VMI now set to celebrate the muslim conquest of Spain

What next celebrate 9-11 at all our military academies? When will all this PC stuff end??

A fusion between two worlds began 1300 years ago with Tariq ibn Ziyad’s crossing of the Strait of Gibraltar in 711. Please join us to commemorate the brilliant contributions resulting from the blending of eastern and western cultures. The agenda will tell the vital story of the achievements when Christians, Jews, and Muslims thrived side by side in Western Europe, building a society that lit the Dark Ages. Experts will discuss how to transform education, promote tolerance, civility, political reform, and advance human development so that we can emulate the spirit and triumphs of the early years.

Link

reply to post by HoldTheBeans

The achievements of the cultural fusion that resulted when adherents of Islam, Judaism and Christianity came together in peace and learning from each other as they did in Moslem occupied Spain were simply amazing. Mathmatics, astronomy, medicine, art - these are but a few of the fields that prospered and advanced. I don't see a problem with studying this era.

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
What next celebrate 9-11 at all our military academies? When will all this PC stuff end??

A fusion between two worlds began 1300 years ago with Tariq ibn Ziyad’s crossing of the Strait of Gibraltar in 711. Please join us to commemorate the brilliant contributions resulting from the blending of eastern and western cultures. The agenda will tell the vital story of the achievements when Christians, Jews, and Muslims thrived side by side in Western Europe, building a society that lit the Dark Ages. Experts will discuss how to transform education, promote tolerance, civility, political reform, and advance human development so that we can emulate the spirit and triumphs of the early years.

Link

Really? You insist on confusing the two issues? That cultural blending is why we have the advancements in society we have today. It's the intolerance from each faction and the people who use that intolerance for power that kills people like the 9/11 incident.

Or Hiroshima, for that matter. Or the holocaust. I could keep going. Those were all perpetrated by men with the attitude of intolerance.

reply to post by HoldTheBeans


Fortunately, the muslims bent on conquering all of western europe were defeated at the battle of Tours in France in 732 A.D.

Otherwise, instead of just starting to become muslim nations now, the countries of western europe would already be praying to mecca.



source

Interesting that some things never seem to change. The text says that although the exact number of soldiers on both sides is unknown, it is accepted that the muslim forces greatly outnumbered the franks that were defending what is modern-day france. In modern times, muslim armies are routinely defeated by much smaller forces in battle after battle.

Originally posted by LibertyLover
reply to post by HoldTheBeans

 

The achievements of the cultural fusion that resulted when adherents of Islam, Judaism and Christianity came together in peace and learning from each other as they did in Moslem occupied Spain were simply amazing. Mathmatics, astronomy, medicine, art - these are but a few of the fields that prospered and advanced. I don't see a problem with studying this era.

Tell that line to all the non muslims forced to live in dhimmitude under the horde.

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by HoldTheBeans

 

Fortunately, the muslims bent on conquering all of western europe were defeated at the battle of Tours in France in 732 A.D.

Otherwise, instead of just starting to become muslim nations now, the countries of western europe would already be praying to mecca.

source

Interesting that some things never seem to change. The text says that although the exact number of soldiers on both sides is unknown, it is accepted that the muslim forces greatly outnumbered the franks that were defending what is modern-day france. In modern times, muslim armies are routinely defeated by much smaller forces in battle after battle.

Well then they all could have lived in the same utopia that VMI is going to celebrate. Reconquering Spain is a stated goal of al Qaeda and with the help of the US military they may just do it.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
What next celebrate 9-11 at all our military academies? When will all this PC stuff end??

A fusion between two worlds began 1300 years ago with Tariq ibn Ziyad’s crossing of the Strait of Gibraltar in 711. Please join us to commemorate the brilliant contributions resulting from the blending of eastern and western cultures. The agenda will tell the vital story of the achievements when Christians, Jews, and Muslims thrived side by side in Western Europe, building a society that lit the Dark Ages. Experts will discuss how to transform education, promote tolerance, civility, political reform, and advance human development so that we can emulate the spirit and triumphs of the early years.

Link

Really? You insist on confusing the two issues? That cultural blending is why we have the advancements in society we have today. It's the intolerance from each faction and the people who use that intolerance for power that kills people like the 9/11 incident.

Or Hiroshima, for that matter. Or the holocaust. I could keep going. Those were all perpetrated by men with the attitude of intolerance.

Exactly what advancements in society are you speaking of?

reply to post by LibertyLover

The achievements of the cultural fusion that resulted when adherents of Islam, Judaism and Christianity came together in peace and learning from each other as they did in Moslem occupied Spain were simply amazing. Mathmatics, astronomy, medicine, art - these are but a few of the fields that prospered and advanced. I don't see a problem with studying this era.

I don't see a problem with studying Burn the Armada, Cordoba--the conquest-- either.

Sometimes you need to look at the means vs. the ends.

The Spanish were bloodily conquered, and they either had to convert to Islam or *pay* great monetary fees to the Muslims in order for the advancement to occur....war crimes come to mind....

