Jared Loughner - Lets try to understand-its NOT a Conspiracy

I have read so many theories, from hypnosis and mind control to pure insanity to satanic influence. I say lets try to learn from him rather than ourselves or others. Until he testifies as to why he chose to murder, we cannot diagnose him or sentence him. Otherwise without finding out his reasoning, our reasoning will just bring us in circles with you saying "in light of this he is not insane" and me saying "yes but insane people can do this as well", because premeditation is not an exclusive attribute of a healthy mind.

Im watching the vids now for the first time, and I think I was right when I said he was trying to send a significant message but “mucked” it up in his strange expression of things. I’ll try to explain his thoughts better for him. (You can follow how i conjured up my thoughts by watching the videos in order from first to last)

when he talks of people having their own currency, I think he is talking about people having their own creativity, our own thoughts, whatever it is that makes them an individual, and that we as “treasurers” distribute that currency. He is constantly asking to the individual to take control of himself, or to at least for the individual to realize they are only what they allow others to make themselves out to be. Im sure we have all heard of the term sheeple. This is what he is trying to get across when he mentions our illiteracy. He does not want us to follow what his version of literacy. Just that we understand we determine our level of literacy, yet, the models by which we compare and determine our literacy is not control by us, for the most part, as our world is a structure that has been constructed by higher authorities.



I think in his first video he is trying to tell us that we are all brainwashed to a certain point, depending on the person. When he said “if I had my civil rights, then this would never have happened”, that he realized like many of us here at ATS understand, that our entire reality is manipulated, that we don’t know the whole truth of anything, and that a lot of it is hidden deliberately from us. From his point of view, he may have understood this and realized that anyone withholding the truth is a manipulator of conscious reality, therein defining what he implies as being consciously asleep. We have no real choice but to live in a hypnotic state, and that even when we sleep, we don’t dream real dreams, only dreams shaped by our imagination for as much as we have witnessed reality. In other words, even our dreams are manipulated. So when he says that he and a few others and “sadly” not the rest of us can “dream”, he is hinting towards his own freedom from the invisible bondage that the elite/govt/authorities etc have created to pin down our whole freedoms. Like he says, if only he truly had his civil rights.

When he said “in a few days, you know I’m conscious dreaming”, its irony. In other words, he is breaking free from this supposed bondage, and he will do something unimaginable, the unimaginable being that which breaks the barriers imposed upon us “normal” people by the “controllers’ so to speak. He will do what we feel is wrong, but according to him, what we feel is wrong is only because our minds are being controlled, they have been preprogrammed and shaped so as not to see the significance/symbolism in his actions-that he has seen the invisible chains and broken free, and that now he is going to do something about it to prove his freedom, and at the same time to open our eyes as well.



You must remember that he is using irony in his dialogue when he refers to dreamers. You could equate his “dreamers” to anarchists, or anyone who can see beyond the mainstream and beyond what is presented to us. In actuality, the dreamers are the realists of this world, the ones who know the truth about the government, the environment, wars, disease, all those conspiracy theories that seem everyday to be less theory and more fact.

Remember the first part his talk of years? The 982,128,927,912 BCE nonsense? Well if you read his conclusion, you would have to admit that yes, he is right. If I try to think in his place, what he is trying to imply is that one thing is, or isn’t, period. Things are actually much more clear than they appear. You just have to have the clarity of thought to begin with. In that statement, where he concludes by saying “Therefore, the year previous of‘X’ is ‘X’. In other words, (trying to speak from his POV) “I see with clarity, and what I have to say is something that should be just as obvious as this riddle of years is”. So we must try to think without prejudice and only from his POV what seems obvious to him, and that year riddle was like a conditioning exercise for us who do not at the moment see like him, to now at the very least try to see like him.

By BCE having no point of beginning, unless you take it from the exact point of the creation or interpretation of time, how could ADE ever have its own point of origin? BCE and ADE would be one endless point in time. This is what I believe he is trying to say when he talks about time. He seems to understand that times limit is only produce by ones inability to interpret time itself, and that is it only because “we” have created points in time, that time exists, such as seconds and years. Otherwise if we had not created points in time, time would either never have existed or always have existed-but never realized, because it was neverending and impossible to identify in origin. Time would be endless. ADE would be (and is according to him) forever. That is until someone in some high authority decides to split time once again, yet the paradoc would continue.

