"Exopolitics" Group Claims Stunning UFO Proof!

My guess is that there'll be something that passes as evidence, and it'll take a while to prove that it's fake. While that's being done though these guys will have tons of hits on their websites, etc, make a decent amount of cash, then not give a crap either way. (then come back another year for more.)

Being cynical sucks, I hope I'm wrong.

edit - pretty much agree with this :

Originally posted by Jinglelord
reply to post by zorgon

 

I've been noticing the lines blur between the obvious nuts and the real researches myself. At first I was a bit sad but I can't help but wonder if maybe the nuts were right and the reasonable researchers are starting to see it?

Perhaps they all know disclosure is coming and are trying to get as much attention as possible before their entire line of research becomes nullified?

Most likely I think the economy sucks and they are trying to get some extra cash secure in the knowledge that after a couple of years most people will forget they made ridiculous claims a few times...

Originally posted by cupocoffee
reply to post by schuyler

 

My point was, no one's going to want to even try to prove anything in here if we're creating such a hostile environment for them.

Sure they will. As long as there are people who see angelic light beings in a picture of a moth and are willing to shell out the $800, those kinds of claims will continue to be made.

If, for example, we demand good proper scientific method on the one hand, but on the other we call all UFO spiritualists lunatic witch doctors and encourage everyone to kill them. I really don't think that's proper scientific method!

KILL them??? I've never heard that myself, but if there are spiritualistic lunatic witch doctors out there, why can't we point that out?

Umm, if we want people like Steven Greer to prove stuff for us, shouldn't we try being nice to him? Just a thought!

How much more BS do we need to take? Greer has shown his colors time and time again, as has Billy Meier and Michael Horn. It's an insult to anyone with a modicum of intelligence. Here we have a guy who assembles some parts from eBay to make a "ray gun" and "prove" ETs are here. What do you think he's thinking when he does this? Is he thinking, "I've got to save humanity from itself!" or is he thinking, "These idiots will believe anything. Ka ching!"

Billy Meier and Steven Greer have been proven charlatans. They've been caught. It's over. We don't NEED 'proof'' from them because they are known charlatans. It's a waste of time to seek it. They have defrauded the public. The proof of this is above (unless you believe that moth is a Light Being or that the ray gun is real) and has been discussed in dozens of threads for years here and elsewhere. Use the search feature and you will find THOUSANDS of posts on these two.

The "scientific method" has already been applied to these claims. It was someone at ATS who discovered the ray gun parts on eBay. It was someone on ATS who found and compared the woodland moth with the light being and took the trouble to make a composite picture. Their claims have been previously analyzed and found to be fraudulent. It's rather late to be claiming we need to apply the scientific method.

reply to post by cupocoffee


Ok, I see your point. Perhaps it is bad science. But as a tool for searching for extra terrestrial life, even bad science is better than absolutely no science, which is what is offered by these people. They do not publish actual results , they publish thier conversations with the overmind or whatever.
If they gave a damn about PROOVING the existance of intelligent extraterrestrial beings, they would be attatched to machinery every day , so that thier every waking thought was on a graph somewhere, recorded, and compared with regular meditaional thought patterns, as opposed to the thought patterns involved with commune with an alien entity .
That way they would at least have SOME proof rather than absolutely no evidence for anything they have ever said, or anything they have ever implied about :

a) the capability to contact extraterrestrials, after all, its pretty convienient that unless you happen to be one of these swamis of the stars, you just cant do it , so seeing for ones self seems to be a matter of personal ability (thats right, blame the logical thinker for trusting logic more than witchcraft and cheap tricks).

b) anything they have ever claimed that an alien said to them, or they said to an alien. There is no PROOF that any of the twaddle about the names of the species out there, and the names of the planets they live on, and thier political dealings and thier complexity or lack thereof depending which liar you are listening to , is true, and handily enough they cannot prove any of that either,for the reasons stated in a).

c) what any of it means for human society here on Earth. Trouble is , I totaly dig some of the points that people like Collier make about the mistakes we make as a society , I really do. I just wish people would make those points because they are right to make, rather than because it gets people sitting in thier chairs weeping and joyful to hear some truth in amongst that fat slovenly swines BS. Its right that we should grow our own produce, remember how to fix stuff, and avoid material gain unless it replaces something we have lost, rather than hording and all that. I totaly agree.
Using that truth as a trojan horse for a bunch of bullcrap about a holographic politics in space, and how everything that happens there seems to be holographic (yes , Collier particularly seems addicted to a word he has no understanding of the meaning of) however, is utterly reprehensible. Collier and his ilk are very good liars, because they know you pack in enough nuggets of earth shattering wisdom, and people will believe that you are the Virgin soddin' Mary , no matter which gender you happen to be , or how far from virgin hood you may or may not be.

