Modern day spiritual Masters do exists....

reply to post by dominicus

You can be in tune with yourself all you want, but I'd rather speak with and learn from those who have Mastered the realms of consciousness and the Paths to permanent Union with God ....where there is no you.

My friend, this is where we depart. To me this hope shows you lack self confidence and that's all that can be deduced.
I can show you numerous Buddhist scripture (and no doubt your 'teachers' have the exact same writing in their literature) which states clearly that you don't move forward, you just exist, that you can't contrive a path to god as the contrivance is against the ideal.

Try this guy UG Krisnamurti. I've linked a page with some fantastic quotes.

My interest is to point out to you that you can walk, and please throw away all those crutches. If you are really handicapped, I wouldn’t advise you to do any such thing. But you are made to feel by other people that you are handicapped so that they could sell you those crutches. Throw them away and you can walk. That’s all that I can say. ‘If I fall....’ - that is your fear. Put the crutches away, and you are not going to fall.

I don't think you would have any joy if you had tried your logic on him.

reply to post by squandered

Yes that's exactly the point.

Is the "spiritual master" trying to collect "followers" or are they out there busy trying to help people learn how to have those kind of powers themselves?

Some of these guys are just trying to suck us into yet another control game.

How about using all that "power" to help others learn how to use their own power so that even more are helped? That approach would give us a real alternative. I don't need to follow another "savior" to the next mass suicide!

I cannot see... what I am not

In other words nothing exists outside of myself that is not me ..

the shiny heart ...the beautiful master is my own reflection

I am all the love that I see outside of myself ...and all that is needed to be done in order to see this divine beauty

is to simply be that ....

to be all the love ...that... I am


(you that is reading this post right now ..."you" are all the love that "you" see in this world )

what every you focus upon ....you make real ( this is the key )

"be that which you wish to see "

and when the pupil is ready the master appears.


when making a documentary you cannot show this beautiful "reflection" emanating from a spiritual teacher
unless it has been experienced within the person who is looking.

some people will see and others will see nothing at all ...

remember some of our greatest artists have been trying to capture this divine beauty for ever and a day

it is all in the twinkling of the eye ...

wishing you all the success with your documentary ..

reply to post by squandered

To me this hope shows you lack self confidence and that's all that can be deduced.

you are of course assuming this correct? A statement based on subjective deduction can only be an assumption. Unless you know me and my inner depths, it would be completely pointless to make such a deduction about anyone for that matter.....

I don't think you would have any joy if you had tried your logic on him.

As to your Krishnamurti quote .......and the above statement... I wouldn't need to try any logic on him. He is one of the Giants of Nonduality. He personally discovered permanently that the individual is an illusion, which goes hand in hand with your deduction of my supposed lacking self confidence..........

Who is it that lacks confidence if there is no one here? I .....has been seen as an illusion, just a thought.

Yet at the same time, Krishnamurti was a Master of no I....... A true paradox indeed.

Those who wanted to know the depths of the Absolute Truth where there is no I ....went to Krishnamurti. Just like a sick man goes do a doctor, or a man with a broken car goes to a mechanic.....

All tied togther quite nicely. Thank you again for allowing me to prove the point even with Nonduality

It's important to me to keep things perspective. After all, we still live in the same reality and must all follow the same ordinary rules.
.
One persons spiritual master today is another persons spiritual slave tomorrow and vice versa. Also what one person may view as spiritual enlightenment today they may also consider an unenlightened view tomorrow.
.
The laws of karma are very clear in these matters and pretty much say that no one can experience anything they do not deserve to experience. Another way of saying this is that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
.
The universe has a principal of "no loss, no gain." Nothing is ever gained and nothing is ever lost. Another way of saying this is energy is never created or destroyed.
.

"Spiritual masters" appear to be someone who can manipulate others into believing that they are magical in some way. Others call these people "con artists".

