War Is Always Pointless

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Ecological disasters can be averted by strong private property rights.

No one is going to pollute their own land, and if people are held accountable for polluting the land of others, nothing else needs to be done.

Private "loser pays" civil courts could preform this function quite well without any State at all.

The oil spill disasters have all been a result of NO property rights, and then the government stepped into limit the liability of the oil companies against the coastal property owners.

If the oceans were treated like land in terms of property rights, it is highly unlikely this disaster would have occurred.

As long as there is a belief in "Private Property" there will always be war. There is no private property. What you come into this world with, is what you leave with. The time in between you are sharing this planet with the other residents. The resources should be shared in a way that is beneficial to all, and future generations.

Otherwise, we keep doing what we already are doing, killing each other for something we do not own.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Actually, war requires a lack of property rights.

Wars can only be fought if the State has the power to tax and conscript its citizens.

Taxation = theft

Taxation requires that property rights be destroyed in favor of State control of monetary resources.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Actually, war requires a lack of property rights.

Wars can only be fought if the State has the power to tax and conscript its citizens.

Taxation = theft

Taxation requires that property rights be destroyed in favor of State control of monetary resources.

If there are property rights, what is to stop someone from amassing a fortune and buying up all the land in a given area? Once the land is bought up in the given area, then he allows people to live there IF they pay wages "rent" to him. He takes his profits and buys more land and rents it out.

Once he has monopolised an area, he tells his renters they are going to have a great rent increase, unless of course they help him over take his neighbors land.

No property rights, share the worlds resources, improve the lives of all.

This will of course take a great philosophical shift from focusing on ones own well being and instead loving each other like a family.

I have hope.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


The markets prevent people from amassing fortunes beyond the productive services they render to society. Monopolies are ALL a function of government. A monopoly can not exist without government regulations imposing it.

Further, I highly doubt the CEO of Google has any plans on attacking Yahoo headquarters with bands of mercenaries.

Further, Yahoo could buy up its own mercenaries to defend itself if this was the case.

Arguing that rich people would wage war against others for control of land is ridiculous. Rich people use the State by proxy to do this for them.

Without the State, the rich could not wage war against the common man. They would face retribution. There are a lot more common men than rich people.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

The markets prevent people from amassing fortunes beyond the productive services they render to society.

Further, I highly doubt the CEO of Google has any plans on attacking Yahoo headquarters with bands of mercenaries.

Further, Yahoo could buy up its own mercenaries to defend itself if this was the case.

Arguing that rich people would wage war against others for control of land is ridiculous. Rich people use the State by proxy to do this for them.

Without the State, the rich could not wage war against the common man. They would face retribution. There are a lot more common men than rich people.

edit on 11-1-2011 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)

The Corporations use the state because they own the state.

Perhaps a good look at the Lincoln County War will illustrate my point.

There will never be peace as long as there is competition for survival. We either work together, or die together.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Peaceful cooperation requires strong private property rights.

Without private property, there must necessarily be violence to resolve ownership disputes.

State sanctioned war REQUIRES that private property rights be thrown in the trash bin.

It is impossible to have war if people own the fruits of their labor.

impossible.

Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

War is defined as a confrontation between two States.

What about gang wars?

edit on 11-1-2011 by Whyhi because: (no reason given)

Gang violence is a result of a lack of private property rights.

Since private citizens can not produce and sell drugs, it falls upon the nefarious elements of our society to meet the market demand.

Without government, there would be no gang violence since there would be no black markets for gangs to control and fight over.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Peaceful cooperation requires strong private property rights.

Without private property, there must necessarily be violence to resolve ownership disputes.

State sanctioned war REQUIRES that private property rights be thrown in the trash bin.

It is impossible to have war if people own the fruits of their labor.

impossible.

There are no ownership disputes if no one owns anything. It is an understanding that you are only borrowing what you possess in this life. It is not only philosophical, it is true. Where ever one goes when they depart this world, what they thought they owned remained.

Our attachment to ownership of this world is why we struggle to accumulate so much of it, and why others will kill for it.

I am not suggesting that it belongs to the state either. The state itself should be nothing more than a coordinator of labor. A job placement service if you will. The leadership nothing more than civic planners, they too being temporary. The property belongs to the future, we are just borrowing it.

Like I said, it will take a philosophical shift that will only come about through the hardships ahead.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM
There are no ownership disputes if no one owns anything.

Ok.

I'll come over to your house tomorrow and clean out your fridge.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Ok.

I'll come over to your house tomorrow and clean out your fridge.

If I had a fridge, you'd be welcome to it. My house I already let someone have who needed it more. I live on the the like minded charity of others.

Your welcome to join me for a meal any time. What I have, I will gladly share.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Ok.

I'll come over to your house tomorrow and clean out your fridge.

If I had a fridge, you'd be welcome to it. My house I already let someone have who needed it more. I live on the the like minded charity of others.

Your welcome to join me for a meal any time. What I have, I will gladly share.

With Love,

Your Brother

For some reason, I don't think 99.9999999% of people would take so kindly to my intrusion.

