Wikileaks is only satisfying natural human desire to see those sitting high pulled down

reply to post by 12m8keall2c


Nice catch, but if true about the spying, he does have a point..

But you are leaning towards getting her out of the way for 2012 I think,,?

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c

Originally posted by wcitizen
I would wager that you haven't read the released documents - maybe one or two at most, not more and certainly not 220 or more.
You clearly don't understand the significance of some of the documents, or their ramifications.
You seem to expect reality to play out like a Hollywood movie. Prepare to be continually disappointed.
When you don't know what you are talking about, stay silent and read and learn.

or ... POSSIBLY ... one could consider the potential ramifications of these 'leaks' being nothing more than well-planned and well-coordinated 'releases' purposefully intended to Distract peoples' attentions from what's really and actually taking place all the while. (?)

... that which wouldn't nor couldn't gain 'public support' otherwise or without.?

That's a possibility, sure, since it's a well known tactic. What do you suggest it might be?

http://__._/
On Sunday 28th Novembre 2010, Wikileaks began publishing 251,287 leaked United States embassy cables, the largest set of confidential documents ever to be released into the public domain. The documents will give people around the world an unprecedented insight into the US Government's foreign activities.

The cables, which date from 1966 to the end of February this year, contain confidential communications between 274 embassies in countries throughout the world and the State Department in Washington DC. 15,652 of the cables are classified Secret.

Wow, I hadn't seen Assange's comments about Hillary resigning when I wrote the above post.

It is irrelevant whether she runs in the 2012 election, IMO, because they are all working for the same masters - so they are all totally interchangeable. Whomever runs or is elected - makes no difference. The same Agenda will be relentlessly pushed forward.

I don't (yet) see this as evidence of a political agenda on Assange's part - she wants him branded a terrorist and arrested - this is his return salvo. Interesting.

Some have the view that Assange is running a Zionist agenda...but, if he's gunning for pro-Israel Clinton, would that argument now make sense?

Soz i cant agree..
International security comes above national security....

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by gncnew

 

Make sure you agree with that premise and quickly fully disclose anything you've ever said to anyone... and hope it doesn't put egg on your face

WRONG!!!!!!
These people are PUBLIC servants. They work for and are paid by us, the tax payer..
What they say on OUR time while being paid with OUR money and then use that knowledge to create OUR Foreign Policy, then we have every right to know what they said..

Me? You don't pay me..But my boss certainly has access to all my work related emails..

WE are THEIR bosses..Many tend to forget that simple fact...

So your boss is entitled to know everything you say to anyone at the office? On the company phone? Using company email?

Originally posted by seedofchucky
"This has nothing to do with real transparency or truth... just essentially destroying the "peace processes"... "


lmfo peace processes haha someone pleaes get the op a reality check.

Its like saying united nations has done a good job at uniting nations =p

I fully understand the joke of it dude... that's why it's in quotes.

But if King Abdula says one thing public because his people demand it - yet privately supports the logical and strategic thing... exposing it just puts him at risk for actually doing the right thing.

You're being naive if you don't think that this is they way politics are run.

Again - if you think it should be so open and transparent, please tell me you run your life the same way right?

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by gncnew
Bottom line is that the first "leaks" didn't do anything but make interesting conversation, so now these "leaks" are making the U.S. look bad...

And they're violating the privacy of what other world leaders thought were private conversations. Essentially showing that it doesn't matter who you're talking to, nothing is secret.

Now, while you talk about how you "have a right" to this info...

Make sure you agree with that premise and quickly fully disclose anything you've ever said to anyone... and hope it doesn't put egg on your face.

When the Saudi's say that Iran is crazy and we should do something about them... what does this serve? Are we really all so eager to share our private thoughts with everyone else? Are you really ready to tell your mate that you think the girl walking down the street is hotter than she is?

Are you really ready to tell the guy you work with that his breath is so bad you just about gag when he talks to you...

Are you ready to tell your boss that you actually think he looks ridiculous in that shirt?

---------------------------------------

This is the same thing.. .just with millions of lives and geopolitical ramifications at stake....

Assange is a dumbass., and those who support him - especially on here - are simply satisfying their own desire to see people in high places fall. This has nothing to do with real transparency or truth... just essentially destroying the "peace processes"...

Get your guns boys, because Assange has decided that diplomacy is dead.

The hysteria and hyperbole about this is quite worrying. Your post sounds like a 12 year old in a school yard.

The US security was so bad it allowed access to all these documents by about 3'000 low grade military and civilian personnel. It was obviously not very worried about security. With that level of carelessness it deserves to have things leaked. THAT is why they are so embarrassed.

All countries have their intel - much of which is top class, including that of N.Korea - so given the deplorable levels of US security, any country which was interested in this info will already have it. Most of this will not be a surprise at all to most countries.

Governments should be held accountable by the people - that is how a democracy is supposed to work. That is because the Government is supposed to serve the people, not the other way round. They are answerable and accountable to the people. The people have a right to know what is going on.

To equate that to disclosing personal detals or personal conversations between private individuals is plain ignorant.

Yes, guns are the answer - that's clearly the policy and the answer to everyting - bomb them, kill them. Nice mentality.

edit on 30-11-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)

Hmmm, you sound like you live in a bubble.

If China knows what we said, and we know what they said... no big deal... but if the public at large knows what we said about them, and they about us... now the posturing starts.

This is simply backing people into a corner because in geopolitics IMAGE is everything.

We can disrespect France all we want privately, but if we do it publicly, then France MUST change the way the interact with us. This forces the hand of people to act differently than what is logical because the "Image" has to be preserved.

