What the Bible teaches about homosexuality.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
This statement and scripture cuts to the bone,

Luke 9:5 (Amplified Bible) 5 And wherever they do not receive and accept and welcome you, when you leave that town shake off [even] the dust from your feet, as a testimony against them.

Another sweet cherry, lets taste the whole tree...

1Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. 2And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. 3And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece. 4And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart. 5And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them. 6And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

So when you go into the world casting out demons, curing diseases, and preaching the Kingdom of God, and healing the sick, without taking ANYTHING for your journey, not staves (symbols of authority), nor scrip (scripture, speak from the heart), neither bread (depend on God to provide sustenance), nor money!, nor have two coats (because you gave one to the poor); then whatsoever house you enter, you abide (accept without judgement), thence depart, then and only then, whoever will not receive you under these conditions, then you shake the dust off of your feet as a testimony against them.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Tell you what, you believe whatever you want my friend i care not...

I will accept everyone regardless of their beliefs, but if you choose not to that is your "testement" not mine...

I do have a question for you though... What of the people on this planet that haven't heard of christ? And what about people who belief christ was a prophet but not a savior? Such as muslims?

Do you condem them as well?

Matthew 24:14 (Amplified Bible)
14 And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.

I get a kick how you people try to always turn it into accusing the Christian that speaks the truth. You do this to push your guilt away from yourselves by redirecting it to us. It's like the devil using scripture to try and tempt the elect.
For what it's worth and I know it's worthless to even try, but I will say it again, I am not your judge, the Word of the Lord judges you. But your too stubborn to listen, or to read it right, or to admit and say, oh yes I remember you saying that. No, you rather throw accusations at us, just like they did before they crucified Christ.

Christ told us and warned us, "you will be hated because of My Name" and we knew He was going to be right. It's a decrepit world we live in, and it's getting worse by the Hour.
Let the fool remain blind. It is their own folly.

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Tell you what, you believe whatever you want my friend i care not...

I will accept everyone regardless of their beliefs, but if you choose not to that is your "testement" not mine...

I do have a question for you though... What of the people on this planet that haven't heard of christ? And what about people who belief christ was a prophet but not a savior? Such as muslims?

Do you condem them as well?

Matthew 24:14 (Amplified Bible)
14 And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.

I get a kick how you people try to always turn it into accusing the Christian that speaks the truth. You do this to push your guilt away from yourselves by redirecting it to us. It's like the devil using scripture to try and tempt the elect.
For what it's worth and I know it's worthless to even try, but I will say it again, I am not your judge, the Word of the Lord judges you. But your too stubborn to listen, or to read it right, or to admit and say, oh yes I remember you saying that. No, you rather throw accusations at us, just like they did before they crucified Christ.

Christ told us and warned us, "you will be hated because of My Name" and we knew He was going to be right. It's a decrepit world we live in, and it's getting worse by the Hour.
Let the fool remain blind. It is their own folly.

You didn't answer my question first off....

Secondly read my response again....i have no guilt nor did i redirect it towards anyone i asked you a simple question. Amazingly enough you think im stubborn yet you dance around the question i asked trying to use your bible as some sort of proof against what i say.

Again i say...believe what you will, i care not. That will be your testement to the world... condem who you wish but by doing so you break your own laws.

So if you chose not to see, that is your issue not mine... Im not here to teach, only to inform.

Here is an interesting and enlightening article by: Walter Wink, is Professor of Biblical Interpretation at Auburn Theological Seminary in New York City. He has also taught at Union Theological Seminary and Hartford Seminary, and has been a visiting professor at Columbia and Drew universities. In 1989-1990 he was a Peace Fellow at the United States Institute of Peace in Washington, DC.

Homosexuality and the Bible
by The Rev. Dr. Walter Wink

Sexual issues are tearing our churches apart today as never before. The issue of homosexuality threatens to fracture whole denominations, as the issue of slavery did a hundred and fifty years ago. We naturally turn to the Bible for guidance, and find ourselves mired in interpretative quicksand. Is the Bible able to speak to our confusion on this issue?

