I suspect reality is as follows, and I want liberation from it

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
What EVIDENCE do you have that consciousness carries on long after the physical body has ceased?

When you understand the distinction between the physical vehicle and the abstract consciousness you will see that there is no reason to believe that consciousness is destroyed just because it can no longer communicate with the vehicle.

Your brain does not have primacy in the equation.

Consciousness itself is not a product of the physical vehicle.

The evidence is the fundamentally non-physical nature of consciousness.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
reply to post by schuyler

 

Last night I had the strangest dream, as the song goes, not about putting an end to war unfortunately, but about a very cute, very small monkey that I let in my window. I kept asking the little monkey to sit on my shoulder, but it wouldn't, it would just tilt it's head and look at me quizically. I put it on my shoulder, and it jumped straight off like it'd been shocked, and then hid from me. I couldn't coax it back out again. That, in the dream, made me sad. Wanting to know how to look after it, I looked up what type of monkey it was, or saw a nameplate, or something like that, I can just remember it being black text on a white background. I woke up, just before 5, straight out of the dream, switched on the light and wrote down the name. Mainly because it was an unusual name but also I was sure that I had seen it before somewhere. Cutting to the quick, it was a Schuyler Monkey, which of course does not exist. So now I am wondering why I am dreaming about you and why you are a little monkey. Any ideas?

Perhaps, it's to do with boobs...I should maybe try that thread instead...could I have been wanting you to sit on my shoulder so that you would look at my cleavage because you need to feel better? Or perhaps to make me feel better? Am I feeling inadequate because I can't make men healthy because I lack the necessary cleavage?

Interesting...and not even remotely off-topic, if you think about it.

This reminds me of a little parrot I recently had. He wouldnt sit on my shoulder either. I couldnt make him happy and he couldnt make me happy. I gave him back. Hell it is.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

No, my scepticism is getting in the way. My view of religion is that it is false, presumptuous and immature.

I am skeptic as there is no evidence.

If someone tells me "I can talk to Ghosts/Dead People"," Heal people with their hands", "There is an afterlife" - i want evidence to confirm these claims.

What EVIDENCE do you have that consciousness carries on long after the physical body has ceased?

Forgive me if i'm being ignorant, but what evidence do you have? Present me with it.

There is evidence. But it is not quite what you are thinking of as evidence so it will be very difficult for you understand it.

What you are thinking is your sense of perception is not that at
all. It is the Avoidance of Relationship to Everything.
You are not perceiving reality,you are avoiding perceiving reality.
You are creating the illusion of separate existence by constantly meditating on your Egoself.
It is explained here.

reply to post by Jezus


Even still, the metaphysical claims cannot be trusted as "FACT" or "TRUTH" - Again, like Mediums, Psycics, Fortune Tellers, they all rely on this unfalsifiable hypothesis.

I could say "There IS a diamond in my back garden"

Without digging or investigating there is no reason anyone should believe this, if i am unwilling to dig. It's just an irrational claim.

We have no means of knowing what is beyond life itself (currently) so anyone claiming any truth is relying on the fact that no one can prove them wrong, or right.

Again, i think it is wise and humble to remain skeptical and agnostic to these extra-ordinary claims.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
We have no means of knowing what is beyond life itself (currently) so anyone claiming any truth is relying on the fact that no one can prove them wrong, or right.

This is exactly why the best why to understand this concept is to understand consciousness itself.

I am not claiming I have proof of "life" after death.

I am pointing out that if you comprehend the abstract nature of consciousness there is no reason to believe your mind will be destroyed just because it can no longer communicate with the physical vehicle.

It is about understanding the primacy of consciousness.

The Primacy of Consciousness (1 of 7)

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Jezus


If i grant you this as true, i can simply state that "rocks" have feelings, can you prove me wrong?

2nd line.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


You are not a rock.

You ARE a conscious entity (I assume, because scientifically it can't be proven).

You ARE capable of understanding the abstract nature of consciousness in contrast to the external world you experience.

Physiological psychology in relation to linguistics is a great place to start.
(Neuro-linguistic brain damage studies)

It will help you to understand the distinction between the physical storage of information within the brain and the concepts that we feel and think.

The brain is our link to the external world but it does not have primacy.

The Primacy of Consciousness (1 of 7)
www.youtube.com...

The primacy of consciousness is an observable fact.

Understanding is the only limitation.

funny, I always thought the world is what we make of it...

