The teachings of Christ are logically, intelligently, undeniably the Truth. Test it!

reply to post by freedish


Nothing could be farther from the truth. I REFUSE to believe in the bible because of it's contradictions, it's insane portrayal of righteousness as a callous, cold hearted, incestual, genocidal, egotistical, maniacal god who's version of his utmost greatest gift to humanity is not to punish them for the mess he got them in to, via their ancestors, if only they will devote their entire lives to him. If christ's teachings are so beneficial to you, I implore you to follow the example - sell all you have and give it to the poor and follow him. He said you can ask for anything in his name and he will give it to you. Follow that route. With divine protection like that, you won't have to worry about seatbelts, insurance, medical bills, locking your doors at night, lightening damage, cavities, or the like.
If it's so divine, and so holy, and so right - you'd be a FOOL not to do everything right down to the letter to avoid the flames of hell and to reap the rewards of divine stewardship while still on earth. There is no one that can bring themselves to do this! Even the most devout christians lock their doors & set the alarms at night. Where is your divine protection? Why are you even on a conspiracy website in the first place? Surely your god will keep you safe and sound! Right? No worries when the big YHWH is your bodyguard, eh?
Don't want to believe? You're right in that. I don't want to believe that, because I believe it is wrong and twisted.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Thank you for this post. I am a believer in Christ. I had a couple of questions...Have you read The Q? The book of Thomas or The Book of Enoch? Why doesn't the church recognize them? just because they are not a part of Canon.

reply to post by FredT


The parable of the withered fig tree, Matthew 17-21, is closely tied to the Parable of the Sower, Matthew 13, especially this part: :

11-15

11He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

15For this people’s heart has become calloused;

they hardly hear with their ears,

and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

hear with their ears,

understand with their hearts

and turn, and I would heal them.

First of all, everything that was said, is not said straight forward, its not clearly spoken word for word, there is a lot of intelligence, sophistication, and parables or metaphor being given.

So first lets deal with the last part, Faith is really important. With Love and seeing with the eye of Light, we seek to improve on ourselves and abilities to serve others, and pray, filled with gratitude and humility, appreciation, often given experiences, dreams inner connects, we gain protection. The Light protects it own in this duality school, we are safe and live by faith, and miracles do happen for us. The metaphorical mountain can move,as can a mountain of obstacles in our path. They don't necessarily mean a literal landmass upheaval however.

The withered fig tree is akin to those who are given more, who have used their talents to serve others, uncovered them, put them to service, and those who have not done so, will lose theirs, but even this temporal, and has to do with intent and ability and some are late bloomers, I know I am. We can and should always pray to be healed and to truly see and gain awareness.

So many of us have full cups already, and we think we know, politically we know, economically, we think we know, we are always patting ourselves on the back for the answers we think we have, while all about us billions are starving and they don't quite get the same opportunity as we have, but we don't see this. In truth, we are bought off by the traps of the world, and worldliness, and don't see that our treasures should be in Heaven or the Beyond.

So, alot of this is metaphor and parable. Its about how we seek, within, pray, have faith and ask to find our way, serve others, wake up to the way the world is, have gratitude, thanksgiving, compassion, and seek to uncover the true treasures, the pearls, that which has everlasting value, non perishable: unconditional love and progression.

Now I'm not traditional, more Quantum Physics, Metaphysics, New Age Christian. Did you know that we're all infinite consciousness and in Infinity there is no measurement that can be made, no greater, smaller, higher/lower, future/past. No Time, and its all at once, so there are Infinite Progressing versions of ourselves, sometimes regressing, but those U-Turns need to be made by us all, whenever we lose our way.

Originally posted by MysteriousEyes1
Thank you for this post. I am a believer in Christ. I had a couple of questions...Have you read The Q? The book of Thomas or The Book of Enoch? Why doesn't the church recognize them? just because they are not a part of Canon.

Your welcome my friend. I have not read the Quran, if this is what you mean by Q. However, I have discussed Islam with Muslims and find their faith as beautiful as that of any other. I believe some of their followers have made the same mistake followers of other faiths have made, and that is to deify the messengers rather than learn the lessons. As for the book of Thomas and Enoch, I have read them but do not know why the church does not recognise them. There is an agenda in the Canon, but I will not comment on that here as this is not meant to be a divisive thread, but rather one strictly on the teachings of Christ, which have no agenda other than uniting mankind into one family of love.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


You could just give us the short form. I mean, I could also show that the teachings of Jesus as depicted in the four Gospels are illogical, unintelligible, undeniably false on many counts.