Until the day , when those who have spread that particular plauge of ignorance can bring before us widely acceptable , non exclusive and completely payment free proof of thier claims, that cannot be refuted, they will be nothing but wastes of resources that should be spent on more fruitful enterprises, ones which have results that everyone can access, rather than this clique based hippy magnet.

The Wilcox Gang. That's funny. I really enjoyed hearing his "take" and perspective.

Until he SO non-chalantley showed how he COULD be Edgar Cayce reincarnated. Took away SO much credibility.
Not saying he isn't. He says maybe yes...maybe no..
This channeling thing is pretty amazing...
If they CHANNELED all the info at Flying Saucer Cafe tomorrow......I'll eat YOUR hat.

Originally posted by schuyler
Sure they will. As long as there are people who see angelic light beings in a picture of a moth and are willing to shell out the $800, those kinds of claims will continue to be made.

Exactly, people are still willing to pay to attend the expeditions in person, so what's Greer's motivation to come to a forum like ATS and try to prove anything? Zero!

20 years and people are still going on these expeditions, and paying quite a bit of money to do it too, gee that can't be significant. They must just be seeing moths and insects out there, yeah......

KILL them??? I've never heard that myself, but if there are spiritualistic lunatic witch doctors out there, why can't we point that out?

Have a look at TrueBrit's post again. He didn't actually use the word 'kill' this time, but he has in other threads....

Now to me, when I see people saying that UFO spiritualists should be killed, that suggests that they're doing something that's WORKING and therefore are a THREAT. Why else would certain people want them dead?

Billy Meier and Steven Greer have been proven charlatans. They've been caught. It's over.

It's over? Really? I don't know about Meier but I still see all of Greer's websites up and running, I still see people paying to go on the expeditions, I still see Greer getting his rock-star treatment everywhere he goes....

Please explain to me how's it "over" for Greer?

The "scientific method" has already been applied to these claims. It was someone at ATS who discovered the ray gun parts on eBay. It was someone on ATS who found and compared the woodland moth with the light being and took the trouble to make a composite picture. Their claims have been previously analyzed and found to be fraudulent. It's rather late to be claiming we need to apply the scientific method.

The scientific method has never been applied to Greer's actual technique, his "CE-5" protocol.

Simply pointing to the worst, stupidest photo CSETI have ever posted over and over does not disprove the actual technique.

(They have better footage up on Youtube now, after all these years, but does it ever get mentioned? No, why, when we can just keep posting the stupid moth pic over and over, right?)

reply to post by rinowilli


I want a hoverboard too... get me one!

Not making any judgements about the content of this lecture but if you look online, the cafe that's hosting this event (a tiny, hole in the wall coffee shop) lists the admission price at $10.00 per person. I don't know where the $800 admission price came from...
Here's the link:
Flying Saucer Cafe