A spiritual Master is someone who is self-realized. He experiences the I AM within and has complete control over his thought and emotional processes.

There are many of these people in India. Check out Sadhguru on YouTube to witness what clarity of mind, body and spirit can do for one's life.

Super thread.
I completely understand what you are saying, in fact i was anticipating your next words when i was reading through the post.

Yes, spiritual masters do exist. this does not mean they are THE masters or that they have understood everything there is to know about spirituality or non duality.
They understand it more than the common you and me. They stand to gain nothing but to spread the message.
That you the one, you are god, you are universe, you are everything that everything is made of.

Of course, there have been more 'con artists' trying to make a quick buck and this has tarnished the image of the masters and their teachings, but is that not the case with everything?
Take politics for example. Or our education system as well. Anywhere there is an opportunity to make money, there is more than one person ready to knock on that door.

i am sure anyone seeking the truth will be able to sift through the weed to find goodness & you will know when you do.

At the end of it all, it all lies in your mind.
you have the power to understand and see the truth.
Take a dip, you will be free forever!

hope that helps dominicus, the best i could do to add a few words to an amazing and heart felt write up

reply to post by dominicus


Seems like Anna's bliss to me. You been watching too much V?

Originally posted by dominicus
I was literally floored at the possibility that there really is no I ....it was wonder, it was awe, it was home, it was exactly what I had been looking for in the past decade of my life. This was entirely beyond anything explainable.

I wouldn't have expected you to say that since the first half of your OP has every single paragraph starting with the word "I" up to and including the paragraph you introduce the "no I" concept

In any case, surely it would be of incredible interest to me and I'd love it if you recorded a number of lengthy conversations with all of these interesting people you find!

I really hope you're genuine, it's been rather frustrating lately decipher truth from fiction on societal and spiritual manners. Everything keeps getting more and more confusing in this world and the confusion is becoming endless, luckily I have a foundational belief to stand on regarding "The Law of One." Which has helped me a lot.

If you're making things up about these masters then you're only dentrimenting the people around you that wish truth and enlightenment. You're also contributing to why the planet is in such a chaotic state.

The term master refers to someone who has taken on pupils. In trade vocations it's the same. A master plumber has successfully taught apprentices.

I don't see how you can have a spiritual master as the first lesson really must be that each person is on his own path. Like I said, we are all equally capable of love. That's the foundation.

To have a master in the sense given here, he / she MUST be a teacher of something. Lets say Buddhism for example - a form of Buddhism and from a particular school or tradition. This is what the master can claim. No 'master' can claim to be a spiritual master.

the teachings may be on a parallel path, but are still worlds apart.

UG Krishnamurti is definitely not a master. You may revere what he is trying to say in your own way but you miss the point completely if you think he's a master. Every quote you can find makes it very clear that he is not a teacher at all. This man is the quintessential master of nothing. If anything he is the master of his own self and nothing else. Others may want to learn from him, but the story is always the same. Stop trying.

I couldn't find the quote where he made it very clear that he didn't want people to speak of him as any kind of master after his death; stating that he spends his time stopping people from doing that and after his death he will have no control over such people, imparting their tangent on his lack of a tangent... as it were.

Does this sound like a master... really?

I have no teaching. There is nothing to preserve. Teaching implies something that can be used to bring about change. Sorry, there is no teaching here, just disjointed, disconnected sentences. What is there is only your interpretation, nothing else. For this reason there is not now nor will there ever be any kind of copyright for whatever I am saying. I have no claims.

reply to post by dominicus

Those who wanted to know the depths of the Absolute Truth where there is no I ....went to Krishnamurti. Just like a sick man goes do a doctor, or a man with a broken car goes to a mechanic..... All tied togther quite nicely. Thank you again for allowing me to prove the point even with Nonduality

This is a very poor link when you use the proper context. You are playing on semantics so you can claim victory at all costs but the premise is that spiritual masters exist and you claim victory without properly examining the facts. Your champion U.G. completely disagrees with you too. See below.