Jesus is against the taking of oaths (Matthew 5:34-37), which I find somewhat illogical in a lawful society.
Jesus puts out the biggest lie in the whole of the Bible in Matthew 7:7-8, saying:

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

In Matthew 10:1 Jesus links illness to demonic and evil spirits in the body and gives his disciples authority to cast them out...this has caused the death of quite a few people in exorcisms and was the cause of suppression of medical science for centuries.

These are just a few examples from the first Gospel (well, publishing order wise).

Originally posted by sykickvision
Nothing could be farther from the truth. I REFUSE to believe in the bible because of it's contradictions, it's insane portrayal of righteousness as a callous, cold hearted, incestual, genocidal, egotistical, maniacal god who's version of his utmost greatest gift to humanity is not to punish them for the mess he got them in to, via their ancestors, if only they will devote their entire lives to him.

My friend, the bible isn't something to be believed. It is merely a vessel. What it holds is Truth. The funny thing about Truth is that is is true with or without your belief.

Originally posted by sykickvision
If christ's teachings are so beneficial to you, I implore you to follow the example - sell all you have and give it to the poor and follow him.

Done.

Now if everyone did this we would have a world were material things no longer have value, and all would have access to all. Then we could re-build the world based on equality for all rather than our current systems of inequity. This is the truth contained in that book you disbelieve.

Originally posted by sykickvision
He said you can ask for anything in his name and he will give it to you. Follow that route. With divine protection like that, you won't have to worry about seatbelts, insurance, medical bills, locking your doors at night, lightening damage, cavities, or the like.

You are absolutely correct. I do not worry about these things.

Originally posted by sykickvision
If it's so divine, and so holy, and so right - you'd be a FOOL not to do everything right down to the letter to avoid the flames of hell and to reap the rewards of divine stewardship while still on earth. There is no one that can bring themselves to do this!

I have been through hell, walked with others while they battled their own inner demons, rejected Christ, denounced God, and dared him numerous times to strike me down, yet through it all I found him, found Christs teachings to be true, discovered divine mercy, and I live to tell about it. My friend, if I can do these things that Christ taught, anyone can. It is a choice, you either choose to do it or you do not. I chose to do it because I see the logic in doing what Christ taught. If everyone did we would have the Heaven promised us, we would love one another equally, and Man would usher in a new golden age unlike any other yet seen. I cannot expect anyone else to do it if I am unwilling myself. So, yes I did exactly what Christ said do. I am not being boastful, simply showing that it can be done. I have faith that if it takes me a thousand lives to accomplish it, doing these things will bring about the world we want of peace and prosperity for all. Never say it cannot be done. Someone will always prove you wrong.

Originally posted by sykickvision
Even the most devout christians lock their doors & set the alarms at night. Where is your divine protection? Why are you even on a conspiracy website in the first place? Surely your god will keep you safe and sound! Right? No worries when the big YHWH is your bodyguard, eh?
Don't want to believe? You're right in that. I don't want to believe that, because I believe it is wrong and twisted.

Again, I have done all these things. I do not know any thieves. If someone takes something I have, they myst have need of it greater than I. I do not need protection. This physical life will end one way or another. I prefer to live it loving and trusting my fellow man. It is all about perspective my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother

This explains it all in one story Christ Told:
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
In the parable of the sower and the seed, the discourse was about how men accept the word of God in different ways, and how this word affects men in different ways. In the next parable ­ that of the wheat and the tares ­ Christ speaks of the fourth portion of seed, which had fallen on good ground, and how the enemy of man's salvation does everything possible in order to ruin that which grows in this good ground. The parable of the wheat and the tares is extremely topical for our days, when people raise the question of the origin of evil in the world and are perplexed over the temptations, schisms and fallings away which they encounter in the Church Herself. Where should one look to find the sources of Church temptations? What is their cause? Finally, who inspires them? We shall receive the answers to these and other closely related questions in the parable of the wheat and the tares. Here is how the Evangelist Matthew sets forth this parable:



The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn (Matthew 13:24-30).


