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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Over140
your pictures are interesting. I like the 3rd one. Here are your choices as I see them.
1, some entity is spraying something unknown on you all day, every day, for unknown reasons, and that entity is also spraying the family of every congressman, senator, mayor, and city engineer.
or...
2. Con trails form in the upper atmosphere much more in winter time and much more in high airplane traffic areas during winter time.
Now, given those two choices, which do you think is more likely?
Ask any ranger or airborne soldier if it worked ALL the time. He may limp over to you and smack you.
Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by GhostLancer
the all day every day thing comes from the pictures of con trail that is purported as chemtrails. Have you seen them? Perhaps a quick "search" might bring this into perspective for you.
I think you may not have researched my problem quite enough. It's not that I believe that nothing has ever been sprayed on an unsuspecting populace. It's that every fluffy line in the sky is a chemtrail. And that any government spraying would even be seen as a chemtrail.
I go back to a very basic argument that spraying "bad juice" at 35,000 feet would be a complete waste of bad juice since it's landfall would be impossible to calculate. Hell, when I worked on C-130's we had a device called a DVS. A Doppler Velocity Sensor. It's job was to calculate wind drift in order to drop troops at the right time. It worked most of the time. Ask any ranger or airborne soldier if it worked ALL the time. He may limp over to you and smack you. Point being, If we cannot calculate wind drift of a 200 pound item from 1000 feet, how on God's green earth are we going to calculate microscopic particles at 35,000 feet? The quick answer is, we aren't.
Any spraying to put "bad juice" on people was done at a very low altitude and way below any contrail forming weather. So that entire argument is a straw man argument.
Geo-engineering is an idea. As of right now, it's just as real as my Bigfoot fences.
Aerial cloud seeding is the process of delivering a seeding agent by aircraft - either at the cloud base or cloud top. Top seeding allows for direct injection of the seeding agent into the supercooled cloud top. Base seeding is the release of the seeding agent in the updraft of a cloud base.
Weather Modification, Inc., uses several models of aircraft in our own operations, although we can adapt our equipment to virtually any type of aircraft for specific customer needs. Weather Modification, Inc., has the following aircraft types in service and available at this time...If you operate your own aviation fleet, we can provide custom-modified aircraft to match your specific mission requirements - or we can modify your existing aircraft to perform the operations required.
Antigua Antigua Cloud Seeding Project Argentina Province of Mendoza Ministry of Economy Australia Queensland Environmental Protection Agency Burkina Faso Program SAAGA Canada Alberta Hail Suppression Project British Colombia Ministry of Forest British Columbia Hydro and Power Authority Saskatchewan National Hydrology Research Agency Greece Greek National Hail Suppression Program (ELGA) Hellenic Navy Supply Center India Andhra Pradesh Rainfall Enhancement Project Prakalpa Varsha - Maharashtra Rainfall Enhancement Project Project Varuna - Karnataka Rainfall Enhancement Project Indonesia BPPT Weather Modification Program Jordan Arab Automated Systems Heshamite Kingdom of Jordan Mali Programme Sanji - Mali Mexico Precipitation for Augmentation of Rain in Coahuila (PARC) Morocco Programme Al-Ghait Saudi Arabia Program for Cloud Physics Research and Rain Enhancement in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia World Meteorological Organization in cooperation with SAU/WMO/FIT Rain Enhancement Project Spain Canary Islands - AIRAO Incorporated Thailand Bureau of Royal Rainmaking and Agricultural Aviation (BRRAA) Turkey ISKI Rain Enhancement Program Petkim Petrokimya Holding, A.S. Rain Enhancement Program United Arab Emirates U.A.E. Rain Enhancement Program U.A.E. Rainfall Enhancement and Air Chemistry Studies - DWRS United States Aeromet, Inc. (L-3 Communications) - U.S Department of Defense BAMEX - Bow Echo and Mesoscale Convective Vortex Experiment CALIPSO - CloudSat Validation Experiment Delaware Department of Agriculture Cloud Seeding Program Edwards Aquifer Authority Federal Aviation Administration - Great Lakes Division Gratiot Weather Modification Project Illinois Weather Modification Projects National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - National Hurricane Center Naval Surface Warfare Center Nevada State Cloud Seeding Program New Mexico BLAST (Burst Light and Stratus Transmission) Project North Dakota Cloud Modification Project (NDCMP) North Dakota Thunderstorm Project - North Dakota Atmospheric Resource Board North Dakota Tracer Experiment - North Dakota Atmospheric Resource Board Northeast Sampling Program - Sonoma Technology, Inc. NSF/NCAR ICE-L Field Campaign Oklahoma Weather Modification Project (OWMP) Panhandle Groundwater Conservation District Rainfall Enhancement Program Santa Barbara County Water Agency Sonoma Technology, Inc. Stanislaus Weather Modification Program State of South Dakota - Department of Natural Resources Division of Weather Modification Texas Central High Plains Rainfall Enhancement Program Texas Experiment in Augmenting Rainfall through Cloud Seeding (TEXARC) Texas Weather Modification Program The University of North Dakota - US Environmental Protection Agency University of Arizona - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Upper American River Cloud Seeding Project Upper Payette River Basin Cloud Seeding Program Upper Tuolumne River Weather Modification Program Utah Division of Water Resources Utah Division of Water Resources West Central Texas Council of Governments Rainfall Enhancement Program Western Dakota Water Development District - Black Hills Council of Local Government Wyoming Weather Modification Pilot Program
Translation: seeding agent=chemicals=chemtrails
Originally posted by network dude
I have been amazed at the varying answers I get when asking about chemtrails. These people cannot agree on anything. I guess since science seems to be on the side of sanity and that the lines in the sky are called contrails, it stands to reason that the story might change a bit from person to person.