The debate over homosexuality is a remarkable opportunity, because it raises in an especially acute way how we interpret the Bible, not in this case only, but in numerous others as well. The real issue here, then, is not simply homosexuality, but how Scripture informs our lives today.

www.soulforce.org...

I'm going to re-post a response I gave in a similar thread that's no longer active it seems. I've added in a few things here and there, so we can think of it as the nifty, shiny 2.0 version of the reply:

'I've never been able to wrap my head around how so many Christians can go around denouncing homosexuality like it's different from any other sin. We all sin, even those of you who sit mighty high on your pedestals and shake your fists -- feeling better about your own sins the more you put down gay people and homosexuality.

Yes, the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. But it also says that swearing is a sin. It says that even looking at another women with unjust thoughts in your head if you're married is a sin. Hey, isn't hating a sin as well? Why yes, yes it is!

The fact of the matter is, we all sin each and every day. Multiple times. Most of the time without even realizing it. We're just sinful beings, unfortunately. Indeed, it's why Jesus had to come and die on the cross for us in the first place.

Ultimately, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Per Matthew 12, verses 31-32:

“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.”

So there you have it.

Does this mean that everyone has to accept homosexuality as okay if they're inherently against it? No. I've always wondered if those people you see protesting with signs about how gay people are going straight to Hell are as passionately opposed to other sins as they are to homosexuality. Do they sit outside liquor stores with signs stating that all drunks will be damned to Hell? Or do they vehemently rebuke anyone who they hear use a curse word and inform them they will never know the Kingdom of God? I doubt it.

It's almost as if the people you see on the news violently protesting against gay people don't even bother to read their Bible's. Indeed, I'm certain this is mostly true for the vast majority of them. We're all Brothers and Sisters in Christ -- even those of us who are not saved. We all sin and none of us is better than any other.

God is most assuredly displeased with us when we exhibit hatred of any kind. Feelings and the outpouring of hatred against anything or anyone is most certainly not from Heaven and will definitely not lead you down any paths even closely resembling riotousness.

Again, let us quote a verse from the Book of Matthew, chapter 7, verse 3:

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

And we as Christians really wonder why we're despised so much when trying to spread the Word? Perhaps it's because we're coming off as blatant hypocrites, talking down to everyone who is not saved as if we're somehow better than them in every conceivable way. Here's a newsflash: we're not. And acting holier than thou all the time not only will stunt your spiritual growth in Christ but will probably assure you a vast reduction within your pool of close friends. I'm afraid to admit that all of this behavior disgusts and saddens me a great deal. There's no way anyone will be receptive of the Gospel when it's promoted to them in such a way.

The energy and "passion" used to put down and condemn gay's to Hell should instead be used to attempt to bring to their awareness the Truth of Jesus Christ our Lord. We should be witnesses for Christ, not self-proclaimed judges. You're not going to get any praise in Heaven for how many people you screamed at with a red face that they were going to Hell, that's for sure. And that's not the actions of someone being guided by the Holy Spirit either, I'm sorry to say.'

reply to post by Akragon

Matthew 24:14 (Amplified Bible) 14 And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.

I see you didn't understand this verse. And also this one.

Luke 9:5 (Amplified Bible) 5 And wherever they do not receive and accept and welcome you, when you leave that town shake off [even] the dust from your feet, as a testimony against them.

In the first quoted verse in Matthew 24:14 it say in plain language, the gospel will be preached throughout the whole world so that all may be made known of the Savior, and for those that receive it they will be fine and for those that reject it, God will deal with them according to His judgment.

And in Luke 9:5 whenever the gospel is rejected, those that are sharing the good news and are rejected, are to walk away and clean the dust off their feet. What that means is, you reject the Word of the Lord than your choice is of the world, and again God will deal with those according to His judgment.