Having told this parable, Christ explains to the Apostles and to us that the sower of the good seed is the Son of Man, that is, He Himself; His enemy is the devil, the sower of the tares; the field is the world, throughout which His universal Church extends; the good seed are the sons of the Kingdom, the children of the Church, in whom the grace­filled seed of the word of God has taken root, penetrated the heart, and made them God's wheat, ready for gathering into the heavenly barn, that is, for the kingdom of God; the tares are the sons of the evil one, that is, every false teacher and tempter through whom Satan does his evil work.



The Fathers of the Church teach that the devil counteracts Christ in everything. "After the prophets," says John Chrysostom, " false prophets appear; after the Apostles, false apostles; after Christ, Antichrist will appear." Christ calls men to the saving truth, whereas the devil, through his servants, i.e., the false teachers and tempters, sows ruinous falsehood and errors in the minds of men, and in their hearts sows various vices, embellishing all this with similitudes of truth and goodness. For this reason, Christ calls such men tares, who resemble the wheat in external appearance. "Until the devil sees what to counterfeit," writes Saint John Chrysostom, "he does not begin anything and even does not know how to set to work. Therefore even now, when he has perceived that he can no longer carry off, or choke, or scorch that which has been sown and has taken root, he invents a different kind of deception, namely ­ he sows his own seed."



The devil sows tares, says the Lord, while men sleep. In other words, the devil sows his tares secretly, unnoticeably, when the guards appointed to look after the field, that is, the pastors of the Church, keep watch inadequately, and when the faithful themselves live carelessly as well and listen too credulously to imposters and false teachers. About this, Metropolitan Philaret of Moscow writes thus: "Men sleep spiritually when they carelessly close the eyes of their mind and do not wish to gaze at the light of evangelical truth, and when, like those who dream during sleep, they do not control their thoughts and do not bridle their desires. They sleep, and in the darkness of forgetfulness of God and His law he steals in and sows his tares." Christ, of course, knows of this, and therefore He calls His followers to be spiritually awake, to be constantly on watch. Let us turn again to John Chrysostom: "But how, sayest thou, is it possible to remain without sleep. It is not possible without natural sleep, but without moral sleep it is possible. Wherefore, Paul also said: 'Watch ye, stand fast in the faith' (I Corinthians 16:13). In the following words of the parable when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also, the Lord describes with exactness the behavior of heretics: At first they conceal themselves; but when someone enters into conversation with them, then they pour out their venom. Behold," continues Saint John, "the devil's malice. He did not sow before, because there was nothing to destroy. But when everything is already sown, he too sows, in order to ruin that which cost the husbandman many labors. Such is the powerful enmity that the devil has displayed against Christ in everything!"



The householder sowed good fruit, but by night the enemy sowed tares there. When the first shoots appeared, he called the workers and showed them that tares are growing together with the wheat. On seeing the problem in the field, the servants asked their lord: "How could this be? After all, didst thou not sow good seed?" The servants of the householder offer to pull up the tares, so that only the useful wheat would grow. The householder decisively rejected their proposal, explaining that pulling up the tares might harm the wheat, because the tares are very similar to the wheat. One might mix them up and together with the tares pull up an ear of wheat, since the tares and wheat grow together, side by side. Their roots are intertwined, and it might turn out that by uprooting the tares, you will harm the roots of an ear of wheat, and it will perish.



This detail in the parable of the wheat and the tares is extremely important and topical. In the world, we see many iniquities and diverse scandals. And not only in the outside world, but also in the inner enclosure of the Church there is much that is far from well. Often, at the sight of the outrageous behavior of evil, immoral men, people say: O Lord! Why dost Thou not now chastise the evil? Why dost Thou give them the opportunity to make use of all the good things of the world? Why do they squeeze and oppress the good? To all these questions Christ answers in the parable: "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest, i.e., the day of the dread judgment, I will say to the reapers, My angels: Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them (Matthew 13:30); and they shall gather out …them that do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (verses 41-42). But gather the wheat into my barn (verse 30). Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father (verse 43).



Many children of the Church, imagining that they are zealous for the truth and for the purity of the Church, call for the tares to be uprooted. If one starts zealously to destroy every evil within the Church, one might indiscriminately pull out an ear of wheat instead of tares, and harm oneself. The Lord decisively forbids such a means of struggling with evil, because no one except God, Who alone is the Knower of hearts, is able to distinguish the hypocrite from the righteous man without error. Moreover, many sinners may yet change, repent and become righteous. Blessed Augustine says in this regard: "Many are correcting themselves, like Peter; many are forborne, like Judas; many will not be exposed until the coming of the Lord, Who will illumine that which is concealed in darkness and will disclose the thoughts of the heart."