Originally posted by sonjah1
reply to post by LibertyLover

 

The achievements of the cultural fusion that resulted when adherents of Islam, Judaism and Christianity came together in peace and learning from each other as they did in Moslem occupied Spain were simply amazing. Mathmatics, astronomy, medicine, art - these are but a few of the fields that prospered and advanced. I don't see a problem with studying this era.

I don't see a problem with studying Burn the Armada, Cordoba--the conquest-- either.

Sometimes you need to look at the means vs. the ends.

The Spanish were bloodily conquered, and they either had to convert to Islam or *pay* great monetary fees to the Muslims in order for the advancement to occur....war crimes come to mind....

edit on 8-2-2011 by sonjah1 because: (no reason given)

Yes but they aren't studying it they are celebrating it.

reply to post by HoldTheBeans

Yes but they aren't studying it they are celebrating it.

Well, that's just insane (please read my entire post); I'm hoping the "celebrating" is just a guise to increase participation in the conference...and that the whole truth (means v. ends) will come out during the conference...

VMI must be desperate for cash, or the whole US must be welcoming *our* new Muslim invasion, it seems...

reply to post by HoldTheBeans

Jews lived better under Muslims in Spain than they did under Christians anywhere in Europe. The Christians expelled the Jews when they reconquered Hispania. Muslims and Jews that were allowed to remain were forcibly converted. The Spanish Inquisition hunted those who had not converted fully.

You can read about some Andalusian cultural achievements here and here.

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by HoldTheBeans
What next celebrate 9-11 at all our military academies? When will all this PC stuff end??

A fusion between two worlds began 1300 years ago with Tariq ibn Ziyad’s crossing of the Strait of Gibraltar in 711. Please join us to commemorate the brilliant contributions resulting from the blending of eastern and western cultures. The agenda will tell the vital story of the achievements when Christians, Jews, and Muslims thrived side by side in Western Europe, building a society that lit the Dark Ages. Experts will discuss how to transform education, promote tolerance, civility, political reform, and advance human development so that we can emulate the spirit and triumphs of the early years.

Link

Really? You insist on confusing the two issues? That cultural blending is why we have the advancements in society we have today. It's the intolerance from each faction and the people who use that intolerance for power that kills people like the 9/11 incident.

Or Hiroshima, for that matter. Or the holocaust. I could keep going. Those were all perpetrated by men with the attitude of intolerance.

Exactly what advancements in society are you speaking of?

What the heck kind of question is that?! Anytime you have multiple isolated cultures with completely different skill-sets and technologies come together, they all end up with that very same knowledge.

If my farming family met your ranching family, we would both know how to farm and ranch. If there were any killing, it would be because somebody in one of our families were intolerant of the other.

reply to post by LibertyLover


Sorry not to be able to S&F you.

The Al Andaluz was the first enlightened civilization in the European Continent. It not only gave Southern Europe all the technology later used, or misused, to navigate the Oceans; it gave them Art, Civilization, and tolerance. The University of Cordoba, and it's famous libraries, preceded the "first" European University (at Bologna), by ~400 years. Almost all medical assistance to the Kings, and Noble families of Europe, came from this Civilization, as did the inventors, and the commerce, not to mention fashion, music, poetry, and so on.
Unfortunately it would fall, due to the inner wars between Baghdad, and Damascus; and, even though for a short period, it became a prosperous Caliphate, it would fall victim of the radicalization, both of the Islamic, and the Christian camps...

The Al Andaluz is certainly something to be celebrated, remembered, and serve as an example of the triumph of multiculturalism.

Thanks for your great answer, and forgive the usual stupidity, ignorance, and fanaticism, that grow ever more rampant on this site.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap

Let's be a bit more accurate.

Christians didn't run Jews out of Europe.

The Catholic Church ran the Jews out of every place they could.

The Catholic Church. Wasn't much Christian about it.

Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by SmedleyBurlap

 

Let's be a bit more accurate.

Christians didn't run Jews out of Europe.

The Catholic Church ran the Jews out of every place they could.

The Catholic Church. Wasn't much Christian about it.

I know the bible-belt folks like to say that Catholics are not Christians but... every time a Christian picks up a bible, they are submitting to Catholic authority. Also, they are the ones who made up that whole "Holy Trinity" that evangelicals are wild about.

I'm not of either party but I always find it convenient that Post-Catholicism-Christians claim the Catholic-compiled bible as their own and the Holy Trinity as theirs yet, when things like genocide and subjugation come up, they are suddenly not "Christians".

reply to post by HoldTheBeans


If a college isn't hosting conferences and symposia on important historical events and discussing their significance, it's not doing its job. As a Virginian (even having lived in the same town as VMI), I can assure you that it's the last place that would ever unduly glorify Islam, terrorism, or anything of the sort.