We as Christians again, I tell you this, we don't judge you, the Word is what judges you. You insist to turn it towards us, and all that is, is an excuse, an excuse to not believe in Christianity, to believe what Christ taught.
You ask for proof, it is the same now as it was in the days that Christ walked the earth and before that, they the unbelievers wanted proof. Christ gave examples of those that saw with their own eyes and still did not believe.
Where's the proof you ask, when really it's not proof that you want, it's just an excuse to reject God, so that you can continue to live in the world, in worldly ways of lust and greed. You don't want to hear the truth the same way an alcoholic doesn't want to be told or to admit that he's an alcoholic (hope you don't mind me borrowing your analogy NOTurTypical).
You wanted an answer, Akragon, there's your answer, and if it's not good enough for you, then that's the way it's got to be.

To, JDWriter
Sin is Sin no matter if it's murder, stealing, jealousy, greed, lust, vanity, etcAnd it's not about hatred, it's about Sin, Lust, when will you people get off your high horse and stop making excuses to put Christians down, when will you yourselves own up. You know what never, because your pride is too great to admit that yes maybe it does make sense. Your choice is to live in the world not live of God, oh but some of you claim you are, but only want to take what you want and leave the rest, well it don't work that way, you either accept all of it or nothing.

Acts 13:38-41 (Amplified Bible) 38 So let it be clearly known and understood by you, brethren, that through this Man forgiveness and removal of sins is now proclaimed to you; 39 And that through Him everyone who believes [who acknowledges Jesus as his Savior and devotes himself to Him] is absolved (cleared and freed) from every charge from which he could not be justified and freed by the Law of Moses and given right standing with God. 40 Take care, therefore, lest there come upon you what is spoken in the prophets: 41 Look, you scoffers and scorners, and marvel and perish and vanish away; for I am doing a deed in your days, a deed which you will never have confidence in or believe, [even] if someone [clearly describing it in detail] declares it to you.

.

If - Walter Wink, Professor of Biblical Interpretation at Auburn Theological Seminary - - - can understand how passages in the bible referred to social issues of the time - - - then any person calling themselves a Christian can also understand and accept this interpretation.

"Certainly heterosexual marriage is normal, else the race would die out. But it is not normative. God can bless the world through people who are married and through people who are single, and it is false to generalize from the marriage of most people to the marriage of everyone. In 1 Cor. 7:7 Paul goes so far as to call marriage a "charisma," or divine gift, to which not everyone is called. He preferred that people remain as he was--unmarried. In an age of overpopulation, perhaps a gay orientation is especially sound ecologically!"

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But - again - - it is not the religion - - but the individual who is Choosing to focus on certain passages - - applying them to modern times in a negative way.

It is a personal hate.

reply to post by Annee


Talk about a play on words, a name as Wink? Ha!
Even the Pharisees and Sadducees didn't believe Jesus, so what makes this guy Wink any different, why just because he carries a PhD, big deal. He's nothing more that another talking white washer of the truth.
God's Word never changes especially for the times. This is so ridicules it's not even funny.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
reply to post by Annee

 

Talk about a play on words, a name as Wink? Ha!
Even the Pharisees and Sadducees didn't believe Jesus, so what makes this guy Wink any different, why just because he carries a PhD, big deal. He's nothing more that another talking white washer of the truth.
God's Word never changes especially for the times. This is so ridicules it's not even funny.

So you resort to making fun of his name? A Professor of Biblical Interpretation

A PhD - - is a talking white washer - - - because he doesn't agree with you.

Yes! You are ridiculous.

Professor Walter Wink's - - - article is an amazing - insightful - intelligent article.

I recommend everyone read it. Except the "know-it-alls".


www.soulforce.org...

Originally posted by Annee
Professor Walter Wink's - - - article is an amazing - insightful - intelligent article.

I recommend everyone read it. Except the "know-it-alls".


www.soulforce.org...

Your claiming to be a know it all, by presenting something as because satisfies your pleasure and not your soul.

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by Annee
Professor Walter Wink's - - - article is an amazing - insightful - intelligent article.

I recommend everyone read it. Except the "know-it-alls".


www.soulforce.org...

Your claiming to be a know it all, by presenting something as because satisfies your pleasure and not your soul.

Uh huh. Your interpretations of my posts and meanings. Always "interesting".