Indeed, if we turn to the lives of the saints, we shall find many righteous who had experienced falls during the course of their life. At the moment of their fall, one might take them for tares. The Fathers teach that the presence of temptations in the world and the deeds of evil men purify the soul and help it to see more clearly it's weaknesses, to feel more deeply its guilt, and little by little to weaken the power of sin in itself. Gold is purified of dross by fire. The mixing of both good and evil men in the world furnishes the good with thousands of occasions to be perfected in good, to acquire patience, meekness, humility, gentleness, love. The life of the righteous on the earth is closely tied with the life of sinners, and with the bonds of kinship, and with the similarity of dispositions in the soul, and with outward circumstances, so that a jolt in the lot of some does not pass by without a jolt in the life of others. For example, an unworthy father, drunkard or profligate might carefully raise his pious children; the well-being of honest workers might be found in the hands of an avaricious and crude proprietor; an unbelieving ruler might prove to be a wise and beneficial lawgiver for his citizens. If the Lord God would punish all sinners indiscriminately, then the whole order of life on earth would be upset.



Moreover, Christ does not want the tares to be destroyed that are found alongside the wheat in the enclosure of the Church because he desires to teach us patience and to show sinners His loving kindness. Saint John Chrysostom says that this does not mean that the Lord forbids us to stop false teachers. It is necessary to struggle with them, but to struggle using worthy, evangelical methods. But in no case is it permissible to resort to force in this struggle, as very regrettably took place sometimes in Church history. The Holy Fathers forewarn against excessive zeal, saying: "Zeal that wants to vanquish every evil is itself a great evil," because it can bring about much harm. The conscience of a Christian must not burn with that evil that he sees. He is called to curb the evil in himself.



Concerning the struggle with evil, Metropolitan Philaret (Voznesenskij) says well: "The Lord said: I say unto you, That ye resist not evil. Essentially, the Russian and Slavonic texts do not coincide here. 'Evil' is not evil as such, but the evil person. In Russian this reads: "I say unto you: do not resist an evil [person]!' And that is all. [Translator's note: This same translation difficulty is also found in the Authorized (King James) Version of the English Bible. In the New King James Version this passage (Matthew 5:39) is translated: "But I tell you not to resist an evil person."] If you want to struggle with evil, then do not address yourself directly to the man who does evil, but to the evil that he causes. And do not try to pull this person out of the enclosure of the Church, as the servants wanted to pull out the tares; but rather try to convince him, try to explain to him the incorrectness of his notions. As Father John of Kronstadt said: "Sinful they are, but love the sinners and pity them." Unreasonable zeal strives to destroy everything that causes evil. Concerning it, the Apostle Paul said that this zeal is not according to knowledge. This zeal can itself prove to be a great evil, because it can cause much harm and confusion and temptation in the midst of the Church."



Christ says: "Let both grow together until the harvest," and the harvest is the end of the age. Blessed Augustine explains: "And so the Church until the end of the age will combine within Herself the good and the evil, without harm to the good. If it turns out that there are tares in the Church, this does not hinder our faith and love; upon observing tares in the Church, we should not fall away from Her. We ourselves must only try to be wheat, so that when the wheat will be gathered into the barns of the Lord, Theophilactus, the Bishop of Bulgaria, remarks in this connection: "If Matthew (who before his conversion was a tax collector hated by his fellow countrymen ­ V.P.) would have been wrenched from this life when he was numbered among the tares, then together with him the wheat of his word, which would subsequently sprout up from him, would have perished too. In precisely the same way, both Paul and the thief, when they were tares, were not annihilated so that subsequently their virtue would spring up."



Christ does not want the death of sinners, but desires that they come unto the knowledge of the truth and be saved (I Timothy 2:4). In the warmth of His goodness and in the enlivening rays of His love he wishes to soften the hardness of their hearts and arouse in them a new life (II Corinthians 5:17). He sets forth the piety of His chosen as an example for them, as a denunciation of their sinful life. Let us recall the conversion of the Saul, the persecutor of Christians. But was Saul the only one to become a Paul? How many pagans were turned into fiery confessors of the faith upon seeing the selflessness and firmness of the martyrs. And this happened not only in antiquity. In the twentieth century as well, how many people were inspired by the example of steadfastness of the new­martyrs and confessors of Russia!



