewhere. It has nothing to do with the thread, and has nothing to do with student actions that forced the reponse and encounter with police. There was no group punishment, as the articles AND witness accounts state the bulk of the students left the area.

As stated before this is a misrepresentation on your part and continues to be so. The fact that you misquoted not just the law but misrepresented my understanding of the law led to your correction in that regard.

The video clearly shows group punishment being carried out, and your own efforts to describe a peaceful party as a riot underscore that a group punishment was being carried out.

Yes most people do flee in the face of violent armed henchmen of the state assaulting their persons.

This is an indication of prudence and self preservation not guilt.

The ones who refused to leave were the ones affected.

The video evidence does not support that and the order to disperse from private property was unlawful.

The Government is out of control, and stating such is not anti- anything by the way, it's an observation of fact.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You are making the assumption, wrongly, that he is able to distinguish between fact and media-sanitized fiction. He isn't, they don't teach such trivial notions in law enforcement anymore, they are too busy training for urban warfare.

reply to post by Xcathdra


You claim to be a cop, but have you ever provided ATS members with evidence that substantiates this claim?

Please post the link.

It is just you have already been caught out several times by members such a Proto, and I find it hard to believe you are a law enforcement officer, despite your constant support of them.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

You claim to be a cop, but have you ever provided ATS members with evidence that substantiates this claim?

Please post the link.

It is just you have already been caught out several times by members such a Proto, and I find it hard to believe you are a law enforcement officer, despite your constant support of them.

He is definitely law enforcement, likely of the homeland security type. Having read all of his posts I'd be hard-pressed to explain his ignorance any other way.

This is massive police abuse of power.

There must be evidence of a threat to the safety of the police officer, or others, or to prevent a crime, to justify taking action in making arrests. Clearly there was nothing going on at this street party to justify this gross abuse of power.

Unfortunately, the local authorities pretty much have complete say as to what will happen. It will be up to local judges, who have way too much power in this country, upon whom there are no checks and balances.

However, in the long run, these right wing abuses of power will backfire on them, as more and more people will stop supporting these local governments.

It is really about generational swing, and the hypocrisy of the boomer generation. They were party animals, but now as old folks, they want police tyranny to prevent young people from having fun.

Not only are the boomers leaving future generations massive amounts of debt, when they inherited the most robust economy in world history, they are also becoming increasingly bitter control freaks.

They can't even let college kids carry out a peaceful annual celebration without bringing out the riot police.

Good luck in old age, jerks.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

You'd make a lousy defense lawyer.

The students broke the law....case closed.

And I edit to say that your line of thinking is right up there with Al-Queda. Twisted logic and reason, makes for a twisted soul.

edit on 4-5-2011 by Freenrgy2 because: (no reason given)

I have never lost a case.

Further I did not cite Al-Queda in the examples I listed of other Law Enforcement Departments employing much different tactics than the ones employed here in this incident to a much better outcome.

The students did not break the law and indeed I have yet to see any criminal proceeding be brought against "students" individuals break the law not entire homogenous groups being stereo typed and labelled by the dishonest and disengenous that take into no account the actions of the individuals singularly that comprise the group.

Some would say your logic is typical of Nazi Germany Gestapo Agents, switch Jews for Students and you have the same precise type of thinking and argument.

I would say though you are employing no logic at all and are simply trying to cover for the fact that you just got schooled in law enforcement from someone who isn't even a member of it.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I have never lost a case.

So, you're a lawyer? If so, I'm a great guesser.

Further I did not cite Al-Queda in the examples I listed of other Law Enforcement Departments employing much different tactics than the ones employed here in this incident to a much better outcome.

You don't need to cite as your tone is very indicative of that line of thinking.

The students did not break the law and indeed I have yet to see any criminal proceeding be brought against "students" individuals break the law not entire homogenous groups being stereo typed and labelled by the dishonest and disengenous that take into no account the actions of the individuals singularly that comprise the group.