When he talks about forming an 8 year old’s mind, he is explaining without the process of explanation that we “normal” people require, that all of us are capable of being formed and taught anything, for so long as it is impressed upon us enough. After this he goes on to say that “any person who is mentally capable is always able to be treasurer of their new currency”, or in other words, that if we can be impressed upon, we can also impress; that if we have the capability to think for ourselves, we can therefore share our thoughts. What we know, we are able to impart. But What do we know? Only what others know. I believe these are the sorts of questions he wants us to ask ourselves. The currency and treasurer are just a metaphors for an individuals thought and the actions, or more correctly, our potential to act within our own individuality. In other words, to create a new way of living, a new system of government, a new currency that others can also purchase with if they themselves do not have a “valuable currency” of their own. But the fact, he concludes, that we all have the ability to create out own “currency” (realities/thoughts) is something that we all should understand. We all have freedom. We have civil rights and liberties. But like he seems to suggest, those have been taken away and we don’t even know it, and now we are slaves to another entities “currency”. Im beginning to think the murders were his way of proving he was a free individual, to a certain extent. But I haven’t finished his intro video yet, and there are still 4 more. So Ill continue.



He then questions us. You’re a treasurer for a new currency, listener? You create and distribute your own currency, listener? You do not allow the government to control your grammar structure, listener? This is a rhetorical question. Because we do allow an authority to determine our grammar structure, we are therefore slaves to that authority’s currency, because we only know as much “grammar” (of reality) as the authority has taught us. Therefore, we are only issuing an old currency. Until we discover reality beyond the confines in which we are stuck, beyond what is taught to us, we will be under “control”. He is telling us to wake up.

He says all humans need sleep, including himself. But then he says he is a perpetual sleep walker, meaning he is always asleep, yet still active, unlike us, who only sleep in intervals. I don’t think he is saying he is hypnotized or anything of the sort. Here he sort of mixed up a realistic conclusion with a fantastic explanation from which he derived a secondary conclusion. Well if we are to take his ironic suggestions early that we are all asleep or unaware of reality, then he is saying that he is always aware, but saying it in riddle. Or he is living in the same dream as us, but never waking up like we do. Hm. if we go back and forth between waking up and sleep, then that means there are moments of epiphany that we each experience, but do not cling on to like him? Those moments of epiphany to us, of realization, are equivalent to dreams. And actual dreams are product of conscious dreaming, or controlled dreaming, therefore, not real dreams. And he goes on to say that he is consciously dreaming, but conscious dreaming at the moment is asleep, therefore he is also asleep. If I am to take him for his irony, that means he is actually “awake”, aware, clear…because his what he dreams is based off of current real situations. They are conscious and substantial, even reasonable (though we may beg to differ) responses to real conditions in society, that the rest of us either can't interpret or wont act upon.

He says that we will term him as a terrorist, someone politically motivated, according to his definition. And that when we call him a terrorist, we are in fact only trying undermine him, that we are presenting a farcical explanation of him in order to distort who he really is. With this is mind, we should therefore not term him as a terrorist, and we should certainly not trust a single notion presented by anyone to try and define him, unless it comes directly from him, as he subscribes to the idea that “one is only as much as another so believes”. But he is clearly warning us not judge him or accept any argument that may muddy his image. We must see beyond the fact that he is a murder, we must see beyond his political views, we must see beyond whatever else the media may try to paint him as. That does not mean we should forgive him or accept his murders, and Im not suggesting at all he did anything acceptable by killing innocent people. But for the sake of understanding this man, I believe we should follow his advice.



