Auschwitz Gas Chambers a Myth?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

is simply a symbolic number intrinsic to the religion itself.

How so?

To what ends?

How does the numbers 6 profit them?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

is simply a symbolic number intrinsic to the religion itself.

How so?

To what ends?

How does the numbers 6 profit them?

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
Lenin
Russian Communist politician & revolutionary (1870 - 1924)

Playing with numbers

Makes no difference to the atrocity. It does not excuse it. It is still an atrocity.

Auschwitz was not the only camp. Dachau, Buchenwald, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka and Majdanek all need to be factored in, as do the atrocities at places like Babi-Yar.

Pick your city;

Half a million dead is approximately the population of Manchester in the UK, or Las Vegas in the USA

A million dead is approximately the population of Birmingham in the UK, or Detroit in the USA

Seven Million dead is the entire population of London, or a combination of LA and Chicago in the USA.

Wiping the population of which of those cities out in a deliberate and systematic manner akin to methods used to cull cattle is perfectly justifiable?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

is simply a symbolic number intrinsic to the religion itself.

How so?

To what ends?

How does the numbers 6 profit them?

I am beginning to enjoy you again Stormdancer as I was waiting for someone to ask this question. (Your last post to the Rome thread was a great addition by the way)

Now to answer your question it is said that the Jews were cast out of Israel because they broke their covenant with God (though we know it was actually Rome that sent them into Diaspora) and that according to their scripture they could only return to Israel when the Messiah led them there.

Rules, rules, rules, the world is full of rules, rules that people often look to get around.

Now the actual Jewish religion teaches that there are really only 600,000 Jewish Souls. That while there are in fact more than 600,000 Jews in the world, that they each contain a fragment of one of those 600,000 souls. That there really are only 600,000 complete Jews in existence which is a fixed number, based on scripture that will not ever change.

Now technically because the Messiah has not returned a devout Jew would not be in Israel without being led there by the Messiah.

Unless there was a way to change this edict by God through some action.

The number six represents truth, the number 10 represents God the divine, 6 is the number that links the 600,000 souls of Israel together, when multiplied by 10, you have 6,000,000.

10 relates to Sefiroi (enumerations) Jews believe this is how God manifests himself in the physical and and metaphysical plain. 10 is considered to be the number by which Jews attain divine projection. The 600,000 souls of Israel are considered fragments of the divine. By multiplying them by 10, we have the Jews and God reunited.

Now we know from the Old Testament the Judaen God desires sacrifices from time to time, to appease him when he is offended.

The word Holocaust means burnt offering.

So we can legitimately ask was the Holocaust really in part a sacrificial offering to God to appease him, and seek his permission to return to Israel, and more importantly to convince reluctant devout Jews it was now OK to return to Israel without the Messiah leading them.

That God had been appeased through the numerically significant sacrifice of 6,000,000 thus reuniting God and the Jews through fire and sacrifice together again, for the first time since God sent them into Diaspora.

When one examines all this, there may in fact be an esoteric ellement to the holocaust based on the Torah, Old Testament, Talmud and Oral Traditions and the numerology that is central in the Hebrew Religion.

Now we know through Jewish Scripture Jews can not kill other Jews, that they would have had to enlist an outside non-Jewish source to make this ritual sacrifice and offering to God this holocaust, that it would require a Shoah a calamity that would then enlist a Gentile to become the executioner thus keeping Jewish hands clean of the crime.

When you look at how the number 6,000,000 was floated well before the war, as a target number of Jews being persecuted in Europe, and then consider that it is claimed that those same 6,000,000 perished in the Holocaust the burnt offering you now have yet the makings of another great conspiracy based on hidden symbolism and religion that tantalizes the mind.

You also begin to see why revisionism of the numbers is so frowned upon, and why the Courts in Europe which are all based on Talmudic Law Concepts beginning in the Jewish Community in Egypt before the Exodus maintain that the 6,000,000 number is sacred, with no interest in officially revising it downward or upward.

Simply because it is part of a sacred divination that then becomes central in convincing the devout Jews of the World that God has been appeased and you may return to Israel without being led there by the Messiah as was originally told.

While many might find these notions offensive, we begin now to understand why 6,000,0000 is such an important number to the Jewish Community.

We begin to understand why they want us to know and always remember this was a holocaust a burnt offering.

Because this all signifies that through this they are back in trust and have regained trust with God and that their covenent with God is now in full force again.

