US Diplomat Guilty of Murder: Pakistan Police Report

US Diplomat Guilty of Murder: Pakistan Police Report

www.newser.com

The US Embassy official accused of killing two Pakistani men who allegedly tried to rob him is guilty of murder, according to a Pakistani police report. The report, obtained by the Washington Post, says that investigators found Raymond Davis shot each victim five times, including in their backs. But the report contradicts itself, at one point claiming each man was shot in the back twice, at another point claiming three times.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Story seems interesting. Something a lot of you ATSers will be interested in.

Don't really know what's going on over there but I'm sure Wikileaks knows.

All jokes aside what do you guys think?

(p.s - Sorry if this has been posted already. Apparently it happened yesterday and I don't see it in this forum.)

www.newser.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I believe this guy is accused of selling nuclear material to al queda or others in pakiland.
The true story will be a long tortured string of BS before we ever make any sense of it.
The US is blustering like crazy to get this guy back.
Threatening the paki govt with cutting aid.
I hope they publish the story in full, but i feel we will never get the truth.
just sayin..................

reply to post by drew1749


The offical position of the US Government is he is a credentialed diplomat with full diplomatic immunity. He says 2 people approached him with guns in order to rob him. He shot and killed both in self defense.

Pakistan is saying the 2 people who were shot and killed werre actually ISI agents who were tracking him. They say he was invovled in trying to get nuclear material / weapon to al queida.

There are always 3 sides to the truth.

Their side, the other side, and the truth.

There is another thread but this is up to date. Speculation is he is a CIA operative who may very well have been attempting to sell nukes, but only to flush out higher ups in al queida to eliminate them.

Regardless of the story, if he has full diplomatic immunity, Pakistan cannot hold him. Its a breach of diplomatic protocol.

reply to post by stirling


not sure of what you're talking about, but i do recall a post on here a few days ago in that someone was trying to sell nuclear weapons to some "terrorist" organization, but the article that was posted was from eutimes, which is a known sorchaa faal hoax hub. unless there was something else you got that from

as for the incident, i've read that pakistani officials DID say this guy was spying(although they preferred not to be named), and the two men who were killed were allegedly ISI agents, so i'm not sure. could be a genuine mugging gone wrong, but i can't see the guys not shooting back if they had firearms like official reports say, as well as them allegedly being ISI agents. i'm calling BS on some degree, there's too much being thrown around for there not to be something to hide.

www.abovetopsecret.com... existing thread here but from what i read on that other ats members seemed to have figured a few questions out but seemed to add a few more questions as well seems like this hasent resolved its self yet i just hope we can get to the bottom of this

If any of this story is to be taken at face value, I'll lay odds the American was involved in staging some of the "suicide" attacks plaguing Pakistan and was being shadowed by the ISI.

He must have known killing two ISI operatives in broad daylight wouldn't be something he'd get away with, but he must have also figured that killing them in broad daylight was better than letting them get the word out about whatever it was they saw him doing. Maybe he wanted to be caught in a very public way so they couldn't kill him in private.

I know it has been on before, but I just saw the latest on this on Aussy news (SBS so therfore credible).

One thing that stood out to me, they made note that he is, as my ex-mother-in-law called me, a "professional killer".

I dont know, & none of us do, what happened. I have a problem with the fact that, just because this guy is trained how to shoot straight, that makes his 'crime' considerably worse. Why ? The target was in a car, he couldn't go for a disabling shot.

What do they expect him to do, close his eyes so he is on par with the average person, potentially hitting innocents ???

Yes I was in the Army. Yes I was trained how to do things the 'efficient, proper way', but why does that make him (or me) instantly a criminal mastermind ? Self defence (if thats what it was) is self defence, nomatter what you skill level. I am sure there are hunters out there who are just as skilled with firearms as a trained soldier.

Again, I dont know what happened or if it was self defence, but I am a bit over this "he is trained therefore..." rubbish.

Originally posted by SNAFU38Yes I was in the Army. Yes I was trained how to do things the 'efficient, proper way', but why does that make him (or me) instantly a criminal mastermind ? Self defence (if thats what it was) is self defence, nomatter what you skill level. I am sure there are hunters out there who are just as skilled with firearms as a trained soldier.

Again, I dont know what happened or if it was self defence, but I am a bit over this "he is trained therefore..." rubbish.

I wasn't in the army so I am guessing here and extrapolating on what I've heard from Police officers - that if you are trained to kill and you do it the "efficient, proper way", its a quick double-tap to the heart and/or head.

In this instance, they were shot 5 times each, including the back. Doesn't sound efficient to me.

This must be an international relations nightmare for some U.S. officials, especially the ones directly involved with dealing with Pakistan. Why do people have to go and do stupid and heartless things? It really does screw it up for the rest of us in a lot of ways.

reply to post by drew1749


When I first read this I wondered if this was part of the build up to a False Flag Terrorist attempt on the USA. The Powers that Be have used this formula often.

Here are the historical facts showing that they have done so before and in exactly the same way. Days of Infamy and The War on Terrorism


The formula, as shown in those articles is:
The first stage is to aggravate, literally to goad them until they had no choice but to strike back (sound familiar?)

