Yikes! The Uterus Police!

While the US does not necessarily have a standard for differentiating between miscarriages and still births, most states do use the federal guideline (it is not enforced and using the standard is voluntary) is that a fetal death after 20 wks is considered a still birth, instead of a miscarriage.

Still births occur in about 1% of total births (or 1 out of 150), so that would include, in most instances, a fetus from 20 wks until birth. Autopsy's are performed in many cases, and in most of those a cause of death can not be determined, which means that drugs, alcohol, tobacco, etc are not present in the baby's system. If they are present it is found, but it is not the majority.

Of the known causes the vast majority are medical reasons, blood pressure, bacterial diseases, chromosomal problems, birth defects (genetic).

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I say let put the Neanderthal out of his misery, but is like everything in life, people still vote for this piece of trash regardless.

Originally posted by Terrormaster
reply to post by SevenBeans

 

"MANY" -- You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means.

No one here is arguing that YES neglect and abuse CAN indeed cause miscarriages. The problem is you keep using the word MANY and that is not statistically accurate. You've even agreed on the well documented statistic that about 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. What you're missing is that an extremely small percentage of that 50% are caused by poor choices and neglect. MANY indicates a large number of that 50% and that is just not true.

No I think the problem is that you don't know what the word "many" means. Many does not = any defined percentage. "Many deer are shot by hunters" is a perfectly accurate statement that you would never question even though only a very small percentage of deer are killed by hunters.

In any case it's irrelevent, if you prefer to use the word "some" that's fine with me.

Originally posted by Terrormaster
While there have been studies done that document these abuses and neglect cause birth defects there are many other factors out of the mother's control that also cause birth defects.

Obviously, who said otherwise?

Originally posted by Terrormaster
Proving that the defect was indeed caused by those abuses will most likely be difficult. And the government has NO right to start such an investigation.

I guess I have to repeat myself AGAIN. I would punish the grossly negligent behavior itself (ie. smoking, getting drunk while pregnant etc. etc.)... no need to prove that anything caused anything.

It's a stupid idea which will just backfire like most other politically correct ideas do. Also, it really bothers me how they snuck this little tidbit in, acting like mandatory vaccination should be forced upon people during certain situations...

(yet he also proposed a bill last session that would forbid the CDC from requiring mandatory flu vaccinations in a pandemic; apparently preventing massive deaths from a pandemic don't come under the heading of protecting life)

No person should be forced to do anything they do not want to do, whether it's supposedly for their own good or not.

reply to post by SevenBeans


Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your question. In my case my pregnancy was never an unborn child...it was not anything which was why I miscarried. No ones business but mine.

Ok, I understand now. I guess if someone else caused it they could they could be held responsible because they harmed me as well...causing me to miscarry. I honestly do see your point somewhat but I don't believe the government should have the right to investigate all miscarriages....way too many of them (most I would guess) caused by nature and not abuse.

My outlook on this is different because of my experience and beliefs.I don't believe the soul enters upon conception. The pregnancy that I lost was never going to result in the birth of a human being. It was a blob of cells. Part of nature...the body knows best.

Again, should I have gotten a birth certificate for that blob of cells in order for a death certificate? No birth happened in my case.

Originally posted by ALOTOFBS
No person should be forced to do anything they do not want to do, whether it's supposedly for their own good or not.

Huh? You might want to read that again.

How do we still get these religious extremists into office like this? This is an extremely insensitive way to handle a delicate topic, no matter where you stand on the issue of abortion.

I'm against abortion for ethical, philosophical, and legal reasons... which are the very same reasons I am against this bill. He's gotta be a plant to sow the seeds of troll-dom.

Originally posted by PerpetualSeeker
Ok, I understand now. I guess if someone else caused it they could they could be held responsible because they harmed me as well...causing me to miscarry.

What if they caused your child to be born with brain damage? Should there be no legal consequence? If there should be than why should they be held to a higher standard than Mothers?

Originally posted by rogerstigers
Sadly, this is the dark side of Christianity that is often supressed or at least ignored. And while this is not a post attacking Christians for the sake of it, I would like to point out that I have seen this sort of bible beating misogynistic hogwash throughout my childhood here in Texas.

I'll bet this man is anti-muslim and supported sending troops to Afghanistan to "support women's rights".

He is a hypocrite. Unfortunately, the fact that he keeps getting elected means there are others in GA that agree with him.

I apologize on behalf of my gender.

The Bible is meant to be followed by choice. It is not meant to be legislated.

And if they are going to be idiot enough to legislate Bible guidelines, then maybe forgiveness should be the final clause in all of their bills. "If you do this, then this SHOULD happen to you. Remember that. But, we, the state of Georgia, will forgive you. However you cannot avoid the consequences of your actions. May your conscience burn until you realize what you've done. The consequences are worse than anything we could do to you."

But that is neither here nor there.

The guy is just pandering to Christians who don't have enough faith in God to realize that God will do what He will do when He does it.

Personal responsibility people. Don't vote for someone who will tell you what to do... vote for someone who will protect your potential to make mistakes and learn from those mistakes.

Ugh. This is so embarrassing.

When I first moved to GA I was sort of excited as I naively thought of ATL to be sort of a "Mecca", a exciting hub, a place that was supposed to be more progressive and modern than the rest of the South. Wrong. Hell, we can't even buy beer and wine on Sunday.

I can only hope that the younger generation of people will be more successful than us Gen Xers in dragging the South out of the archaic, misogynistic past.

Additionally, examples such as this should always serve to remind that, occasionally, the type of person who seeks to become an elected official doesn't necessarily want to uphold democratic ideals or serve constituents but instead is the type of person who seeks to control others, impose their will or view, dismantle certain aspects of government or create more tyrannical government rules and otherwise but the brakes on progress.

oops!