Because like is so often the case, convincing yourself something is valid and real usually entails convincing others it is valid and real too.

This also strongly illustrates how it is entirely possible that the Zionists headed by Lord Rothschild who originally secured parts of Palestine for a New Israel through the British and the Balfour Declaration might have used his extreme wealth and political connections to arrange for the burnt offering of the mystical 6,000,000 required through some Kabalah like rite to appease God and gain his permission and blessing to populate Israel again, but more importantly to convince reluctant devout Jews that they would not be offending God to repopulate Israel again.

This is a compelling argument and a theory well worth looking into as we delve in the hidden, the esoteric, the mythical backbone, of the Judean Christian system that is the basis of our shared reality.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I will appologize directly to Intrepid...

FTR and sorry for the off topic post, this has happened and his apology was accepted. Very big of you PT.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I will appologize directly to Intrepid...

FTR and sorry for the off topic post, this has happened and his apology was accepted. Very big of you PT.

Thank you Intrepid it's very big of you after I did such an incredibly stupid thing. Thanks for being the tremendous person you are.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

The only problem there is that the 6 million figure was not estimated by jews alone. Personally, I find the frequency of numbers appearing in our lives to be something called coincidence.

it's also 6:06 twice a day - when I wake up and when I leave my office (on a good day) and, being jewish, that must mean something too.

All the random, Cliff Claven-esque extrapolation in the world won't deflect the reality that you seem determined to ignore.

I think it would only mean something if you deliberately chose that time as part of a religious ritual practice. Yet you also might want to ask why are you compelled to wake up and go home at this time every day?

I am by the way not trying to ignore reality, in fact the opposite, I am better trying to understand it's very nature.

I am not denying the holocaust or that Jews were singled out and persecuted during the holocaust.

So no I don't think I am ignoring reality.

Yet I do live in the world where in my humble opinion nothing is truly what it appears on the surface. So where others are content to stop, I keep digging, because I am genuinely convinced in all things, there is more to the story.

The story itself fascinates me.

We live in a world that is underpinned by religion, where reality is in large part shared, based on some very old religious concepts, teachings and beliefs.

We live in a world where great minds are often fascinated by the esoteric, explain then if you will, why FDR during his tenure in the Whitehouse felt compelled to have every book and article in Manly P. Hall's Library on the Esoteric and Hidden coppied in California and sent to him.

Was FDR simply fascinated by the Esoteric for academic or entertainment purposes, or as a player and architecht on and of the World Stage was he trying to understand elements and interact with elements of the esoteric in his role as a leader, to effect an outcome through doing that.

Not only do I not deny the Holocaust, I don't deny Religion, or the importance that Religion has for many, many people.

I confess I do not fully understand the esoteric ellements that many feel are hidden behind religion, that the priestly and kingly class are alleged to use to tap into divine powers and sources.

While these might not be real, Libraries like Manly P. Hall's clearly display that some of the greatest minds throughout history consider these things enough to be real.

Groups like the Masons and Rosecrucian Order and the Jewish Kabalah actually make studies of these things, and even incorporate elements of them into their rituals and practices.

None of these things I have invented, yet all of these things really do exist, even though they are not widely understood or accepted by the average person.

Who is alleged to understand them, and there is some evidence for that, are not average people, but leaders in the political, priestly, and corporate class who whether for amusement or enlightenment delve into them.

Some members consider me to be anti-religious in general because I look at ways religions are seemingly often used by the kingly and political class to manipulate the masses through them.

Christians argue endlessly about what some riddled passages of the Bible mean, often claiming there is some hidden esoteric meaning. The Jews too have had their own debates that gave rise to the Talmud and the Kabalah.

Is it wrong to look for the hidden possible meaning in events, for a greater signifigance and understanding?

I don't believe so.

Is it wrong to theorize that those who are religious and do believe, might in fact conspire to do things that pay homage to that religion's ancient practices and beliefs?

I don't think so, otherwise Temples, Synagouges, Churches and Mosques wouldn't be full come worship day, their treasuries, coffers, and collection plates and boxes would be empty.

Now I ask you honestly, lets suppose for a second, if you can, if it does not offend you so, that I am correct. That there really was more to this story and something very important involved for the Jewish religion and race in that. Can you really say you wouldn't want to know that?

If the whole notion offends you so much to the point that you couldn't contemplate that alternate explanation for just a fraction of a moment, can you say why it offends you so, and then could you ask yourself, what if, what if there is something to it all? Would you be doing yourself any favors by not considering or investigating it?