Unfortunately, your personal opinion does not trump facts. In order to take the position you and others have so vehemently espoused in this thread, you have to ignore all facts relevant to the case. You simply believe what you want to believe or you have somehow condensed your hatred of corporate America and law enforcement, in general, into this one situation as a de facto, one-size fits all mentality.

Some would say your logic is typical of Nazi Germany Gestapo Agents, switch Jews for Students and you have the same precise type of thinking and argument.

Now, how in the world did I know you would reply with some Nazi reference? When in doubt, bring in the Nazi's, right? That will shut me up. Unfortunately, if you can't tell the difference between this situation and Gestapo agents, then that's pretty sad indeed.

I would say though you are employing no logic at all and are simply trying to cover for the fact that you just got schooled in law enforcement from someone who isn't even a member of it.

Cover? Schooled? You know life has a funny way of teaching us the lessons we need to learn. I'd be careful if I were you.

reply to post by Freenrgy2

You know life has a funny way of teaching us the lessons we need to learn. I'd be careful if I were you.

So would I, if I were you.

reply to post by Freenrgy2

So, you're a lawyer? If so, I'm a great guesser.

I would say your ability to guess is on par with that of your ability to tactically assess a situation.

Neither beign prarticuarly impressive or accurate.

You don't need to cite as your tone is very indicative of that line of thinking.

Really you imagine a athiest hedonist living on Miami Beach thinks simiarly to Islamic Fundamentalists?

I am guessing you slept with someone to get on the force?

Unfortunately, your personal opinion does not trump facts. In order to take the position you and others have so vehemently espoused in this thread, you have to ignore all facts relevant to the case. You simply believe what you want to believe or you have somehow condensed your hatred of corporate America and law enforcement, in general, into this one situation as a de facto, one-size fits all mentality.

Complete balderdash and deflection, and is simply a indication of the weakness of your argument that the facts you claim to have established are not described but put forth in non-descript generic terms.

This is simply a ploy to hope others not following along will imagine you have established something you haven't.

Fact: The Students were peacefully assembled on Private Proptery
Fact: They were not harming, harassing or intimidating anyone through direct action
Fact: They remained peaceful and non-violent until an unlawful assault on private property by Riot Police.

Evidence: The Video Account

Now, how in the world did I know you would reply with some Nazi reference? When in doubt, bring in the Nazi's, right? That will shut me up. Unfortunately, if you can't tell the difference between this situation and Gestapo agents, then that's pretty sad indeed.

That you can't tell that there is no difference is pretty sad indeed.

Armed jackbooted thugs, stereo typing a lawfully assembled group, through slander, in order to justify it's persecution by violent force and defaming words.

That's Nazism at it's finest my friend.

Cover? Schooled? You know life has a funny way of teaching us the lessons we need to learn. I'd be careful if I were you.

Yes you totally ignored well documented examples of much better riot prevention and crowd control techniques employed in situations where the crowd had a much greater potential for destruction and violence.

The fact that you were unable to acknowledge their success suggests your embarassment in being schooled.

I am always careful, I look both ways before crossing the street, make sure to eat only organic food, don't go out in the rain, and never swim within an hour of eating.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

Now, how in the world did I know you would reply with some Nazi reference? When in doubt, bring in the Nazi's, right? That will shut me up. Unfortunately, if you can't tell the difference between this situation and Gestapo agents, then that's pretty sad indeed.

At least the Germans had the decency to bring people to a private place before they tortured them.

In USA, security forces just start the electrotorture right out in public.

They aren't scared about being charged for crimes against humanity and they document their crimes, not hide them. They carry torture implements on their belts.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You are too much Proto. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Stay thirsty my friend and don't let the jackboots get ya.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Calling Nazi's decent is a sad testament to your line of thinking.

Best of luck to you bringing down the man.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

You are too much Proto. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Stay thirsty my friend and don't let the jackboots get ya.

Is that your response when facts get in the way of your fiction??