The Holy Fathers liken the Church of Christ to Noah's ark, wherein there were clean and unclean animals together. Again, the Church is like a net in which various creeping things are also drawn in together with the fish. Various people ­ both sinners and righteous ­ make up the Church, the Body of Christ. There are in Her people who have attained the height of spiritual perfection, and there are spiritual babes. It is necessary to take care of the beginners and not to tempt and repel them as weak members of the Church through "zeal not according to knowledge."

reply to post by IAMIAM


In regards to the book The Q. it is the early years of Jesus and the years he was teaching. You probably know it as the Apocrypha. Sorry to go off subject here..

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
You could just give us the short form. I mean, I could also show that the teachings of Jesus as depicted in the four Gospels are illogical, unintelligible, undeniably false on many counts.

Jesus is against the taking of oaths (Matthew 5:34-37), which I find somewhat illogical in a lawful society.

Show me a lawful society and I will show you a society safe to take an oath in, but then an oath would be unnecessary.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Jesus puts out the biggest lie in the whole of the Bible in Matthew 7:7-8, saying:

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Have you tried asking? Are you genuinely seeking?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
In Matthew 10:1 Jesus links illness to demonic and evil spirits in the body and gives his disciples authority to cast them out...this has caused the death of quite a few people in exorcisms and was the cause of suppression of medical science for centuries.

The Bible does not elaborate on how Christ taught his disciples to heal. It only states that he gave them the power to do so. We can only speculate on how the disciples healed, thus it is not a lesson of Christ that we can elaborate on. This is also not a lesson of Christ, but rather an account of him second hand.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
These are just a few examples from the first Gospel (well, publishing order wise).

When I am referring to the lessons of Christ, I am referring to the parables, the direct lessons spoken by Christ to the masses. Many things have been attributed to Christ in his time, none of which can be verified. What we can look at is what he taught and see if it makes any logical sense. That is the purpose of this discussion.

With Love,

Your Brother

Jesus stated he will return with a sword and turn brother against brother, sister against sister, friend against friend until they acknowledge eachother in the spiritual term in which they should treat eachother with love, respect, faith, hope and support! This is the clensing of sin within all religions and cultures. The sooner all humans are combined for the common interest of eachother, no matter what race, culture or religion we can move forward as one with the key internal positive power inside us all!

The bible has the right meaning but the interpretation has been taken out of context. Look at your surroundings and use common sense. Ask questions like money was formed, What common element and system do all living things on earth operate under. Understand the meaning of numbers and what they produce for us all as they are our universal language which all cultures understand.

I can provide you with these answers but all citizens must understand this for themself! Then, you will get the true meaning of spirituallity. Reading certain texts in the bible is exactly how the truth has been hidden for thousands of years! It is in the Bible but the wrong interpretation has been given on occassions! It is a book of knowledge and prediction.

I am the light which shines bright, look for it with all your might as this will come with a fight but in the end it is right!

Jesus was positive of water knowing the negative of life of fire which burns us all physically and emotionally. Why do you think Christians use water to Christen a person. It represents the life giving element of water here on Earth.

Christ means annointed, he who has touched the hand to release the information humans require to progress in the future with a sence of love and respect for evreything given and obtained in life and death.

Originally posted by MysteriousEyes1
In regards to the book The Q. it is the early years of Jesus and the years he was teaching. You probably know it as the Apocrypha. Sorry to go off subject here..

Well now, that is certainly a bird of a different color, compared to the Quran that is.

No, I haven't read the Apocrypha as yet. I do not really see the need to at the moment. Once you have learned to love this existence, truly love it for the wonderful creation that it is, and learned to love every man and woman as if they were the very embodiment of perfection, there isn't really any book that you will find satisfactory to expound these truths. We are more magnificent than words can ever describe.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
You could just give us the short form. I mean, I could also show that the teachings of Jesus as depicted in the four Gospels are illogical, unintelligible, undeniably false on many counts.

Jesus is against the taking of oaths (Matthew 5:34-37), which I find somewhat illogical in a lawful society.

Show me a lawful society and I will show you a society safe to take an oath in, but then an oath would be unnecessary.

Oath of office. An oath taken against perjury. An oath taken on an exchange of goods and services (a contract). I can give you all sorts of necessary oaths in modern society.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Jesus puts out the biggest lie in the whole of the Bible in Matthew 7:7-8, saying:

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Have you tried asking? Are you genuinely seeking?