If so what would that favor be?

With all due respect I am not attempting to be offensive, but inquisitive and thorough which is my nature.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Great post Proto. Fascinating stuff.

Can you tell me what the scriptures suggest will happen if the Jews do return to Israel without the 6 million sacrifice ?

Lets say for a moment that there wasn't 6 million murdered in the holocaust, and the Jews have returned without the Messiah, instead on the back of a lie ..... what is in store for them ?

I would try and find out myself, but I'm short of time right now. If you don't have an answer I will try and find out later.

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Great post Proto. Fascinating stuff.

Can you tell me what the scriptures suggest will happen if the Jews do return to Israel without the 6 million sacrifice ?

Lets say for a moment that there wasn't 6 million murdered in the holocaust, and the Jews have returned without the Messiah, instead on the back of a lie ..... what is in store for them ?

I would try and find out myself, but I'm short of time right now. If you don't have an answer I will try and find out later.

No, I am not aware of if there was a prescribed punishment, though I think it safe to presume that no one who believes in this God would want to do something that would expressedly defy and offend him, and hope not to recieve some kind of punishment for that.

Yet of the 12,000,000 to 14,000,000 Jews either ethnic or religious that are thought to live in the world today, we do know that only about a quarter of those have returned to Israel.

So we might ask if in part that is because they aren't absolutely sure it's alright with God to return. While there are obvious reasons why Jews who have ties to communities in various countries throughout the world, would not want to leave those nations and places for that reason, the Jews in Israel themselves still consider these dispersed Jews to be in Diaspora.

There are probably many average normal reasons why most choose to remain in Diaspora but it does beg the question are some of them frightened to return because the Messiah has not led them there.

Was a holocaust a burnt offering to God based on the mystical numerology of 6,000,000 really in part a means to convince them it was alright, that amends had been made for breaking the covenant, but are some Jews rejecting this notion because they know that the magical number wasn't really attained. That either more or fewer were sacrificed in the Holocaust therefore God could not have been appeased.

Now to not consider these things at least in theory would mean you are in fact denying the meaning of what Holocaust means, burnt offering, and we know that people killed in the concentration camps were cremated.

So it would seem to me that holocaust denial, real holocaust denial is denying what the actual word means.

Further, are we going to deny the Judean religion itself, the Jews are really just an ethnic race and sure while they have a religion that talks about all these things, and lays out all these things, they really pay no heed to these things or place any real importance on them.

So it would seem to me not considering these things is akin to denying that the Judean religion bears any relevance on Jews at all, that they are simply just an ethnic race.

I know it wasn't me that selected the word Holocaust and obviously if the Jews themselves didn't like that word being employed they would reject it and speak publicly out against it.

It appears that it might be more important that we not forget this was a Holocaust than it is to understand precisely what is a Holocaust.

Are we prepared to deny blood sacrifice was not an important part of the Jewish Religion when they were driven into Diaspora.

Are we prepared to deny the search for the Red Heffer to concecrate a New Jewish Temple in Jerusalem on the site of the First and Second Temples is not an ongoing quest and dream of many devout Jews.

Are we prepared to deny that if the Jews of Jeruselum could build that third Temple that they would not concecrate it in blood sacrifice as God commands and instructs them?

So can we rule out that Blood Sacrifice an intrinsic part of the Judean religion as it was originally practiced was not what the Holocaust was all about?

This is all divide and conquer tactics my friends

We all can argue about something ridiculous with one rapacious voice
like the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz

But yet modern day stories of ACTUAL genocide
REAL GENOCIDE
Happens and we apathetically pass it by like a commercial about a new CIA based military training video game

Guilt and disinformation about "the" holocaust permeates the media landscape
Just of kicks let's go with your number
You got it mister
6 million all gassed in chambers and reduced to ash in a matter of months
despite the need for slave labor
and all the while strangely enough having little effect on the German War Machine production efforts

6 million (Jews)
15 - 50 million (Native Americans)

If then what you state is true then how do these reparations even compare to
these reparations

I could get worse but I don't want to offend anyone concerning how poorly they have been treated
I do not want to rub salt in the wound

This story is a political football and it is used to guilt trip the rest of the world into supporting the terrorist state of Israel