Personally, I'm thankful for algebra, alcohol, and all the other ideas, words, and technologies that Muslims have given us.

reply to post by FarArcher


You have to stop living in that revisionist Protestant history. The Catholic Church is closer to the source of Christianity than any Protestant sect (all of which originated in northern Europe, from Germanic peoples who had absolutely zero historical contact with the Jewish civilization or the Early Church).

Blah blah blah Protestants read the Bible and Catholics include innovations that are not in the Bible. This tired old Puritanical argument is the only real defense of Protestantism's legitimacy against the Popes. Who does that sound like?

Fundamentalist Muslims hate innovation too!

Every innovation is a misguidance and every misguidance goes to Hell fire.

Originally posted by CerBeRus666
reply to post by LibertyLover

 

Sorry not to be able to S&F you.

The Al Andaluz was the first enlightened civilization in the European Continent. It not only gave Southern Europe all the technology later used, or misused, to navigate the Oceans; it gave them Art, Civilization, and tolerance. The University of Cordoba, and it's famous libraries, preceded the "first" European University (at Bologna), by ~400 years. Almost all medical assistance to the Kings, and Noble families of Europe, came from this Civilization, as did the inventors, and the commerce, not to mention fashion, music, poetry, and so on.
Unfortunately it would fall, due to the inner wars between Baghdad, and Damascus; and, even though for a short period, it became a prosperous Caliphate, it would fall victim of the radicalization, both of the Islamic, and the Christian camps...

The Al Andaluz is certainly something to be celebrated, remembered, and serve as an example of the triumph of multiculturalism.

Thanks for your great answer, and forgive the usual stupidity, ignorance, and fanaticism, that grow ever more rampant on this site.

"The Al Andaluz"? That's like saying "the the Adalusia" I guess Arabic isn't your first language.

Navigation: several previous civilizations that had oceangoing capabilities would be interested in hearing your asessment, I think.

Libraries: the most famous, at Alexandria, seriously predates Islam period, much less Andalusia, and was DESTROYED by the conquering muslims. I hardly consider libraries to be an Andalusian innovation.

Art: also predates Andalusia in southern Europe, and of higher quality, too. Of course, quality of art can be considered to be in the eye of the beholder, eh?

Civilization: You're attributing this to the Moors? HOW?

Tolerance: yeah, as long as the one tolerated was a muslim. The rest of the population either entered dhimmitude, or died. Dhimmitude carried some ridiculously odd restrictions of it's own, designed to keep the dhimmis in their proper place.

Medical, fashion, invention, commerce, music, poetry, and so on: NONE of these were introduced or improved by the Moors. Frankly, I have to wonder where an odd notion like that comes from.

The Reconquista of Al Andalus is what should be celebrated and remembered, serving as an example of the triumph of freedom over the servitude of foreign conquest.

To the folks praising the Andalusian invention of alcohol: This is one of my all time favorites! The name alcohol is Arabic, the substance is not. It was around LONG before Islam, in diverse places, and the fact that what we call it now is Arabic serves me no end of amusement, since intoxicants are forbidden by Islam. How ironic it is that the most common name we give it now was bestowed by a people villifying it!

Originally posted by Cuervo

I know the bible-belt folks like to say that Catholics are not Christians but... every time a Christian picks up a bible, they are submitting to Catholic authority.

Negative.

If they were, they wouldn't pick up that bible at all. It was kept away from the laity, and even from the lower ranks of the clergy, for centuries by the catholics. It was only pressure from the Protestant Reformation that forced them to submit, and it took a couple of centuries for THAT to happen. Furthermore, even the cannon is different, with catholics allowing some books that protestants disallow as cannon.

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by HoldTheBeans

 

Fortunately, the muslims bent on conquering all of western europe were defeated at the battle of Tours in France in 732 A.D.

Thereby consigning the majority of western and Northenrn Europe to another eight hundred years of ignorance, squalor, and tribal warfare, overseen by corrupt dynasties of the rapist theocracy centered in Rome. Why, had the Umayyads managed to conquer Europe, those Pesky Jews might have not been burned at the stake quite so often! That wiuld be tragic, right?

Otherwise, instead of just starting to become muslim nations now, the countries of western europe would already be praying to mecca.

And that's tragic how? In fact had Islam taken Europe, the Industrial revolution would have likely kicked off about 1400 AD, and Islam worldwide would have been moderated by adding a huge population of christian converts who would influence the worldwide 'ulema.

The horror you feel towards islam is actually a product of the west's repeated attempts to conquer the middle east.

Interesting that some things never seem to change. The text says that although the exact number of soldiers on both sides is unknown, it is accepted that the muslim forces greatly outnumbered the franks that were defending what is modern-day france. In modern times, muslim armies are routinely defeated by much smaller forces in battle after battle.

What happens when you take a large army of men and animals from North Africa, and put them in close-quartered military camps in a cold, rainy portion of a subcontinent famous for outbreaks of bubonic plague?

Same thing that happens when you take a large number of Europeans from a cold rainy place and put them in the middle of a hot continent famous for its malaria outbreaks.