He is from the military. He is not religious. He says this himself. He is not or does not subscribe to any religion. Yet he was given a mini bible upon recruitment? He is trying to imply something here. Is it possible he was saying he was indoctrinated into something? Being a recruit, was he chosen to be a part of something secret, hence the Bible, or “book of conduct”, even though he did not want to be, or maybe he did? This does not necessarily mean he joined any religious sect or cult, but I believe he is trying to tell us he was introduced into something. And the tests? Why, if we are take his writings at face value, would they give a mini-bible before an army test? Can anyone in the military elaborate on this? Otherwise I can only speculate that he was in fact taken under the wing of some secret entity, or that some entity is trying to impose some sort of thought process or idea upon him and possibly the entire military as well. But he makes it clear that he has no beliefs, meaning he could have been against what they were trying to impose upon him. This could be a motive for the murders. It is possible that he was under pressure from some government entity, and that this entity is doing something that he does not agree with, and that the murders and attempted murder of the specific authorities at Tucson may have been related to this entity, and he did something so terrible in the hopes that none of us could pretend to not notice anymore, so that all of us would discover what he knew.

At this point you might be thinking, “well why didn’t he just tell us?” First off, so far from the first two vids alone I am starting to believe he had some kind of connection to the government that would have made it difficult for him to do so even if he wanted to. So he chose riddles. Yes, he is certainly strange to begin with, but that only makes the riddles more important to decipher. But lets just put our doubts aside and continue

The reference to the constitution I do not think is too hard to understand. Read the constitution to understand how our government is committing treason in numerous ways. I would have to support this. He then again calls us out on our literacy, seeming to taunt us to do something which we would normally not do, which is read the constitution.

He is trying to incite a revolution, and he is telling us that even though the laws are against us, and even though our property does not belong to us, revolution will always belong to the revolutionary. This is following in line with the Bolsheviki propaganda during the Russian Revolution, and it is true. Read “Ten Days That Shook the World”, and you will see that is trying to inspire revolution, or at least get the ball moving. The Moron just chose the worst way possible. Sadly, when I really think about it, this might have been the only way possible. He had to grab the most attention he could, otherwise he would have failed from the start. You may argue that by murdering he failed, but once again I implore you, just as he is, to see beyond the murders, and even beyond the superficial politics, and take into consideration what he is saying in his videos-what I’m trying to make sense of now. He used the sickest method to do us Americans the greatest good. He is no hero. He is a murderer. But we are not looking to give him a title. We are only seeking to discover the reasons. Please keep this in mind.

In his third vid, How to:Mind controller, he is directly stating government control over history and beliefs, or whatever authority controls the systems by which we learn it. He is saying that anyone who edits religion and beliefs until the end of the time, or in his words the “final century”, that this person is just as good as the original writer, the person who created the belief in the first place, which makes sense. He then goes on to say that he is his own writer and editor, he controls every belief and religion- he controls his own mind. He is trying to show us, even ask us that we have to have control over ours. He seems to believe that if we did, we would be thinking along the same lines as him, that being revolutionary thought. Once again, his process of thinking is a bit strange, but he is beginning to make much sense. Still, hes a damned murderer. But it is important for everyone, including the prosecutor during his trials and the judge who declares his guilt, to understand what he meant by his murders, not simply that he is a murderer, otherwise we will all would have let him down, and apparently ourselves and our country. To me, he is beginning to look like the worst patriot we ever had. But then again, he says he is not politically motivated, or was he saying that he was, but just not affiliated with any ideology other than what now appears to be a constitutionalist ideology? Its easy to see just by his connection to the tea party that this may be the case, but it seems he predicted and is warning us not to get caught in the party frenzy. I think we should take his advice.

Anyways.



He says we are all victims of fraud because what we purchase is not really ours. This is speculative, but when you think about your cars, property, assets… your just paying to be the caretaker of it all. Real estate does not belong to any private owner, we all know this much. He mentions his education is unconstitutional and cites Section 10 of the constitution of the USA. Sadly, he did mention which article, so I am thinking he meant the first since it is the only one with 10 sections:


Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 10 - Powers Prohibited of States
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.


---Im not entirely sure where he is drawing this conclusion from. He follows it up by saying that if you are receiving a grade from the college he attends (and probably every other college), that it is unconstitutional because of the Bill of Rights, and that grades which you “purchased by means of tuition” is fraudulent and unconstitutional. I suppose this last remark is taking things a bit out of context, because we pay tuition for the education and course, not the grade. In the most positive way I can think of this last remark, he puts up a good reform policy. “Pay according to your Grade”. But the most troublesome part is what he means when he says that receiving grades in college crosses the Bill of Rights. I wish he had explained further, as I can only think of so many ways to connect the dots, and I don’t want to place more words in his mouth than I already have. Therefore I would conclude that it is possible he meant for college students or anyone reading his videos for that matter to read the constitution, and read the Bill of Rights, not to discover how our college educations are unconstitutional, but so to become aware of the constitution once again and begin to compare what it states is lawful and what is our rights, and what is unlawful and treasonous, and take action?