Private property prevents violent conflicts over resources.

The lack of private property rights is what creates conflicts and ultimately is at the root of all State wars.

Oh, by the way, I need another computer.

The one you are typing on now would suit me nicely.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
For some reason, I don't think 99.9999999% of people would take so kindly to my intrusion.

The percentage is high my friend, while I do not think it is as high as you have made it, I do not have more accurate figures to present. It wasn't always like this though. Long long ago Mankind flourished without property rights in relative peace. It was when they started laying claim to everything that wars began.

Anyway, at least you recognise that war is no good. That is a start. The rest, we will just have to agree to disagree until evidence presents itself to sway eithers mind.

Thanks for a great topic my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by mnemeth1


Dear mnemeth1

WAR is very very simple, integrated by the evil, the governors.

All the governors, are evil they always have been, they always will be.

They who want the POWER, MONEY the CONTROL.

We the white mice do not have an enemy over there, over anywhere.

Our enemy has always been our governors, it will always be that way.

Pointless? How else am I supposed to that oil from those little brown people? i tried asking but they started mouthing off about nationalization or something. Soon I'll have to declare war on those pesky seals and walruses in the Artic. All that ice is melting, so that means even more stuff to dig up! I'm sure they won't anything to say though.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by mnemeth1
For some reason, I don't think 99.9999999% of people would take so kindly to my intrusion.

The percentage is high my friend, while I do not think it is as high as you have made it, I do not have more accurate figures to present. It wasn't always like this though. Long long ago Mankind flourished without property rights in relative peace. It was when they started laying claim to everything that wars began.

Anyway, at least you recognise that war is no good. That is a start. The rest, we will just have to agree to disagree until evidence presents itself to sway eithers mind.

Thanks for a great topic my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother

Long ago, mankind lived in squalor.

It was only through the enforcement of private property rights and voluntary trade that man was able to lift himself up out of the jungles.

Even the finest royal king had to crap in a bucket.

Voluntary trade of privately owned resources saved man from a life of squalor and poverty.

Showing love to your fellow man through charity is fine and good.

Conversely, it is impossible to show true love for your fellow man if the fruits of your labor are given to him at the point of a gun.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Oh, by the way, I need another computer.

The one you are typing on now would suit me nicely.

The one I am typing on is a cheap Samsung n210 notebook. If you think it will serve your purposes better than the one you have, lets make a trade. I can fix up old computers and I am sure what ever you have will suit my need. I only use it to get on ATS.

So, wanna trade? U2U me.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Throwback
Pointless? How else am I supposed to that oil from those little brown people? i tried asking but they started mouthing off about nationalization or something. Soon I'll have to declare war on those pesky seals and walruses in the Artic. All that ice is melting, so that means even more stuff to dig up! I'm sure they won't anything to say though.

hahahah

I'm sure our puppets in Iraq are busy enforcing oil-for-dollar transactions.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Oh, by the way, I need another computer.

The one you are typing on now would suit me nicely.

The one I am typing on is a cheap Samsung n210 notebook. If you think it will serve your purposes better than the one you have, lets make a trade. I can fix up old computers and I am sure what ever you have will suit my need. I only use it to get on ATS.

So, wanna trade? U2U me.

With Love,

Your Brother

How about I just take it.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Long ago, mankind lived in squalor.

It was only through the enforcement of private property rights and voluntary trade that man was able to lift himself up out of the jungles.

Even the finest royal king had to crap in a bucket.

Voluntary trade of privately owned resources saved man from a life of squalor and poverty.

Showing love to your fellow man through charity is fine and good.

Conversely, it is impossible to show true love for your fellow man if the fruits of your labor are given to him at the point of a gun.

I am glad life has been so kind to you my friend. I assure that our Brothers and Sisters around the world still live in squalor. Ever been to Ethiopia, Somalia, Djibouti, South America? Many places we have exploited that we could rise on our pedestals and be a beacon of light to. What we didn't count on was once others saw our lifestyles, that they would want it too.

Now we see that they do. Thus, food prices are rising because they want luxuries like beef and pork in abundance. To supply all the beef and pork, you need a lot more grain and water. They would also like to drive cars. Thus, steel and other metals go up.

America became a power house because we had manufacturing, the rest of the world had cheap resources. We exploited their resources and manufactured goods. Then we sold those goods back to them at higher prices.

Then they woke up. They said, we can take our own resources and make the same product and sell it back to YOU! HAHAHA...

We bought and bought and bought as one by one our factories moved over seas.

Now, we are the ones going down, while the others come up.

So, how has this ownership helped us thus far?

Perhaps if we shared, other countries would have learned to share from us. Unfortunately, all they learned from us was to exploit and accumulate more and more.

We reap what we sow.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by mnemeth1
How about I just take it.

If you need it that bad that you are willing to take it, just say you need it, and you can have it.

It isn't going to do me any good with what is coming down the pipe. It will just be left behind soon anyway. So, if you want it, come and get it.

I will find another way to get on ATS when I need to.

With Love,

Your Brother