Notice that I never say a negative word about Jews
Wanna know why
Because all the Jews that have talked to me have been funny as H-EE-DOUBLE-HOCKEY-STICKS

see this before even considering using a word that might include hate

The state of Israel is not a state that exists due to religious prophecy
It is a state that masquerades as existing due to religious prophecy

Religions are different and hermeneutics is the vehicle of deciphering the love or hate for the (fake) or (real) Messiah by either having the Christian Bible crucify their God or the Jewish Talmud who places Jesus in the lowest level of Hell to be boiled in excrement

So much love
It really makes me tingle

We must separate the people Jews from the state Israel

Remember the Abrahamic faiths were ALL a part of a reaction to the Roman Empire

I think that it would be ridiculous for the rulers of the Romans who learned their trade from Greece to not improve upon the form of religious control given then by Troy if I am not mistaken

Here we have religion #2 to control the people

Christianity

Those who propagate the holocaust-denial publicly are risking jail
terms for a number of years both in Germany and Canada like Zündel,
extradicted from Canada to Germany, has served his in Germany
until March this year. Even his defending lawyer in court received
a 3-year jail term for supporting his beliefs, not being factual and
neutral. She was barred for 5 years as a lawyer.

Apparently the holocaust-denial is not punishable in the US, because
most of the denial-web-sites work out of the US.

Holocaust-deniers in this forum beware and give Germany and Canada
a wide berth.

To present the de-lousing as a probability for the existence of the gas
chambers is absolutely ridiculous and cynical. What reason to be would
the ovens have in a de-lousing process ?

I have seen the chambers myself only this summer in DACHAU, although
they were built too late to be used there. I saw dozens of ovens and venti-
lation systems and the false inscription on the doors to make the prisoners
believe they were only entering a shower room for their personal cleanliness.

I saw the ingenious mechanized transportation system for the dead bodies
into and out of the ovens after their intended killing by the prussic acid.

I saw the housing barracks and all their misery.

Book a trip to beautiful Munich and take a bus tour to the camp.

I was convinced of the holocaust before I went there. Right after the war
I saw the films taken of the camps by the American army, who testified
to the existence of the gas chambers and also took probes of the their
walls.

The head criminals of Nazi Germany were convicted for those atrocities
by the international Nurembourg court to capital punishment.

To bring this topic up after all the irrefutable proof of its happening is
indecent and irreverent to the 6 million+ Nazi-victims, among whom
1.2 million, who died in the gas chambers.

Why don´t you go digging for the truth in your own US archives ?

To explain the cost-efficiency of not killing the "slaves" by their
usefulness for labor is also both foolish and cynical.
They had more than enough new slaves from the East to keep the
living on just enough (inexpensive) food to guarantee the survival
of the majority for a sufficient period of time, while the weaker ones
were sorted out by these rations, respectively simply died from
hunger, and were replaced by new slaves.

By the way the US was using the same acid to de-louse Mexican
immigrants and trains to the US around 1930.

I wish for the topic to be closed for irreverence to the victims.

reply to post by Udo Hohnekamp Lux.


guess what
i am a citizen of the United States of America
and due to the due process clause of incorporating
the idea of free speech
as it has been decided by the Supreme Court that our Constitution allows me to say whatever I may
And it is not only backed by ONE BUT TWO Supreme Court Amendments

So if you are an imposter
Then I charge you with bullying and internet plagiarism
I am in a special minority
the "those who question the official storyline of the holocaust" minority
I need protection from these fascists

FREEDOM OF SPEECH ALWAYS

Long Live John Zenger

I have heard of something called a proxy server
What is it exactly
And try to figure out how to use it and let me know
I am dying to figure it out

reply to post by Josephus23


And with your post, you confirm my whole point once again.

You seek to deny because you have a problem with modern Israel.

The actions of modern Israel are not the fault of those who died. You are blinded by your apparent inability to comprehend that simple fact.

reply to post by Josephus23


What is wrong with you?
Seriously, what the heck is wrong with you?