For those who don't know about this myth, here is how it goes: If a line left behind a plane lasts for longer than 20 minutes, it's a chemtrail. It if dissipates before the 20 minute mark, it's a contrail.
But when faced with facts about weather conditions, this theory falls apart. Once that is gone, exactly what is left of this theory?
I have asked countless numbers of people who believe in this myth to share their views with me. Some say that it happens in every major city in the world. I have even been told of the exact year this phenomenon started. Unfortunately, that date changes from person to person. By 10-15 years. The amount of spraying varies from almost every day in every major city, to only sometimes.
What do they do? That seems to be the million dollar question. nobody can pinpoint any affects. Do they cause mass illness? nope, not that anyone can verify. Do they kill people? nope, not that anyone can verify. Are they to combat global warming? well, I think we should first agree if global warming is man made, or a natural cycle before we try to adjust mother nature. Is that the reason they exist? some might say so. some may not.
There is no uniformity with this conspiracy. Nobody seems to be able to agree on anything other then someone must be hiding something. When I look up the word paranoid, it's definition sounds eerily familiar.
Originally posted by Byteman
Your OP doesn't even really state any evidence one way or another about Chemtrail vs Persistent Contrail, it is virtually 100% commentary on Chemtrail researchers themselves.
Why did you start a topic with the purpose of directly insulting Chemtrail researchers with crude stereotypes?
Since you're so adamantly sure that science has debunked Chemtrails, then you can go ahead and explain why in my area...only KC-135's leave them.
You can also explain how these contrails persist in dry, hot (relatively) cloudless Summer skies.
BTW, in my area they fly under the jetstream to preserve fuel. Since you're so familiar with the science that debunks Chemtrail, then you shouldn't need any of this explained.
Let the OP answer this for himself please. He's so up on the science, then he can demonstrate his level of knowledge concerning the matter.
This is the first time I've ever seen this specific time claim.
I think you either made this up (lie), or you are taking something a single person, or a small group said, and you are trying to sell it as a "myth" that Chemtrail researchers live by. (stereotype)
Either way, it paints you in a negative light. Neither of these attributes contribute positively to science.
First it's a "myth", now it's a "theory". What's next? You gonna claim it's Chemtrail Gospel, that all Chemtrail researchers follow without fail? That would be in keeping with your demonstrated willingness to stereotype and/or lie about what Chemtrail researchers really believe. The funny thing is, you say "these people" can't agree with each other, but we can all somehow agree to this myth you fabricated.
BTW, how does this myth/theory that you invented, or are blowing out proportion, get proven wrong?
We just supposed to take your word for it?
Why don't you share the exact science that proves it wrong?
Oh, what a tangled web we weave.
What myth? Your made up time table fantasy?
I've been studying the matter since the early-90's. Again, I've NEVER seen anyone get so specific as to list the time table you are dishonestly attributing to Chemtrail researchers at large.
People have collected samples of the stuff that has made it to the ground, and had it analyzed. Typically there will be extremely high amounts of Barium and Aluminum.
You are simply not in a position to certify what has been verified or not.
There is no uniformity regarding the conditions for Persistent CONtrails. Ask two meteorologists why a contrail persist, you will get two different answers. Just like asking any two humans about anything at all.
Oh look, you know how to stereotypically imply that all Chemtrail researchers are paranoid.
Do you also think that all Asians are good at math, and all Blacks are good at sports?
As in: we can retrofit any type of plane we want (despite the debunkers saying that these things don't exist.) The in service part indicates that it is an active program. Here's a list of active projects:
Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by GhostLancer
the all day every day thing comes from the pictures of con trail that is purported as chemtrails. Have you seen them? Perhaps a quick "search" might bring this into perspective for you.
Originally posted by network dude
I think you may not have researched my problem quite enough.
Originally posted by network dude
It's not that I believe that nothing has ever been sprayed on an unsuspecting populace. It's that every fluffy line in the sky is a chemtrail. And that any government spraying would even be seen as a chemtrail.