How obtuse can you be... seriously.

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by gncnew

 

To every question you asked:

Yes. Yes I would. And then I would smile as people get so offended by the truth

You're lying. You know it, we all know it. "Yes I would"... tell me "Yes I have" and we're going somewhere.

I dont see what is wrong with a little honesty. Loose lips no longer sink ships.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by seedofchucky
"This has nothing to do with real transparency or truth... just essentially destroying the "peace processes"... "


lmfo peace processes haha someone pleaes get the op a reality check.

Its like saying united nations has done a good job at uniting nations =p

The ignorance flying around ATS today is stunning.

How in the world will this affect the (alleged) peace process?

See all the arab nations now having to stop trying to keep Iran from getting nukes.

Now they'll just have to start their own nuke programs. Privately they didn't want to do this, but publicly they had to "support their arab brothers"....

This stuff is forcing their hand. ESPECIALLY in the middle east where the vast majority of public opinion is for Muslim solidarity or Arab solidarity...

Now, they have no choice - what they say in public will have to be what they do in private...

Originally posted by purplemer
Soz i cant agree..
International security comes above national security....

What security? There is no "International Security"..

Originally posted by earthdude
I dont see what is wrong with a little honesty. Loose lips no longer sink ships.

No, loose lips now force Arab nations to build nukes....

I am so disgusted with the idealistic naiveté on this board.


If I'm trying to negotiate an arms reduction treaty with Russia, I need to find out exactly what kind of person I'm dealing with. Are they a narcissist? Are they greedy? Are they logical?

These are fundamental things to KNOW in order to reach a person and work with them.

Now, I can't very well go on TV and say "It's going to be hard to work this deal because the Russian premier is a self-indulgent narcissist"

That will FORCE him to NOT work with me. Because any deal he reaches will be seen as a sign of weakness on his party and reduce his position in his own nation.

But, I know these things through "SECRET CABLES"... well then I can get on camera and talk about what an honorable man he is - thus feeding his ego and getting a better chance at working the treaty through

**SNIP**

Originally posted by gncnew
Bottom line is that the first "leaks" didn't do anything but make interesting conversation, so now these "leaks" are making the U.S. look bad...

Wikileaks isn't doing anything to make the U.S. look bad. The U.S. is doing everything to make itself look bad.

Originally posted by gncnew


Hmmm, you sound like you live in a bubble.

If China knows what we said, and we know what they said... no big deal... but if the public at large knows what we said about them, and they about us... now the posturing starts.

Which comments specifically are you referring to and how would the public knowing about them lead to millions of deaths?

This is simply backing people into a corner because in geopolitics IMAGE is everything.

Can you give me some examples? Usually it's money, oil and other resources which are the priorities.

We can disrespect France all we want privately, but if we do it publicly, then France MUST change the way the interact with us. This forces the hand of people to act differently than what is logical because the "Image" has to be preserved.

Which comments are you referring to, lol?

How obtuse can you be... seriously.

I guess you're gonna have to wait for a reply to that question until I know what on earth you are referring to.

Originally posted by gncnew

I am so disgusted with the idealistic naiveté on this board.

I swear to the Lord above you guys are freaking morons.

edit on 1-12-2010 by gncnew because: (no reason given)

This, from the guru who is trying to teach us idiots about diplomacy - priceless!!!

second

Originally posted by gncnew

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by seedofchucky
"This has nothing to do with real transparency or truth... just essentially destroying the "peace processes"... "


lmfo peace processes haha someone pleaes get the op a reality check.

Its like saying united nations has done a good job at uniting nations =p

The ignorance flying around ATS today is stunning.

How in the world will this affect the (alleged) peace process?

See all the arab nations now having to stop trying to keep Iran from getting nukes.

Now they'll just have to start their own nuke programs. Privately they didn't want to do this, but publicly they had to "support their arab brothers"....

This stuff is forcing their hand. ESPECIALLY in the middle east where the vast majority of public opinion is for Muslim solidarity or Arab solidarity...

Now, they have no choice - what they say in public will have to be what they do in private...

Well, no offence, but I disagree with everything you say in this post.

This just isn't true. It has already exposed crimes. Very first leak about Finland exposed how our country was threatened by China. Our leaders never told this was going on. We have the right to know this stuff.

reply to post by gncnew

So your boss is entitled to know everything you say to anyone at the office? On the company phone? Using company email?

I don't know why you are twisting this subject..
We are not talking about a couple of employees chatting at the water fountain although many companies legally use cameras in the workplace to keep check on employees..

These were "official" cables...So yes, in my job my bosses would have access to them...

Please talk apples v's apples.....

reply to post by gncnew

See all the arab nations now having to stop trying to keep Iran from getting nukes.

Now they'll just have to start their own nuke programs. Privately they didn't want to do this, but publicly they had to "support their arab brothers"....

This stuff is forcing their hand. ESPECIALLY in the middle east where the vast majority of public opinion is for Muslim solidarity or Arab solidarity...

Now, they have no choice - what they say in public will have to be what they do in private...

Why would they have to start their own nuclear program?
Seems if you're nice to the US they will just lend you a few of theirs.

THE US has deployed 200 tactical nuclear weapons in Europe, mostly in Belgium, Holland, Germany and Turkey, the WikiLeaks’ files claim.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I do really think the people have a right to know about things like this.
The US tells us they seek to stop countries getting nukes and yet are handing them out to their mates..
And you wonder why countries like Iran may feel a little insecure..????