He goes on to rant about the unconstitutionality of free education provided by the government. I believe this is because the constitution never allowed the government to do so, but also never explicitly said it could not either. It is one of those situations where a loophole was found and exploited, and he obviously does not like this. This goes as well for the police comments. He then tells us we are illiterate and do not know English grammar. Its obvious he is referring to how lawyers and politicians, and essentially we who follow the educational system they create, have misunderstood or completely and consciously manipulated the clear wording of the constitution. Once again, he reminds us that every individual has the power to create his own reality, thus subsequently implying that all are also capable to be delusioned by anothers reality. He concludes by telling us not to trust the government because the institutions it has created for us and by which it conditions us is unconstitutional, therefore invalid, and that if we follow along the path they have carved, we are unconstitutional beings. We are traitors. Obviously the conclusions he has drawn are condensed, but that does not mean he is wrong.



Finally we are at the last Video, How To: Your New Currency! (Your new mind/thoughts).
He is talking about building up your individuality. That’s obvious. He is saying that it matters not what you name it, when it came into being, or how much of it you have. He is saying that you can impose your new currency violently (as he did) or non violently. But now you have a new currency. You have a new coin that you did not have before. In other words, If I have been close to right in explaining what he was trying to say in all his vids, his thoughts through my words are now creating a new thought (currency) in you, which cannot be used in an old monetary system (thought process), which requires a new monetary system (new thought process) from which you can begin to collect more of the new currency (more information on these new thoughts) and distribute it (impose either violently or non violently), as you are the treasurer (the one in control) of your currency (your thoughts), that is IF you are literate (self reliant, creative, an individual, and not controlled by the subversive and unconstitutional methods of govt).



So people. What do you think of him now? Hes a sick murderer, but he was not insane. He had a purpose, and he was quite clear while trying to get it across. He was hypnotized, he was free. To me, he was the US’s equivalent of an Islamic freedom fighter. He martyred whatever was left of his freedom, and he tried to take others with him. I think now that yes, he used Youtube to propagate his ideas, of course. He wanted this message to get out, and he wanted to to spread like a virus. The murderes were premeditated, but controlled by someone else? That’s is just about as close to opposite as you can get. He in fact is trying to show you that you are the one who is being controlled, and that only because he was free, sleepwalking, consciously dreaming... whatever he wants to call it, that he was able to do what he did.

What I am not understanding is the alter that was found. He says he had no religious belief. He had no mainstream political view. Regardless, I care not for his beliefs. I hope you all can at the very least see the message of his actions.

Sorry just skimmed though but I'd say you're spot on about the currency meaning creativity. Makes tons of sense especially in relation to the other things he said.

edit: doesn't explain why he did what he did though..

reply to post by Nventual


If you read it all you will undertand why he did it. He was proving his freedom. He was also trying to garner attention. He wanted to send us all a message, something we could not ignore, and he had tried to explain in his videos that we should not be prejudiced by the action he took, that we must see the message he was trying to send. He not only planned out the murders, but he planned out how to counter our intial reactions to them and the media portrayal of his image. He knew we would hate him for killing innocent people, but he also knew or at least felt that he was justified and that their sacrifice was necessary in order to get the message out. That message was revolution. It was freedom from our government. This is our first real case of home-grown terrorism, or what I call extremist patriotism. I swear its a mirror image of what is occuring daily in hte mIddle east. He is fighting for his rights and his country, but sadly he is using the wrong method.

reply to post by asperetty


But he killed a 9 year old girl.

reply to post by Nventual


Once again, he used the wrong method to garner the most attention. Im not trying to say hes a hero, im trying to explain his motive with reason. Im trying to understand why, not how.

Of course he did it for attention. This is why any of us do anything. We all want recognition for something.