Originally posted by network dude
I go back to a very basic argument that spraying "bad juice" at 35,000 feet would be a complete waste of bad juice since it's landfall would be impossible to calculate. Hell, when I worked on C-130's we had a device called a DVS. A Doppler Velocity Sensor. It's job was to calculate wind drift in order to drop troops at the right time. It worked most of the time. Ask any ranger or airborne soldier if it worked ALL the time. He may limp over to you and smack you. Point being, If we cannot calculate wind drift of a 200 pound item from 1000 feet, how on God's green earth are we going to calculate microscopic particles at 35,000 feet? The quick answer is, we aren't.
Originally posted by network dude
Any spraying to put "bad juice" on people was done at a very low altitude and way below any contrail forming weather. So that entire argument is a straw man argument.
Originally posted by network dude
Geo-engineering is an idea. As of right now, it's just as real as my Bigfoot fences.
Again, "every fluffy line is the sky is a chemtrail..." Sure, there are some folks out there who believe that every fluffy line might be a chemtrail, but they are not indicative of the whole. That just seems to be the impression that the OP and perhaps some others are getting. However, that is not the case. VALID arguments for chemtrails do not necessarily suggest the 24/7 365 spraying.
So, okay, granted, cloud seeding in itself isn't proof of some chemtrail conspiracy, but it at least proves that the technology to spray something in the air at high altitude other than condensation trails from jets exists and is being used in many countries around the world.
Originally posted by network dude
Sorry you didn't get a chance to digest the information before your knee jerked. If you had actually read the OP instead of responded to specific points, you would understand exactly what I was trying to say. That the whole "chemtrail" theory is so confusing because of the multiple reasonings and "proofs" that seem to come into play that any reasonable person would simply call you paranoid and walk away laughing. But lets continue with your tirade.
Originally posted by network dude
You must be an amazing person. I feel very safe in saying that you should hide for fear of being abducted by our military to be used as a spotter of all things airborne. If you can spot a KC-135 as opposed to a DC-9 or a KC-10 at altitude, you are one of a select few with perfect eyesight. Way past 20/20. Do you do this without binoculars? Plane old eyesight? Just friggin WOW! Amazing to say the least.
I hate to keep breaking this up, but your assertions make it so relevant, that I have to. Are you aware that the temperature and humidity at 20-30K feet is just a tiny bit different than at ground level? If not, I suggest a hot air balloon ride in July wearing only shorts and a t-shirt. Let me know how that goes.
Originally posted by network dude At what altitude is the jet stream at this moment? How about three weeks ago? Your weather skills are just as sharp as your eyeballs are.
Originally posted by network dude Oh, thanks for letting me speak directly to you. It means the world to me.
Originally posted by network dude Try using the search function at the upper right of the screen. Type "chemtrails" and see what you fan find about the 20 minute barrier. I am willing to concede whatever time frame you feel is significant with regards to contrails being misidentified as chemtrails.
Originally posted by network dude I chose to let science contribute and I just post the "science" part. If it puts me in a bad light, I can take it.
Originally posted by network dude
I haven't invented the myth of chemtrails. I am only here so discuss why it's a myth. You can try to bring the science that proves your side into this discussion at any time. I'll be right here.
Originally posted by network dude
OK, fair enough. Please describe to me how anyone can identify a chemtrail by sight. again, I'll be right here.
Originally posted by network dude
and that is great. Fantastic in fact. I love samples. Are you sure they came from aircraft and not a coal fired power plant? Oh, didn't think so. Nevermind.
Originally posted by network dude
In this case, you are 100% correct. But then again, are you?
Originally posted by network dude
OK, time to see how good you are. I know of one meteorologist on this very site. You bring me any two verifiable meteorologists who will have different answers as to why contrails might persist. Any two. (verifiable)
Originally posted by network dude
the race card. really? so I guess you are out of arguments huh?
Who says only KC-135s are leaving trails? Do you actually have proof of this...
And if you live within 20 miles of a base with tankers, they will not be making trails near you, since they would not be high enough yet..
Originally posted by Byteman
Why are only KC-135's leaving these trails?
Originally posted by firepilot
Again, "every fluffy line is the sky is a chemtrail..." Sure, there are some folks out there who believe that every fluffy line might be a chemtrail, but they are not indicative of the whole. That just seems to be the impression that the OP and perhaps some others are getting. However, that is not the case. VALID arguments for chemtrails do not necessarily suggest the 24/7 365 spraying.
Thats actually exactly what most every chemtrail site and chemtrail youtube video says exactly, that anything other than a short lasting skinny contrail, is a chemtrail. Illustrating yet again, every chemtrailer has their own beliefs...
Originally posted by firepilot
And you may check into how many airplanes NOAA has too, it sure is not very many at all.
Originally posted by firepilot
I have even flown on meteorological research projects myself, and thats not evidence of chemtrails either