I have a differing opinion of who are the "brick walls" in this thread..

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

You are too much Proto. It's like talking to a brick wall.

Stay thirsty my friend and don't let the jackboots get ya.

Studies by the US Department of Defense conclude that 72% of the US Population is in a constant state of dehydration and does not consume enough liquids on a daily basis.

Proto on the other hand stays well hydrated from ATS shills spitting out ludicrous dogmas and other forms of flatulence that make me one of the best hydrated and indeed coolest people on the net!

Thanks for your concern.

The video evidence speaks for itself.

The use of Sound Weapons on citizens is unacceptable.

I denounce these actions and for good and valid reason.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

Calling Nazi's decent is a sad testament to your line of thinking.

Best of luck to you bringing down the man.

He in fact did no such thing, and it's these kind of pathetic misrepresentations of your opponents arguments that deny you and your own any credibility at all what so ever.

When you claim to represent the man, and this is how you choose to do so, it is you in fact who are bringing down the 'man'.

The contrived dishonesty and misrepresentation becomes indicative of a rot and moral decay and a lack of virtue that suggests that the system is corrupt beyond redemption by the thinking and actions of those who serve it.

Those who wish for respect, who do not respect themselves enough to speak honestly and truly, deserve not the respect of others, and should not be surprised when it is denied them.

This incident is a very clear sign that police tactics in the U.S. are starting to get way out of hand.

More and more people are calling for more court authority, more jails, and more police, and less and less acceptance of the first amendment right to assembly.

But the same people don't want to pay taxes to support the cost of these law enforcement regimes, and the states are going bankrupt. They want to cut school funding, but that is only going to make matters worse.

What you are going to see is a whole lot of young people with nothing, and therefore nothing to lose, with a whole lot of resentment against the old people who created this mess they are passing on to the next generation.

What can you expect from people who supported the likes of Bush, when the Bush family helped to bankroll Hitler and the Nazis.

In the sixties they defeated the youth movement by using the secret service to pass out copious quantities of drugs, and creating celebrities to promote drug usage, but this generation has been raised far better.

Any of you ever see this link?

www.sott.net...

One of the earliest on the Laurel Canyon/Sunset Strip scene is Jim Morrison, the enigmatic lead singer of The Doors. Jim will quickly become one of the most iconic, controversial, critically acclaimed, and influential figures to take up residence in Laurel Canyon. Curiously enough though, the self-proclaimed "Lizard King" has another claim to fame as well, albeit one that none of his numerous chroniclers will feel is of much relevance to his career and possible untimely death: he is the son, as it turns out, of the aforementioned Admiral George Stephen Morrison.

Given that Zappa was, by numerous accounts, a pro-war, rigidly authoritarian control-freak, it is perhaps not surprising that he would not feel a kinship with the youth movement that he helped nurture. And it is probably safe to say that Frank's dad also had little regard for the youth culture of the 1960s, given that Francis Zappa was, in case you were wondering, a chemical warfare specialist assigned to - where else? - the Edgewood Arsenal. Edgewood is, of course, the longtime home of America's chemical warfare program, as well as a facility frequently cited as being deeply enmeshed in MK-ULTRA operations. Curiously enough, Frank Zappa literally grew up at the Edgewood Arsenal, having lived the first seven years of his life in military housing on the grounds of the facility. The family later moved to Lancaster, California, near Edwards Air Force Base, where Francis Zappa continued to busy himself with doing classified work for the military/intelligence complex. His son, meanwhile, prepped himself to become an icon of the peace & love crowd. Again, nothing unusual about that, I suppose.