As said - I was raised Christian - - pretty much believed it for at least 40 years.

I'm well aware of those like you who - - who use "the word of God" (in print) - - unless it doesn't suit them.

In my 64 years - - I've met 3 - maybe 4 - Christians - - I'd say "truly walk in His footsteps". They are very rare.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by Annee
Professor Walter Wink's - - - article is an amazing - insightful - intelligent article.

I recommend everyone read it. Except the "know-it-alls".


www.soulforce.org...

Your claiming to be a know it all, by presenting something as because satisfies your pleasure and not your soul.

Uh huh. Your interpretations of my posts and meanings. Always "interesting".

As said - I was raised Christian - - pretty much believed it for at least 40 years.

I'm well aware of those like you who - - who use "the word of God" (in print) - - unless it doesn't suit them.

In my 64 years - - I've met 3 - maybe 4 - Christians - - I'd say "truly walk in His footsteps". They are very rare.

edit on 1-4-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)

As a person, I am not perfect, but I know the Word good enough to know when someone waters it down by making claims that the bible is not truth. If the bible is not truth, we wouldn't have anything to guide us. Jesus said all scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit and is given to us for teaching and instruction. He also said everyone falls short in sin. He said no one goes to the Father except through Him, He died for everyone, we are saved through Him if we accept Him as Lord and Savior. To deny that would be to call God a liar. Everyone wants to defend homosexuals in a way that says God excepts them. He does except them, but not the act. Why would He tell the prostitute to go and sin no more. He would never tell someone that has no sin to go and sin no more if they didn't have any sin. He told her that so she would not go back to her old ways which were to be a prostitute. Sex out of marriage between a man and a woman is lust plain and simple. Sex in any other form other than that is unnatural. He even speaks of that there is no denying it. The truth is just being distorted.
God loves everyone and gives everyone the chance of salvation, no matter who you are. Once we receive Christ we are to sin no more. It doesn't mean we become perfect it means we no the difference between right and wrong, and we will still fall but strive to do better. And the ways we fall will not be in ways that are so detrimental to our salvation as to mock God to the point that we threaten our own salvation by it.
Jesus warned of these days where the world will be against those that hold on to the true gospel. We are in those days more than we have ever been. The earth has become a very small place, as we all know technology has made it that way. Everyone keeps saying , we've been hearing that the end is going to happen over and over, and nothing ever came of it. What they don't realize is that their generalizing God to their understanding. God doesn't operate that way, not in pea brain human ways. God is creator of everything in the heavens up above and everything on and in the earth below. To compare God to mans way of thinking is ludicrous, man and his small mind compared to the Creator is so foolish, and arrogant. We have no real clue when it comes down to it what God is capable of really. Our imagination is too limited to know.

So you say you were raised a Christian, I wonder what happened to you along the way that messed it up. For one if your always looking for the perfect Christian you'll never find him or her, and if you claim that you knew 2 or 3 than I say to you, did you live with them 24 7? Also, if your always looking for the perfect Christian, than your guilty of passing judgment.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
To, JDWriter
Sin is Sin no matter if it's murder, stealing, jealousy, greed, lust, vanity, etc. And it's not about hatred, it's about Sin, Lust, when will you people get off your high horse and stop making excuses to put Christians down, when will you yourselves own up. You know what never, because your pride is too great to admit that yes maybe it does make sense. Your choice is to live in the world not live of God, oh but some of you claim you are, but only want to take what you want and leave the rest, well it don't work that way, you either accept all of it or nothing.

Acts 13:38-41 (Amplified Bible) 38 So let it be clearly known and understood by you, brethren, that through this Man forgiveness and removal of sins is now proclaimed to you; 39 And that through Him everyone who believes [who acknowledges Jesus as his Savior and devotes himself to Him] is absolved (cleared and freed) from every charge from which he could not be justified and freed by the Law of Moses and given right standing with God. 40 Take care, therefore, lest there come upon you what is spoken in the prophets: 41 Look, you scoffers and scorners, and marvel and perish and vanish away; for I am doing a deed in your days, a deed which you will never have confidence in or believe, [even] if someone [clearly describing it in detail] declares it to you.