People call me an ‘enlightened man’ -- I detest that term -- they can’t find any other word to describe the way I am functioning. At the same time, I point out that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all. I say that because all my life I’ve searched and wanted to be an enlightened man, and I discovered that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all, and so the question whether a particular person is enlightened or not doesn’t arise. I don’t give a hoot for a sixth-century-BC Buddha, let alone all the other claimants we have in our midst. They are a bunch of exploiters, thriving on the gullibility of the people. There is no power outside of man. Man has created God out of fear. So the problem is fear and not God.

I defer to my comment about your self confidence. You made a long winded retraction which hints that I'm right, but I don't go about rubbing people up the wrong way. It's just that the notion of spiritual mastery involves actually having a mastery of spirituality and you use sources which go against your standpoint, yet you make the mistakes they decry when you enlist other humans as a spiritual crutch.

reply to post by squandered

This is a very poor link when you use the proper context. You are playing on semantics so you can claim victory at all costs but the premise is that spiritual masters exist and you claim victory without properly examining the facts. Your champion U.G. completely disagrees with you too. See below

The very fact that someone like him says he's not a master and that he's nothing, is the very epitome of selflessness and of a Master. Its the people who see the "Mastery" aspect of an individual, and not the individual himself .....which is completely annihilated in the Infinite Beingness. A Spiritual Master would never claim to be a Master.... its an inherent trait....

in reply to UG's quote:

People call me an ‘enlightened man’ -- I detest that term -- they can’t find any other word to describe the way I am functioning

simple..... he found out that I is an illusion ...so who is there to be Enlightenend when the whole premise of an 'I' being 'enlightened' is false. You can see this in his videos where he's on the couch, sick, dying ...saying the body doesnt matter, that his body is not him, amongst many other examples

At the same time, I point out that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all. I say that because all my life I’ve searched and wanted to be an enlightened man, and I discovered that there is no such thing as enlightenment at all, and so the question whether a particular person is enlightened or not doesn’t arise.

Again, he found that I is an illusion ....fits perfect.

I don’t give a hoot for a sixth-century-BC Buddha, let alone all the other claimants we have in our midst. They are a bunch of exploiters, thriving on the gullibility of the people. There is no power outside of man. Man has created God out of fear. So the problem is fear and not God

There is only One substance, One being, Oneness ....and in that light then ...everything else is charades as far as his reference to Buddha. It was the things people ascribed to Buddha .....not what Buddha ascribed to himself.

It's just that the notion of spiritual mastery involves actually having a mastery of spirituality and you use sources which go against your standpoint, yet you make the mistakes they decry when you enlist other humans as a spiritual crutch

Yet we rely on establishing a base of language, knowledge, systems of logic/intellect, and intellect all built over time based on the works of others (books, school, peers, teachers) and also from direct experience.

It takes others to learn from. For example your premise that you don't need another human to Master Spirituality or an aspect there of, seems to be picked up from UG. So the paradox would be you had to learn this from another.

While I do agree you can perhaps master an aspect of Spirituality on your own, I would much rather go to an old Buddhist monk for tips, or a Xtian Mystic, etc etc ....for tips and short cuts, instead of relying enitirely on myself.

Self reliance has a side effect can lead you know where. I know TM meditators 50-60 years old meditating for the last 30 years that have gotten nowhere, and I know some younger kids in their late 20's who have already established the realization that there is No I and rest in the Infinite.

Ehhh ....it is what it is. Either way, with the Spiritual Mastery stuff. There's alot of paradox. However I could never agree not to relay on another human, even for Spirituality. I have experiences where another human who knew the way, showed it to me, and it was up to me to step through the door. Meaning its a marriage of reliance on others and self reliance.

I have experience this oneness also. I was praticiing Transcendental Meditation in a group meditation. After the group meditation, I was driving home and it just happened as I was driving. It only lasted a few seconds but it was very much a life changing event for me.