Zappa's manager, by the way, is a shadowy character by the name of Herb Cohen, who had come out to L.A. from the Bronx with his brother Mutt just before the music and club scene began heating up. Cohen, a former U.S. Marine, had spent a few years traveling the world before his arrival on the Laurel Canyon scene. Those travels, curiously, had taken him to the Congo in 1961, at the very time that leftist Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba was being tortured and killed by our very own CIA. Not to worry though; according to one of Zappa's biographers, Cohen wasn't in the Congo on some kind of nefarious intelligence mission. No, he was there, believe it or not, to supply arms to Lumumba "in defiance of the CIA." Because, you know, that is the kind of thing that globetrotting ex-Marines did in those days (as we'll see soon enough when we take a look at another Laurel Canyon luminary).

Making up the other half of Laurel Canyon's First Family is Frank's wife, Gail Zappa, known formerly as Adelaide Sloatman. Gail hails from a long line of career Naval officers, including her father, who spent his life working on classified nuclear weapons research for the U.S. Navy. Gail herself had once worked as a secretary for the Office of Naval Research and Development (she also once told an interviewer that she had "heard voices all [her] life"). Many years before their nearly simultaneous arrival in Laurel Canyon, Gail had attended a Naval kindergarten with "Mr. Mojo Risin'" himself, Jim Morrison (it is claimed that, as children, Gail once hit Jim over the head with a hammer). The very same Jim Morrison had later attended the same Alexandria, Virginia high school as two other future Laurel Canyon luminaries - John Phillips and Cass Elliott.


"Papa" John Phillips, more so than probably any of the other illustrious residents of Laurel Canyon, will play a major role in spreading the emerging youth 'counterculture' across America. His contribution will be twofold: first, he will co-organize (along with Manson associate Terry Melcher) the famed Monterrey Pop Festival, which, through unprecedented media exposure, will give mainstream America its first real look at the music and fashions of the nascent 'hippie' movement. Second, Phillips will pen an insipid song known as "San Francisco (Be Sure to Wear Flowers in Your Hair)," which will quickly rise to the top of the charts. Along with the Monterrey Pop Festival, the song will be instrumental in luring the disenfranchised (a preponderance of whom are underage runaways) to San Francisco to create the Haight-Asbury phenomenon and the famed 1967 "Summer of Love."

Before arriving in Laurel Canyon and opening the doors of his home to the soon-to-be famous, the already famous, and the infamous (such as the aforementioned Charlie Manson, whose 'Family' also spent time at the Log Cabin and at the Laurel Canyon home of "Mama" Cass Elliot, which, in case you didn't know, sat right across the street from the Laurel Canyon home of Abigail Folger and Voytek Frykowski, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here), John Edmund Andrew Phillips was, shockingly enough, yet another child of the military/intelligence complex. The son of U.S. Marine Corp Captain Claude Andrew Phillips and a mother who claimed to have psychic and telekinetic powers, John attended a series of elite military prep schools in the Washington, D.C. area, culminating in an appointment to the prestigious U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis

A must read for anyone who wants to know what is going on.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
He in fact did no such thing, and it's these kind of pathetic misrepresentations of your opponents arguments that deny you and your own any credibility at all what so ever.

Do you really want to take that position? I think you need to re-read my friend.

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

Now, how in the world did I know you would reply with some Nazi reference? When in doubt, bring in the Nazi's, right? That will shut me up. Unfortunately, if you can't tell the difference between this situation and Gestapo agents, then that's pretty sad indeed.

At least the Germans had the decency to bring people to a private place before they tortured them.

This was in reference to Nazi's. So, were the Nazi's mainly Italian...no, Spanish.....no, Russian.....no, how 'bout German.....ding ding, we have a winner!

So my comment was completely logical. Nazi's = Germans.

I think that's your real problem here. You have a post which clearly denotes a fact and you clearly choose to ignore such fact. If anything, I just made my case against your page after page of vitriol from one simple post.

reply to post by poet1b


And on that note, may I suggest a little musical intermission...Oh yes this is very pertinent and I cannot wait for everyone to enjoy.

Edit to add that the last link cut off at the end, so I put a new link to the same song. The lyrics are not displayed but I can do that with external quote tags if need be.

The Doors - Peace Frog (Lyrics)