Yikes...it's going to take me a while to catch up on all these comments. Thank you all for participating,both pro and con. Somehow, after reading through some of the posts quickly, I sense that this may be yet another divisive issue forming in our society, and I don't mean the whole ongoing Roe v. Wade, pro-life/pro-choice debate, but maybe an escalating division between genders. Many signs are there if we take a hard look around. In this case it's only one "small" bill that one small man is trying to get passed in one state's legislature, but it is indicative of how some (who knows how many) in this country are thinking. And it may be indicative of the shape of things to come if some get their way. Don't be played..

reply to post by marg6043

He ran unopposed (as do many in our elections), but I'm sure people still voted for him. Only one choice? Check the box anyway. I have a very strong sense he will not run unopposed next time.

reply to post by kosmicjack


People in places of power should be forced into passing mental health test.

If we leave it to people like that we will be burning his mental type of heretics and witches at the stake here in Ga for the enjoyment of the righteous every Sunday after mandatory church attendance.

reply to post by SevenBeans

Well, I guess if that happened and one wanted to press charges. They would be harming the mother first which in turn causes harm to the unborn child. But that's when things should be investigated. Not after every miscarriage. Miscarriages are way too devastating to women in the first place but to then be placed under investigation which then may involve questioning family and friends is just horrifying.

But that was never my point in posting.

My point was about the death certificates. Again, in my case my pregnancy was never ever going to be a child no matter what I did. It was just a defect in the process and the process continued with the miscarriage.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Here in Ga we have many of this mental cases running all the time without opposition, why is this happening in Ga it beat me I guess nobody wants the job.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta

Originally posted by rogerstigers
Sadly, this is the dark side of Christianity that is often supressed or at least ignored. And while this is not a post attacking Christians for the sake of it, I would like to point out that I have seen this sort of bible beating misogynistic hogwash throughout my childhood here in Texas.

I'll bet this man is anti-muslim and supported sending troops to Afghanistan to "support women's rights".

He is a hypocrite. Unfortunately, the fact that he keeps getting elected means there are others in GA that agree with him.

I apologize on behalf of my gender.

The Bible is meant to be followed by choice. It is not meant to be legislated.

And if they are going to be idiot enough to legislate Bible guidelines, then maybe forgiveness should be the final clause in all of their bills. "If you do this, then this SHOULD happen to you. Remember that. But, we, the state of Georgia, will forgive you. However you cannot avoid the consequences of your actions. May your conscience burn until you realize what you've done. The consequences are worse than anything we could do to you."

But that is neither here nor there.

The guy is just pandering to Christians who don't have enough faith in God to realize that God will do what He will do when He does it.

Personal responsibility people. Don't vote for someone who will tell you what to do... vote for someone who will protect your potential to make mistakes and learn from those mistakes.

I challenge anybody to find a direct reference to abortion in the bible. I think the Christian/abortion connection is an intentional one meant to further polarize the public. If people with faith are charged with a greater respect for life, does the opposite hold true on pro-choice people?

That label (not respecting life) sounds bad to the pro-choice folks so instead the pro-life folks are simply accused of being unthinking zealots... and then people like this Bobby Franklin guy comes along and happily plays the role of the "self-righteous christian" everybody loves to hate.

Unless you are talking about a mandated respect for creation, Christianity has nothing to do with abortion issues. To make that connection is just begging for straw-man type arguments.

reply to post by marg6043

Until now This man is NOT running unopposed next time. Believe that. If we have to uncover and expose these nuts one at a time, that's what we'll do, you know? They pretty much expose themselves anyway, so half the work is done.

reply to post by SevenBeans


I was referring to the quote about mandatory vaccinations, it got snuck into the article. Second snippet in the OP. First sentence of the second paragraph, in parentheses.

Edit to add: I am only pointing out that the author believes mandatory vaccination is acceptable under pandemic situations. I do not.

reply to post by SevenBeans


[color=deepskyblue]
Do you enjoy being so impossible?

I am done discussing this with you since you are failing to realize the point that this proposal infringes on the rights of pregnant (or formerly pregnant as the case may be) that are not doing anything to cause a miscarriage based on the fact that only some women are willfully participating in undesirable behaviors that endanger their unborn children. These women are the exception, not the rule. Flip that around and maybe I could see how the legislation would be beneficial.

I still want to see a source for the "many negligent women" you are talking about. So, please locate one and post it.

Originally posted by Cuervo

I challenge anybody to find a direct reference to abortion in the bible. I think the Christian/abortion connection is an intentional one meant to further polarize the public. If people with faith are charged with a greater respect for life, does the opposite hold true on pro-choice people?

That label (not respecting life) sounds bad to the pro-choice folks so instead the pro-life folks are simply accused of being unthinking zealots... and then people like this Bobby Franklin guy comes along and happily plays the role of the "self-righteous christian" everybody loves to hate.

Unless you are talking about a mandated respect for creation, Christianity has nothing to do with abortion issues. To make that connection is just begging for straw-man type arguments.

The Bible does tell us that we should take personal responsibility and endure the consequences of our actions. That means that if we have sex and get pregnant, we follow suit. That is respect for life in itself.
I don't care about labels. Was I labeling?
"Unless..." That's the point. The Bible makes the point to take personal responsibility. Personal responsibility can be applied to all happenings in life, including the topic of abortion. So how can you claim Christianity has nothing to do with abortion issues then? Life is life. Life has to do with life.

I am not begging for ...any kind of logical argument. I made a statement. I said no thing either against or for any human being except to imply that the representative in question is manipulating for his personal gain.

And the only step to take to prevent this stuff from happening is for people to take personal responsibility by making better choices for themselves instead of relying on manipulators to earn a platform and then legislate your life.

Now that I have said what I already said... in a different way... am I okay now?