It is a sad thing reading threads on this subject on many web sites. Too many people look to other people to do their work for them. They always look for the easy way and not the right way. The really sad part about this is the way to experence this wonderful event is very easy to do. Just learn to meditate correctly and consistantly and it will happen. It can happen at anytime or place, but you must put in the effort to do this. All the so called spiritual masters on this planet cannot make you have this experence. You have to do this. I believe the OP was already to the point of having that experence when it happed to him, as well as his friend. How long you meditate to make it happen is not important. I was meditating for only 3 weeks. It will happen only when you are ready and it will more than likely happen when you least expect it.

Please put fourth the effort, it is well worth it. This is just my opinion.

reply to post by dominicus

While I do agree you can perhaps master an aspect of Spirituality on your own, I would much rather go to an old Buddhist monk for tips, or a Xtian Mystic, etc etc ....for tips and short cuts, instead of relying enitirely on myself.

People were able to reach enlightenment in a few days in ancient times. The explanation I was given is that times were more simple and we're too distracted now. I'm not sure that I buy that, but are you sure that your faith in other humans isn't adding a complication?

Look I found krishnamurti profound and I follow the trail of any teachings that resonate well with me, but I'm not looking to be taken somewhere. I just want to get back to where I started from. I great friend is considered an avatar to some people. He has amazing powers. If you want to spend your time on this plane being entertained by someone like that you certainly can. I get a lot from our friendship. The thing is that I know I can have all the powers possible if that's what I submit to. I don't think he is less flawed than me, sort of...

You most certainly can find the creator with honest, humble, intuition.

I do not believe the question is IF a spiritual Master exists,
It is always a matter of WHERE the spiritual Master exists.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by squandered

People were able to reach enlightenment in a few days in ancient times

This is contrary to the information I have gleaned on these matters. It actually took disciples far longer to reach any kind of "enlightment", having to put themselves through extremes of ascetic pratices and devoting their entire lives to nothing but meditation and inner reflection.

It does still require dedication and commitment to experience the inner spiritual dimensions at will, but these days one can lead a normal life while attending to the mystic practices. Spiritual realities have become far more accessible by the everyday man, so to speak.

reply to post by dominicus

Ehhh ....it is what it is. Either way, with the Spiritual Mastery stuff. There's alot of paradox. However I could never agree not to relay on another human, even for Spirituality. I have experiences where another human who knew the way, showed it to me, and it was up to me to step through the door. Meaning its a marriage of reliance on others and self reliance.

I'm probably not far off that position if I'm honest, but I dare say that having nobody enforce any position, paradigm, reality etc on you would be a better thing as far as you involving your spirit in this plane as a universal being.

reply to post by squandered

I'm probably not far off that position if I'm honest, but I dare say that having nobody enforce any position, paradigm, reality etc on you would be a better thing as far as you involving your spirit in this plane as a universal being

In my opinion, if anyone does any "enforcing", then they are not spiritual masters.

For me, a master is a spiritual guide who can answer any questions that may be raised on spiritual matters, and who can offer practical advice on any problems or challenges the disciple encounters on their inner journey. Depending on the highest goal of a master's teachings, a "true" master should be able to accompany a disciple's soul all the way to the goal, even if that is God. Not the physical body of the master, but the spirit of the master.

In the east there is a saying, when the disciple is ready, the master appears. When someone is ready for a particular spiritual path or journey, then they will automatically encounter the right master, the disciple will be drawn to them, they will hear his/her call. The disciple must come willingly and only after they have satisfied their intellect that this is the right path and master for them.

There are masters who do no permit anyone under the age of 25 to be initiated into the spiritual practice, partly because the mind is not yet mature enough to discern wisely, and partly because education and starting a family take up most of the attention.

Oh, and if any spiritual master charges money, run like hell...