I must say, that was kind of confusing. For one, I'm as straight-as-an arrow and a fiercely passionate Christian to boot. Not every person whose against you in this debate is gay. I thought this would be immediately evident/apparent/common sense, but alas...

Secondly... you're aware that you essentially just quoted Scripture that helped illustrate my original post, right? My pride is too great to refuse acknowledging that homosexuals either cannot be saved or should be treated/witnessed to just like everyone else?

You either didn't read my entire post or you're for some reason being hostile to someone who, essentially -- at the very basic core of beliefs, at least -- is on the same side of the fence, the same team as you. So ease up. Relax. We're all Brothers and Sisters in Christ here, it just takes some people longer to accept the Truth than others.

Forgiveness, my friend. It's a must. Per Mark 11:25:

"And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

You cannot be a very effective witness if you let others sins cloud your opinion of them. Let's not be hypocrites here.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
As a person, I am not perfect, but I know the Word good enough to know when someone waters it down by making claims that the bible is not truth.

NO - you don't.

You are choosing your interpretation - - and choosing what to believe.

Originally posted by JDWriter
Not every person whose against you in this debate is gay. I thought this would be immediately evident/apparent/common sense, but alas...

That's affirmative.

I am definitely Not gay. I am married to a man 21 years younger then me. He is a "solid on the ground" Red Haired Swede - - with beard. I am in no way attracted to feminine men - - - even straight metro-sexual men. I am attracted to rugged mountain men types.

I just don't know why homosexuality gets singled out from the much broader sin category, like some others have posted.
If I condemn somebody for being an adulterer, I am not prejudice or a bigot, maybe branded as old fashioned.
Same if I condemn a drunkard, then maybe I get called self-righteous
BUT if I condemn a homosexual activity, NOT the person then I am a bigot and prejudice.
The standards non-Christian's and liberal Christians attack those that are holding fast to the bible's teachings are a double one, the don't say much about all those other sins. And the same goes to the very radical Christians that are ONLY attacking homosexuals and ignoring all the other major sins listed out.

People need to understand the bible, it doesn't say with asterisk note beside the word homosexuality "this sin is worse than the others", no they are grouped together as being equal in God's eyes. The punishment is the same for all of them. Although from our human perspective it certainly seems that murder is worse than drunkenness, yet to God both can lead no life in his Kingdom.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 is very clear.

9Do you not know that the unrighteous and the wrongdoers will not inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived (misled): neither the impure and immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who participate in homosexuality,
10Nor cheats (swindlers and thieves), nor greedy graspers, nor drunkards, nor foulmouthed revilers and slanderers, nor extortioners and robbers will inherit or have any share in the kingdom of God.
11And such some of you were [once]. But you were washed clean (purified by a complete atonement for sin and made free from the guilt of sin), and you were consecrated (set apart, hallowed), and you were justified [pronounced righteous, by trusting] in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the [Holy] Spirit of our God.

So God expects us to change, a very immoral heterosexual man or woman that changes their ways, has a very hard time staying in a monogamous relationship. But they do it to please God. So the challenge is to a former homosexual as well. I am not saying it is easy. But the bible says what it says, and this is Gods perspective, he can forgive us, if we stop, otherwise the blessings of the Kingdom will not be there for us.

Live in a Book - - die in a Book.

It has nothing to do with God or Real Life.

Man wrote a book.

God is not in a book.

If you can't think for yourself - - - then what is the point of God giving you free will?

I have zero empathy for anyone who chooses Dogma over compassion and Equal Rights.

reply to post by IAMIAM

P.S. Do notice that he IS eating, drinking, and being merry with sinners...

Obviously, it says that in the text. But if you would have read my entire statement I said:

"Jesus didn't come to Earth to eat, drink, and be merry with sinners and condone their rebellion to God's laws."

Christ went to them, not for a party, but to call them to repent of their sins. Christ never condones sin, He pointed it out and commanded them to not sin anymore.