The second prong of the strategy is to insulate. Keep the victims (that's us) from getting the information needed to protect themselves. JP Morgan: Our next big media player? And the kill switch for the internet.

The third and final stage is to Facilitate the attack: make it easy by offering no opposition. My thread: Napolitano sets stage for False Flag Terrorist Attack

If you have paid any attention it is obvious the Power That be are making their move within the next few decades to put in place their World Government. They used The USA as Cannon Fodder in the WWI to bring in the League of Nations. They used the USA as Cannon Fodder in WWII to bring in the United Nations when the League of Nations failed. I see no reason not to think they will use the USA to promote another war to collapse the USA and usher in their New World Order.

reply to post by Cecilofs


eh hitting two guys on motorcycles when your firing out the front of your own windsheild your bound to be a bit more sloppy then you normaly would but he did get them b4 they got him now we just have to see if they let him go and honor his diplomatic imunity or if they keep him for "extended" questioning

reply to post by Xcathdra


Raymond Davis shot each victim five times

I guess he was being thorough

On Feb. 13, the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) issued a statement demanding that the government of Pakistan execute U.S. government contractor Raymond Davis or turn him over to the TTP for judgment. Davis, a contract security officer for the CIA, has been in Pakistani custody since a Jan. 27 incident in which he shot two men who reportedly pointed a pistol at him in an apparent robbery attempt.

Pakistani officials have corroborated Davis’ version of events and, according to their preliminary report, Davis appears to have acted in self-defense. From a tactical perspective, the incident appears to have been (in tactical security parlance) a “good shoot,” but the matter has been taken out of the tactical realm and has become mired in transnational politics and Pakistani public sentiment. Whether the shooting was justified or not, Davis has now become a pawn in a larger game being played out between the United States and Pakistan.

When one considers the way similar periods of tension between the Pakistanis and Americans have unfolded in the past, it is not unreasonable to conclude that as this current period plays out, it could have larger consequences for Davis and for American diplomatic facilities and commercial interests in Pakistan. Unless the Pakistani government is willing and able to defuse the situation, the case could indeed provoke violent protests against the United States, and U.S. citizens and businesses in Pakistan should be prepared for this backlash. [continued]

www.stratfor.com...

reply to post by Soshh


If his story has been confirmed, and he has full diplomatic immunity, then Pakistan must release him, regardless of internal pressure or politics. Failure to abide by the Diplomatic Protocol, in my opinion jeopradizes all diplomats serving there.

If they are not going to honor that agreement, then there ambassador to the US needs to be rejected by the US Government as a valid representative for Pakistan (decertifing his standing) and expelling him from the US.

The whole point behind Diplomatic Immunity, aside from the host country being required to treat them as the US, and not a person, is to keep lines of communications open, even during times of war / unrest / soured relations.

reply to post by Xcathdra


The report also explains why it is very likely that he does not have full immunity.

The only people afforded full diplomatic immunity are those who are on a list of diplomats officially accredited as diplomatic agents by the receiving country. The rest of the foreign employees at an embassy or a consulate in the receiving country who are not on the diplomatic list and who are not accredited as diplomatic agents under the Vienna Convention are only protected by functional immunity. This means they are only protected from prosecution related to their official duties.

As a contract employee assigned to the U.S. Consulate in Lahore, Davis was likely not on the diplomatic list and probably did not enjoy full diplomatic immunity. He was probably considered a member of the administrative or technical staff. Protecting himself during a robbery attempt would not be considered part of his official function in the country, and therefore his actions that day would not be covered under functional immunity.

reply to post by Soshh


I kinda figured that.. My confusion is with the US Government saying he has diplomatic immunity.. Not something we would screw up since we know who has what..

reply to post by Xcathdra


Well you’d think so, but just because they say something it doesn’t mean that they believe that it is true. It isn’t the only thing that isn’t clear about this case! From what we know now, it appears that he does not have full immunity, but the courts have 3 weeks to "decide" whether he has full immunity or not.

I assume that there is/will be a lot of manoeuvring in the background and that the US will be trying to influence the outcome as best they can. They are going to look after their man, so it is only natural that they would argue that he has full immunity throughout. It would look odd if the courts suddenly decide that he has, cue fanfares and confetti. It would still look a bit off though, as I’m pretty sure that “security consultants” on contract for CIA do not qualify as diplomatic agents, and at least one politician with access to the relevant documents has said that he does not have full immunity.

There is also public opinion to consider, they want to make Davis look as legitimate as possible rather than admit to having shady individuals running around Pakistan. Also if they state beforehand that he has got full immunity and the courts decide that he hasn't, then it would give the US a greater basis on which to make noise about it.

raymond-davis-lahore-cia


The American who shot dead two men on a Lahore street, triggering a diplomatic crisis between Pakistan and the United States, is a CIA agent who was on assignment at the time of the incident.

reply to post by muddyhoop




Do you have a verifiable source, or did the lamp tell us this? (sarcasm - no offense intended).

Seriously though, any sources to confirm?