reply to post by schuyler


Schuyler, cupofcoffee is correct in that I have previously stated that I would like to bash open the skulls of some of the Greerites, Hornites , and all the others too , just to see what the hell the drugs they are all on have done to thier brains, and to ensure that resources being expended on the search for extraterrestrial intelligence remains the purview of those best equiped to actualy deliver results that mean something, are tangible, and may lead to contact.
I would like to make the example of the Kepler space telescope, and the work being done by biologists planet wide which come together , amongst other things, to say with a firm voice that not only is life elsewhere in the reaches of space possible, its highly likely .
The Kepler space telescope has located one thousand five hundred exoplanets, that is, planets outside our own solar system. Of those something like fifty four may be able to harbour life which has similarities with things we would find here on Earth. Its been in orbit for what, two years? And all this progress already ? Now , re read the part about how many planets it has found, and how many of those may harbour familiar life.
Now, consider this. Biologists in the field of research pertaining to extremophile lifeforms have identified life, existing in locations on our own planet, which until very very recently we thought absolutely impossible. Life without air, life without light of any kind, life buried for thirty four thousand years in hibernation, which then wakes up and begins its every day function as if it had never been buried. These things are bizzare, improbable, and until very recently were considered the stuff of science fiction.
We now know that life on our own planet is so diverse that we are having to constantly change our veiws on where to even begin to LOOK for life forms. We are begining to see mainstream science accept that we cannot know whats out there anymore, without going and looking for it, that even our best guesses are being made about life, from a position of the utmost ignorance.
The combination discoveries of more extremophile lifeforms, and more exoplanets, means that for every new discovery in either field, the percentage likelihood of us one day coming across a complex lifeform in the cosmos increase.
This is good hard science being done in our name, with exploration and true dedication, and rigour befitting a serious investigation. It is these virtuous examples of research and others which augment them, which deserve the unyeilding and unwavering attention of the population, and for every bone head sinking hundreds of dollars into seminars on alien yoga, thats hundreds of dollars not being spent on a genuine prospect.
That prospect being mans eventual transition from observer to visitor.
These wasted dollars that people pay to see the liars, watch the monkey do his dance, are dollars that should be being pushed into engine technologies, and eventual passing of the speed of light, research into hibernative or regenerative treatments that will keep a manned mission alive during huge journeys, sheilding against radiation and asteroid and micro meteor impact, and of course the tools of science which will need to be fitted to any explorator vessels we may in the future send forth to the stars.
My views may come across as extremist on this issue, and I may blow hard about how lovely it would be to ventilate the skulls of the cultists to confirm the tiny wieght of thier brains, but all that is born out of a fustration in the stupidity of the situation in which we find ourselves. We all want the truth, but some of us cant help spending our money on regressive and untestable contact with aliens which cannot be proven to exist by the means of contact alone, rather than spending the money on something which given a little patience, determined prodding, and determined funding, will certainly bare fruit at some point. Its a garuntee. I guess Im just sick of seeing people ignore the only legitimate way we are ever going to achieve contact with an alien species.

Originally posted by Makuahine
Not making any judgements about the content of this lecture but if you look online, the cafe that's hosting this event (a tiny, hole in the wall coffee shop) lists the admission price at $10.00 per person. I don't know where the $800 admission price came from...
Here's the link:
Flying Saucer Cafe

Makuahine, I notice your in So. Cal.
ANY chance you be there and film this "historic" moment? I'll buy the ticket. You film it.. Post on ATS..Let's debate the material..And I'll send in a reimbusement request from ATS AFTER you post footage.
Good?
OK..How about just driving to Santa Monica on a Friday and TELL us the news?.. Bad idea?,good?maybe?

"Stephen was unable to present any actual, verifiable evidence to support his claims at the first presentation so this should be the moment that everyone's been waiting for. I think that Ryan Morris, the owner of the cafe, also wants him to have a second chance to put the evidence on the table and answer the tough questions he couldn't last time.

"Since he's already privately acknowledged that the Billy Meier UFO contact case is authentic, I expect Stephen to reveal proof comparable to Meier's voluminous, scientifically authenticated evidence. And maybe he'll also explain why he's never openly acknowledged, let alone investigated and publicized the Meier case, the only one I do know to be an authentic, still ongoing UFO contact case."
www.prweb.com...


WOW... Stephen has already "privately" authenticated Billy Meier's case. Wow... I'll pay the 10bucks admission for you, even if ATS won't reimburse me. No snacks... Water...all you can drink.
Validated Parking? Get that from the owner of the Cafe.

No wondor we're perceived as a little "off." I'm using the owner of the Flying Saucer Cafe in a quote.

Not hijacking thread. Done.

reply to post by cupocoffee

Please explain to me how's it "over" for Greer?

Greer is a proven charlatan. Yes, there will continue to be credulous people who will pay for his camping trips just like people will continue to believe Sylvia Browne is psychic, but as for being taken as a serious ufologist or a serious researcher, it's over for Greer. NO serious researcher or, indeed, anyone simply just studying this subject, is going to take Greer or Meier seriously. He'll never be considered a Stan Friedman or even a Richard Dolan.

Given the wealth of material that has been assembled on these two, SURELY you cannot be advocating treating them seriously, do you? I mean, this is as bad as it gets. Exo-politics is the bottom of the barrel here and a big reason why Ufology is treated as a laughingstock. These guys have no credibility unless you give it to them. If you do, good luck with Mothra.

Originally posted by TrueBrit

My views may come across as extremist on this issue, and I may blow hard about how lovely it would be to ventilate the skulls of the cultists to confirm the tiny wieght of thier brains, but all that is born out of a fustration in the stupidity of the situation in which we find ourselves. We all want the truth, but some of us cant help spending our money on regressive and untestable contact with aliens which cannot be proven to exist by the means of contact alone, rather than spending the money on something which given a little patience, determined prodding, and determined funding, will certainly bare fruit at some point. Its a garuntee. I guess Im just sick of seeing people ignore the only legitimate way we are ever going to achieve contact with an alien species.