There's nothing to understand about this guy other than the fact that he is a cold blooded murderer who will feel the full wrath of the justice system.

Strange that, how this Jared Loughner calls Gifford dumb and unintelligent yet Jared could'nt even pass a simple psychological test to get in to the military let alone keep a job if he ever had one at all. And when life does'nt quite go his way he goes out and shoots people inlcuding a small child. Yep, real bright spark this Jared was....not!

Unfortunately it's highly probable there are others out there just like this fruit loop who will continue to go forth and destroy a whole lot of people's lives without any shame or remorse. These dangerous people have absolutely no empathy or regard for life.

It seems no one is actually reading the OP

Nice thread. Alot of typing lol. I agree pretty much with what you are saying ,except it is not a conspiracy. I was wondering into the code thing and googled PCC for the college. I came across a library of congress site with a bunch of literature and studies.
I do not think it means anything, just thought it was interesting since he uses literature and all.
Well put together.

he used the freedom and liberty many enjoy daily to create a crime which tightens the liberties and freedom of others ,

he failed
as his does his logic, if anything he just proved he was a slave and always will be a hypocrit towards his own actions

he might have had somethings right but he had a lot of things backwards and inside out and in conflict with his own reasonings,

the more i read his text the more i see for what he is/was ,
instead of teaching and education people on "his findings" he slammed the board game into the wall because of some sort bad winner/looser dillemma,

reply to post by zerbot565


Yeah its a shame no matter what anyone says and he gets whatever he deserves. Like I said, he had the right motive but the wrong method. He basically contradicted everything he stood for. He used the same means as the people he was trying to fight against. He used terror. But then I am reminded about what he said about being called a terrorist, and then I see why he did it, and I can only wish there was another way, but there really was no other. I think it for people like us who are beyond emotion to take problems such as these and react to them in a positive way rather than a systematic way, allowing the government and media to run this event down and turn all those people's sacrifices into trash. Its our turn to provide the solution. We have to ignore our initial reactions to the murderers, or at least not let it get in the way of our response. I hate having to agree with this bastard, but he had the right intentions, and he was smart. He knew how it would all play out afterwards, and he tried his best (or his worst depending on how you interpret his videos) to get people like us to use this tragic event as a peoples resolution, not a governmental. But seeing so far all of your responses, I can see that will never happen. Not only was he a waste, those lives are now wasted.

Jared Loughner- Americas first Radical Patriot. I never believed we would have one in the likes of the middle eastern jihadists. This is sickening guys. THat just shows how desperate of a situation we are really living in.

delving into the mind of a madman... an exercise in futility.

why are we giving this madman attention? and trying to make sense of an irrational murderer?

If a person kills other people to send a message, he is insane.

Jared Lee Lougher killed people to send a message.

Therefore he is insane.

The op used quite a bit of creativity and word substitution.

If we assume that the entity that made the videos was actually using the words they intended.
It becomes clear they are almost completely compliant with mass media programming.

For instance the belief that currency should be enforced by potentially lethal force,
Just as the Americans releases plans of bombing China.
globlogization.wikistrat.com...
The belief that government education facilities should be free, making indoctrination more universal.
Just as the UN wants to make mandatory education.
webapps01.un.org...!policy.action?id=1202

In terms of the assassination targets, I made a post about it's occult significance.
If he was not maneuvered in any way, then it was some miraculous twist of fate.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Seriously shooting down Gabriel(le), John and Christ(ina) all in one go.
Gabriel the Angel, Gabrielle with astronaut or star-traveller husband,
John the Baptist, John Roll a roman catholic federal judge,
Christ the Child, Christina born on 9-11, a child prodigy.

Oh what a miracle!
God must love ritual sacrifices.

Amazingly of those that died,
they are the main ones mentioned by mass media.

Interesting contemplation, but I don't believe he had any words of wisdom to be gleaned here. The SOB murdered all those people including a 9 year old girl. I don't care to understand what 201009230834042987 or whatever means. The guy used twisted logic to separate himself from reality...and look what it allowed him to do. His ramblings and videos are really warped and disturbing IMHO.

Jared, you really belong in solitary confinement so you can suffer your thoughts and dreams for the rest of your pitiful existence.