I have asked repeatedly for the past 6 or so years in a genuine manner. I am seeking. I've always been seeking.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
In Matthew 10:1 Jesus links illness to demonic and evil spirits in the body and gives his disciples authority to cast them out...this has caused the death of quite a few people in exorcisms and was the cause of suppression of medical science for centuries.

The Bible does not elaborate on how Christ taught his disciples to heal. It only states that he gave them the power to do so. We can only speculate on how the disciples healed, thus it is not a lesson of Christ that we can elaborate on. This is also not a lesson of Christ, but rather an account of him second hand.

Jesus clearly equates faith to well being, making clear that illness has supernatural causes. Also from Matthew:

9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
These are just a few examples from the first Gospel (well, publishing order wise).

When I am referring to the lessons of Christ, I am referring to the parables, the direct lessons spoken by Christ to the masses.

But his lessons were more than just parables. And please show me two parables that are logical. There are quite a few of them, but it shouldn't be too hard if you take them two at a time. Each one is quite short.

Many things have been attributed to Christ in his time, none of which can be verified. What we can look at is what he taught and see if it makes any logical sense.

You just contradicted yourself here. We cannot know what he taught...so we can look at what he taught...

That is the purpose of this discussion.

So we look at what he taught...even though we can't know exactly what he taught...and then we only look at those things he taught in the form of parables.

So no "He who is without sin cast the first stone"? I don't like that teaching, it gets rid of all forms of secular justice if applied literally.

reply to post by MysteriousEyes1


Q and the Apocrypha are separate books. Q is a hypothetical book from which both Matthew and Luke source. It is not verified and there are quite a few arguments against the existence of Q.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Generalities are not the purpose of this thread my friend. Would you deny that Mother Theresa was Christ like in her devotion to mankind?

Yes, sadly.
Don't fall for the hype; check things out for yourself.
Mother Theresa was nothing like the legend built up around her.

For one thing, she cared nothing for the care or comfort of the people her organisation looked after.
She treated those who worked with her abominably.
She raised vast amounts of money to care for the poor, but spent most of it on building nunneries to create her own order.

Just search the net for a while and you'll see what I'm talking about.


I'm not saying this to knock the possibility of a person being Christ-like. I know a Catholic Priest who is.
Of course he's been in a perpetual struggle with the church for years to continue caring for the poor. The Catholic hierarchy does not approve of too much charity, and they moved him to a parish with no manse when they found he was inviting the homeless in and sleeping on the floor so another homeless person could have a bed for the night.

Greetings IAMIAM,


My question is not to denigrate but to edify and in this, if you will, could you explain if Jesus of Nazareth actually raised Lazarus from the dead or if this is a symbolism which contains a deeper truth? I truthfully do not believe it. In fact, if such an event occurred then i can not possibly see how Christ was not recognized for who he claimed to represent...


Thank you.

Jhn 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Jhn 11:17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he had [lain] in the grave four days already.hn 11:38 ¶ Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.


Jhn 11:39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been [dead] four days.


Jhn 11:40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?


Jhn 11:41 Then they took away the stone [from the place] where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up [his] eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.


Jhn 11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said [it], that they may believe that thou hast sent me.


Jhn 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.


Jhn 11:44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go

Matthew 10:34 - "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword." - Jesus

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Is there a sect who adheres to Christs teachings? No.

Yes. There is. They are called Ebionim

There goes that theory

By the way, brother, where is the conspiracy in your thread? I see only theology. Care to explain?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Oath of office. An oath taken against perjury. An oath taken on an exchange of goods and services (a contract). I can give you all sorts of necessary oaths in modern society.

The oaths you mention are unnecessary. They only serve to give a false sense of obligation to those who witness the oath taking. Even if the person taking the oath intends to comply with their oath, those who witness the oath and the actions of the oath taker often feel the oath was violated even if the oath taker conformed to the oath in their own mind. Thus, do not take oaths. Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I have asked repeatedly for the past 6 or so years in a genuine manner. I am seeking. I've always been seeking.

I have seen your posts my friend, all through this forum. Every day you are wiser than the last. You do not give yourself credit for how far you have come. Don't think I will judge you or anyone else for that matter, by what answers you receive. You know I do not limit my understanding any more than you do. So, let me cut to the chase with you.

Christs primary teaching was to love one another. To love each other equally, with no favortism between us.

Now logically, is there any other way a world of 6 billion plus people can live together in peace and harmony?