TrueBrit

I hate to keep going on about Greer, since this thread is actually about Bassett and PRG.

My only point is that, to the best of my knowledge, skeptic sites such as ATS or Paracast have never made any organized, scientific effort to test Greer's actual premise and technique.

Instead it's always about the stupid moth photo, or the Woolsey letter, all the most negative evidence. "Moth photo. Case closed!"

To me, when every contactee is saying that the aliens use telepathy to communicate, then the natural next step is to try to use telepathy to communicate with them. Right? That's just simple logic.

But it seems most people just want to focus on only the most negative evidence and jump to conclusions. Oh well.....

Originally posted by Jinglelord
Most likely I think the economy sucks and they are trying to get some extra cash secure in the knowledge that after a couple of years most people will forget they made ridiculous claims a few times...

THAT is most likely the answer. It doesn't seem to make a difference if you have good research these days. Sure there are those in the shadow that appreciated the good stuff... but overall one just has to look at the threads these days and all the work done a few years back? POOF Buried under tons of youtube orbs and hoaxes.

Maybe they figure "What the heck... people pay for the entertainment... might as well hop on the wagon" I have seen several sites gone subscription only, Earth files is one..

Sooo... anyone wanna buy a CD of cloud faces? I have some awesome ones

Originally posted by cupocoffee
To me, when every contactee is saying that the aliens use telepathy to communicate, then the natural next step is to try to use telepathy to communicate with them. Right? That's just simple logic.

Well here is my simple logic...

I need a ride to get some real pictures of the far side of the moon... Since there are thousands of people that claim to have contact, I would think asking for a little hop up there would not be that hard to find...

Its been 30 years... still waiting...

Originally posted by schuyler
Greer is a proven charlatan. Yes, there will continue to be credulous people who will pay for his camping trips just like people will continue to believe Sylvia Browne is psychic, but as for being taken as a serious ufologist or a serious researcher, it's over for Greer. NO serious researcher or, indeed, anyone simply just studying this subject, is going to take Greer or Meier seriously. He'll never be considered a Stan Friedman or even a Richard Dolan.

If Greer isn't taken seriously then please explain why he was an honored guest at the big international exopolitics conference in Spain and practically every other big UFO event?

Obviously, he IS taken seriously. Maybe not at ATS, but in other circles he is clearly taken seriously.

Given the wealth of material that has been assembled on these two, SURELY you cannot be advocating treating them seriously, do you?

Since all the contactees say that aliens use telepathy to communicate, Greer's technique should at least be tested to see if it works. As far as I know, this has never been done.

However I know ATS will never listen to me and I'm mostly just pissing in the wind here.

So - change subject back to Bassett and PRG?

reply to post by zorgon


Maybe the ETs don't want you snooping around in their outpost -- I mean the "moon"?

While it is certainly very simple logic, to assume that the way to contact a telepathic species is via that very format, we cannot prove that the methodologies work. It also does not hold weight, because most abductees were not in the habit of sitting cross legged in thier back yards trying to reach the overmind of the cosmos, nor did the majority of them decide to take up such a habit after thier expirience.
Most folks who have been abducted were operating (according to thier own testimony) the normal run of thier lives, driving from one place to another, working on a farm, or as a logger, or any one of a hundred occupations with which a person busies oneself in the course of a day , or nights work.
None of the most notable abductions have had mystics and swamis as thier victims, nor have the victims themselves ever shown signs of psychic or telepathic ability previous.
Yet these uninitiated folks communed perfectly well with the aliens who kidnapped them on several occasions, again according to testimony that the victims themselves provided. They were not chosen as channelers, they were not special , nor had they been trained to recieve signals that you or I would require a trance state and practice to hear , according to those who claim "we have just forgotten how to hear them" *pukes at the idiocy of such a claim*.
Since we can confirm that if alien beings are indeed telepathic, and if they are capable of communication with persons who do not meditate, and are not hippies, and have not abandoned all scientific sense and reason, why oh why must it be, that the people against whom my anger is directed, insist that we must learn how to hear them, that we are some how holding ourselves back from the reality that is all around us?
It is clearly not the case that we need training, or to attend a seminar, or a meeting, or buy a book in order to use what must be a natural part of all of us, if the abduction victims are anything to go by as a sample of persons. Since we can firmly establish that no training is ACTUALY required therefore to be contacted by an alien, since channelers must therefore be extremely selfish to insinuate otherwise (which they do), just what are people paying hundreds of dollars for? Well that would be, exactly what I thought... nothing. They are paying for a product which cannot be said to actualy exist, since training cannot possibly be required if the evidence of abductees is anything to go by .
And yet, even those of us who desire contact with alien species, even those of us who have imaginations which CAN visualise the universe in four dimensions are not contacted. I personaly would be very happy to have an alien conciousness commune with my own, where it actualy happening. But it isnt. This is suggestive.
It cannot be the case that only SOME people can be telepathicaly accessed, because that doesnt fit with the apparantly random sets of people, of various educational achievement and intellectual capability who have been contacted when abducted.
So what are Greer and everyone who is remotely like Greer trying to pull, if thier only messege is that there is nothing between you and the alien mind speakers?
Then , and I must come back to this, GREER and his people are the ones who should be getting scientific about thier methods. If they are so determined to take peoples money from them ( and they are) then they MUST provide proof that people who do not currently believe them, cannot refute. If they cannot do this, then they should not be belived by ANYONE. If they cannot get a brainwave scanner together, and take control samples of normal thought, meditational thought, and a clearly different set of readings when they are actualy communing with the alien, then they are obviously talking nonsense. It is not for other people to prove thier ridiculous theory , it is a responsibility THEY must fulfill if they wish credibility.
And none of this takes away from the true cause of my ire, which is that regardless of these morons, real hard science is making headway that EVERYONE can access , read about for free, and crucialy is not insistant on people believing things that have no actual basis in truth , and even better, requires NO belief in the personality or trustworthyness of some of the shadiest and slickest conmen ever born to this planet.