“6 million all gassed in chambers and reduced to ash in a matter of months “

No one claimed all of the 6 millions Jews were gassed. No one, but you.
So essentially, you are trying to refute a claim no one made except you, and win a debate by constantly diverting it to “real” genocide by putting layer upon layer of lies.

reply to post by neformore


I have never denied the holocaust sans maybe a sarcastic euphemism

It happened
I think the official storyline contains much truth interspersed with lies

but go ahead

call me what you will but i am sick of hearing about some special claim to the land between the rivers
I am sick of having legit questions dodged and diverted by men such as yourself

I used to get SOOO annoyed at that type of behavior because I began to think that the general public had actually believed all the lies about the corporation that is our country and is my employer
And that THEY truly did immanenetize the eshaton
the money that finances wars are still the fall guys in this matter but just for kicks whose family besides the Rockefellers has the best PR team known to man

I will give you a hint and they produce some mighty fine wine and they own the Bank of England
And they are the kings of the concept we discuss and that is Banking
Guess where banking had its modern "virtual" beginnings thanks to Leonardo of Pisa (Fibonacci)
(the idea of bubbles as by people buy bonds to support a community for an interest in Florenz)

ITALY
THE NORTHERN PART
CLOSE TO ROME
THE HEART OF THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE

This is all a game devised during the Roman Empire and we are watching it unfold

I am starting to think that even keeled folk like yourself here are beginning to think that I am some Jew-basher and that is the furthest from the truth!!!

Rome created the Jews as the first experiment in religious social control because before that in Canaan the Jews worshiped El (who was the God(S) of Abraham by the way)
In the end all will turn on Israel because IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN
Wake and realize that life is a screenplay about God
Whether God is
Is not apart of the screenplay
The point is the screenplay
Because the first thing any actor must master is the fear of being what they are

I have no idea if it is the holy word of God but certain people have a reason for wanting it to be and for the events to happen in order to strengthen their faith not to mention also those that happen to have a hidden agenda to turn the world against Israel


It is truly sad that two people who essentially see eye to eye can be made to kill one another
Whoever doubted the power of propaganda was the one who doubted the power of propaganda

You know on the battlefield during WW1 the Germans and American sang Christmas Carols to one another
No one wants to fight it is just that most people are trained to give their life to the king it has been this way since the dawn of the priesthood of the mysteries

Originally posted by Josephus23
This is all divide and conquer tactics my friends

We all can argue about something ridiculous with one rapacious voice
like the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz

But yet modern day stories of ACTUAL genocide
REAL GENOCIDE

I'm pretty much fed up with your nonsenses.

It's time you back up your claims with real numbers.
How many Palestinians were in 1947, and how many in 2010.
Then explain how this is an “ Actual genocide” while the Holocaust is not.

I generally agree with

ProtoplasmicTraveler and

Josephus23

about the Roman connections through history.

and I agree with the 6 x 10 x 10 ... number associations with Judeaism.

and I agree that religions are used as manipulative tools by TPTB.

I think all roads from Rome lead to everywhere else.

Originally posted by xuenchen
I generally agree with

ProtoplasmicTraveler and

Josephus23

And the sheep go Bahhhh!

Sorry, but it is worth whatever punishment. Spank me!

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I don't get it !

can you explain ?

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by xuenchen
I generally agree with

ProtoplasmicTraveler and

Josephus23

And the sheep go Bahhhh!

Sorry, but it is worth whatever punishment. Spank me!

General Conspiracies: This forum is dedicated to general conspiracy theories, cover-ups, and government scandals that may not fit into other topical forums on ATS. Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups. Members who would seek to refute such theories should be mindful of AboveTopSecret.com's tradition of focusing on conspiracy theory, cover-ups, and scandals.

It would seem regarding certain subjects this is not an actual eforcable doctrine, so I think you are safe in what you say.

Yet I honestly do believe in Josephous's case that he imagined he would post this video and like most other topics on ATS people would either say "Wow that video is nonsense, and doesn't prove anything" or "I believe, I believe" and would then explain why.

He really has never posted on one of these holocaust topics before to know what he was really getting himself into politically.

I don't post on them often because they usually are just an insultfest, with a lot of people who are so thoroughly 'educated' on the topic, that it can lead to 'herd' reactions.

I think it goes to show the power of the education, religious, government and media system when they all operate in tandem to promote a general belief, and how those beliefs become institutionalized.

Some would say there is a danger in not questioning what they have gone through so much trouble to instill in us, while some would claim it is especially rediculous to question something that they have gone through so much trouble to instill in us.

The truth is if there is a conspiracy behind the holocaust which I personally believe there is, the masses couldn't handle the truth, based on that level of indoctrination and universal acceptance, and the same holds true about many other things like religion in general and and national systems of government.

I am not sure precisely why some members are dedicated to belittling and berating those that like to talk about, theorize on, and investigate conspiracies, since it is in fact a conspiracy site, but as I say, things are seldom what they are billed to be on the surface.

Life, it's a funny old dog.