I haven't found any other way. The only logical way is for us to love one another as absolute equals without judgement over each others free will. We must work for a higher purpose than ourselves other wise there is no love. Christ never taught nuclear physics, thermo dynamics, advanced farming, etc. These things were not his truth. He knew others would find those truths. His truth was how to unite us to work together.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Jesus clearly equates faith to well being, making clear that illness has supernatural causes. Also from Matthew:

9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Again, nothing is said here as to how it was done. There aren't step by step instructions to heal in these teachings. However, I do have faith that if I go to the Hospital, I will find a good Brother or Sister there who will heal me. I will put my trust in God that he created them with the desire to pursue this knowledge and has endowed them with the gifts that will make me well.

Science is starting to understand the importance of healing the spirit as well as the body. We just aren't there all the way yet.

Religion should not suppress science, nor should science suppress faith. There is no reason for the two to not work together. It is arrogance to assume that one has the mind to unravel the mysteries of this existence by their own doing. Where does the thought come from that the thinker thinks?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
But his lessons were more than just parables. And please show me two parables that are logical. There are quite a few of them, but it shouldn't be too hard if you take them two at a time. Each one is quite short.

Fair enough my friend.

Luke 5:37,38 No one puts new wine into old wineskins, or else the new wine will burst the skins, and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed. But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved. No man having drunk old wine immediately desires new, for he says, ‘The old is better.’"

This is logical. Here Christ is describing how new ideas replace old. It is logical. New ideas are not easily accepted by those used to thinking the old ways. It is the logical progression of the human consciousness. Alchemy gave way to chemistry. Astrology gave way to Astronomy.

The same here:

Luke 5:36 He also told a parable to them. "No one puts a piece from a new garment on an old garment, or else he will tear the new, and also the piece from the new will not match the old."

Then:

Matt 13:44 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field."

Oh this is a good one! What is the Kingdom of Heaven but an existence of equality, peace, prosperity, and love. Could you imagine such a place? I did, I see us as humanity on the cusp of this age. It is the only logical state for Man to exist. Any other way only leads to iniquity, sorrow, hate, and violence. Having seen such a state of Man, the only logical way to bring it about is by living it yourself.

Ok, that's a few for you.

Matt 13:47-50 "Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a dragnet, that was cast into the sea, and gathered some fish of every kind, which, when it was filled, they drew up on the beach. They sat down, and gathered the good into containers, but the bad they threw away. So will it be in the end of the world. The angels will come forth, and separate the wicked from among the righteous, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth."

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
You just contradicted yourself here. We cannot know what he taught...so we can look at what he taught...

There was no contradiction my friend. We can look at what he taught and find truth, but we cannot look at what he did not teach, but only was eluded to and learn truth. You mentioned the bible states he drove out demons, which is true, but the bible does not elaborate on HOW he drove them out, so we have no way of knowing whether this is true or false. Those things which only serve to embellish the tale, I do not triffle with, I look at the what is clearly given and defined.

This is just my view though my friend. There are plenty of believers and disbelievers who will disagree with this method.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
So we look at what he taught...even though we can't know exactly what he taught...and then we only look at those things he taught in the form of parables.

There are those things that Christ taught, there are those things which Christ did, and there are things which others claimed Christ did. I worry only about what he taught.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
So no "He who is without sin cast the first stone"? I don't like that teaching, it gets rid of all forms of secular justice if applied literally.

Is it not logical?

How can you judge someone when you do wrongs against others yourself? Do you believe secular justice is just? It is NOT.

We live in an unjust world. We have created this unjust world by our systems of iniquities. We judge a man for stealing when we have created a world where he has to steal to survive. We judge a man for murder when we have created a world that does not value life. We judge a woman for adultery when our society does not help you love flourish. Where is the justice you speak of my friend?

I do not see any sinners. I see a world where each is doing what they have been taught to do to survive. Survival is the first basic instinct. We are living for ourselves and not for each other.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by havok


Exactly. It's a story book of morals.

Originally posted by momoney

Originally posted by IAMIAM
Is there a sect who adheres to Christs teachings? No.

Yes. There is. They are called Ebionim

There goes that theory

By the way, brother, where is the conspiracy in your thread? I see only theology. Care to explain?

Thanks for sharing the knowledge my friend. I'll have to look into them a bit further!

As to the conspiracy, well I couldn't decide where this fit best. It was a stab in the dark to put it here.

If it is in the wrong section, oops.



With Love,

Your Brother