Originally posted by cupocoffee
If Greer isn't taken seriously then please explain why he was an honored guest at the big international exopolitics conference in Spain and practically every other big UFO event?

Because Greer and Exopolitics both are a joke and cut from the same cloth. If Sylvia Browne keynoted an astrology convention would that mean Sylvia Browne was therefore a psychic? That these people associate with each other should not be surprising. Look at who is sponsoring these "big events." Hint: It's not Mufon.

Since all the contactees say that aliens use telepathy to communicate, Greer's technique should at least be tested to see if it works. As far as I know, this has never been done.

However I know ATS will never listen to me and I'm mostly just pissing in the wind here.

Why are you so passive? If that's what you think needs to be done, go do it. Neither ATS nor any other forum is equipped to do research. You don't need a forum's sanction to go study Greer's "technique" or invoke the scientific method. I think ATS would listen to your results, but I'm not surprised ATS as a whole does not listen to you belly aching that ATS isn't doing what you think it should.

For my part what I wish is that people would avail themselves of the tremendous amount of information that ATS has accumulated over the years, which is its forte. There is a great deal of information on Greer and Meier on these threads with lots more than just Mothra and a ray gun as evidence of fraud. You could spend days going through it.

The thing is, once you are caught in a lie, your credibility vanishes. Given a limit on time & resources, there's no reason to "study" someone's techniques when they've been caught out already. In Meier's case, for example, people have found the pieces he used to construct the models. the "wedding cake" UFO used a grain can lid found on Billy's farm as a base. They found the lid. The picture he took when he went back in time to the land of the dinosaurs was taken from a book. We found the book. Semjase, the fair haired alien turns out to be an actress who appeared on Dean Martin. They found the episode.

Once you catch these folks in lie after lie there is no good reason to continue paying attention to them. They have displayed their character for all to see.

But if you think it is worthwhile, by all means knock yourself out.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Jinglelord
Most likely I think the economy sucks and they are trying to get some extra cash secure in the knowledge that after a couple of years most people will forget they made ridiculous claims a few times...

THAT is most likely the answer. It doesn't seem to make a difference if you have good research these days. Sure there are those in the shadow that appreciated the good stuff... but overall one just has to look at the threads these days and all the work done a few years back? POOF Buried under tons of youtube orbs and hoaxes.

Maybe they figure "What the heck... people pay for the entertainment... might as well hop on the wagon" I have seen several sites gone subscription only, Earth files is one..

Sooo... anyone wanna buy a CD of cloud faces? I have some awesome ones

Both of you beat me to it. The objective is operating funds. Kinda like an A screen actor starring in a B movie during the hard times? We all gotta eat. Now, will that big hootered crazy babe be there with her insane predictions?

reply to post by TrueBrit


Of course it takes no special training or experience to RECEIVE a telepathic communication, from beings who are already adept at it!

But to SEND a telepathic message, coherently, across vast interstellar distances? That may require some training and practice. Maybe even a $1000 training