Peace, love and condolences to the victims, families and friends.

I am sure that the OP is wrong about this. The 'Little Bible' he got, I got one too when I was getting shipped to basic. Its given to you by the same people who put bibles in hotel rooms. Anyway, I respect your post, it was well reasoned and supported by your own opinions and ideas, but the facts are clear. His posts and youtube videos are ramblings of an insane mind. You will get no more meaning or reason from them then you would from the configureation of moss on a rock. Trying to attribute meaning and reason to a clearly illogical train of thought is folly. That said it seems like he was facinated with the idea of currency and money. I dont know what he was trying to get across but he clearly had trouble communicating.

That said I think he should be drawn and quartered for his murder of a child. Say what you will about rights, but once you kill a child you lose the right to be human in my books.

Originally posted by sp00n1
delving into the mind of a madman... an exercise in futility.

why are we giving this madman attention? and trying to make sense of an irrational murderer?

If a person kills other people to send a message, he is insane.

Jared Lee Lougher killed people to send a message.

Therefore he is insane.

If we all can work together to clearly decode and express his message, we can prove he's not insane and make sure he gets the book thrown at him. Maybe I'm biased but I would hate to see this cold blooded child murderer get treatment for someone who is clinically insane, as opposed to life in prison for a murderous psychopath.

reply to post by zerbot565


okay so this guy busts a cap in 19 people and the media finds one 9 year old white girl to focus on. what about any Hispanics, blacks or Asians? yahoo news said the white girl was born on 9-11. i mean dang, what are the odds of that happening? i just saw pictures of this guy and he looks like a turtlehead fecosephallic smirking eew. i know this sounds immature and insensitive but seriously this guy is an egocentric with a lot of problems and is just plain ugly

Originally posted by sp00n1
delving into the mind of a madman... an exercise in futility.

why are we giving this madman attention? and trying to make sense of an irrational murderer?

If a person kills other people to send a message, he is insane.

Jared Lee Lougher killed people to send a message.

Therefore he is insane.

Interesting Philosophy... One thing comes to mind when I read this.... The pointless insane war.

So if a country kills to send a message then the country is insane.....

What about all the innocent 9 year old children killed in this stupid war. Murder is it not? I do not see the difference here. If the OP is right about his message who are we to judge him?

In no way do I condone what was done. I do not support the killing of ANY human being. I just wanted to make a point.

reply to post by Obinhi


Idk, the whole reason I wrote this was because I feel that he definitely was not as crazy as you might believe, and that we can easily make sense of what he did because there was sense to it. I keep saying this...he was strange, not insane. Just because he speaks in brief sentences and uses metaphors to describe himself does not mean he is insane. And even if it does, metaphors still have meaning. I actually know a few people that speak similarly like him, using short ironic metaphors to describe their emotions and feelings about life. I usually call them poets.

I dont think you can completely reject everything I wrote just because I may be wrong about the entire Mini-Bible part. I said it myself I was pretty confused there and was hoping someone from the military would be able to explain this. Why do they give a mini-bible to someone who has no belief in Christianity? Should the government be doing that? Was he implying that the church does sleep with the state, even its military? Are bibles compulsory to be equipped with? I mean why the hell did he mention that?

All I know is that he is not insane. Murdering people does not equate to insanity. It just means you are desperate. He is already convicted so I'm happy. Now I want to know what the purpose was. But if people are just going to write him off and justify condemning him because he killed a 9 year old then like I said before, you are wasting that 9 year old's death and all the others killed or harmed by Jared by not trying to understand the reason for it because there was a reason that was so obviously clear. He understood everything he was writing and how it would be perceived by us all and tried from the beginning to get us to drop our prejudices, but even then he knew we wouldnt. That's why he kept mocking our literacy throughout. But notice he never really started to open up until the last few vids, where he stopped talking about the state of yours and his mind, and he began to explain himself and his reasoning. I think most of us here would actually have agreed with this guy if he had not been a murderer and could explain himself better.

reply to post by lowki


Currency=Ideas
Free Education=Unconstitutional

He said it himself.

your theories are very interesting nonetheless. But I just dont believe it was ritualistic in any manner. Symbolic most definitely, and autonomous.