Liberated !

third line

reply to post by Jezus


I know i'm not a rock, rocks can't have feelings, emotions and thus consciousness because they are not a functioning biological entity. We are, and when we cease, so does our consciousness.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
and when we cease, so does our consciousness.

well now that's just fun isn't it ?

imagine if the rest of the humans on the planet were walking around with that mind-funk in their head, what would it all be for then ?

fun, fun...

gotta love the British

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


I love the British , not because i'm blindly patriotic, but because i love the history, especially our history of inventers and great thinkers.

What's so bizarre about my comments? Before you were alive you didn't have consciousness, the biological body gave you consciousness that you have now, what makes you think that when the body dies or ceases that this will magically carry on?

It's not that i'm a pessimist or i wish people didn't get a 2nd life. I'm just thinking about this logically.

The biological entity we call "human" allows for consciousness.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

I love the British

, not because i'm blindly patriotic, but because i love the history, especially our history of inventers and great thinkers.

What's so bizarre about my comments? Before you were alive you didn't have consciousness, the biological body gave you consciousness that you have now, what makes you think that when the body dies or ceases that this will magically carry on?

It's not that i'm a pessimist or i wish people didn't get a 2nd life. I'm just thinking about this logically.

The biological entity we call "human" allows for consciousness.

en.wikipedia.org...

yes but does our conscience carry on ?

there is plenty of evidence for this and there are plenty of shows and stories dealing with just this. The have been too many reports from people with NDE's to just dismiss this as hallucination, also there are age old stories about ghosts ect...

I believe yes before we are born (since I can not remember this time) that we were nothingness, but then came into being and that our conscience 'evolves' into being and individuality.

some say it is a test, others say it is a union with the cosmos ect...

there is evidence supporting multiple dimensions and that would mean multiple realities, kind of like we are experiencing as individuals, each is his own world in a sense.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
We are, and when we cease, so does our consciousness.

Our consciousness? You ARE consciousness.

Again, you are simplifying the issue and speaking in vague generalizations.

You need to understand the details and study the science behind consciousness to understand the primacy.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
The biological entity we call "human" allows for consciousness.

The biological entity interacts with consciousness but it does not create consciousness.

If fact when you understand the primacy of consciousness you will learn it is the other way around.

Moving physical pieces, no matter how "complicated" they may seem, can not magically create feeling, emotion, thoughts, and abstract concepts.

Your brain is nothing but a moving piece synthesizing information.

It can not create consciousness and no science suggests it does.

You are confusing correlation with causation.

The Primacy of Consciousness (1 of 7)

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Jezus


Ok, so maybe i AM misunderstanding. Maybe there is some truth to this. Maybe i'm just narrow minded as the religious call me.

Have you got any scientific evidence that this is true? I'm very interested if so.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Jezus

 

Ok, so maybe i AM misunderstanding. Maybe there is some truth to this. Maybe i'm just narrow minded as the religious call me.

Have you got any scientific evidence that this is true? I'm very interested if so.

well this is kind of a big mystery, I have not looked deep enough into it myself to be able to post any said facts, but I am sure there is a whole section dealing with this subject on ATS somewhere if not multiple topic in different sections.

I like to keep an open mind.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Jezus

 

Ok, so maybe i AM misunderstanding. Maybe there is some truth to this. Maybe i'm just narrow minded as the religious call me.

Have you got any scientific evidence that this is true? I'm very interested if so.

Physiological psychology, linguistics, neuroscience, and a logical understanding of consciousness itself need to be looked at as a whole to really understand the concept.

This documentary is a good place to start.

The Primacy of Consciousness (1 of 7)

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by awake_and_aware


How do you know rocks can't? :p

reply to post by schuyler
Yours is a familiar viewpoint among people who are at the doorstep to rebirth and new life. Seeing the fruitlessness of your existence and that of your fellow man, and losing your love for this world and all in it, positions you for the greatest gift our God has ever given us, Eternal Love which comes with the vision to see your purpose on this planet.

Your purpose is far greater than you can currently imagine. What you need is more clarity on not only Who you are, but What you are. Most people can handle the 'Who', but growing numbers of people are beginning to come to grips with the 'What'. God-Like. Understanding the Who, is challenging to say the least. But it allows you to empty your cup. It's about time you contact your spirit to witness and experience the 'What' you are. I would wager that you will find a new meaning to life and passion to survive, pursue and fulfill it's purpose.


There are many ascended spirits that can help you through the wildeness. I chose the perfect all-light love of Christ to hold me and rebuild me from ground up. DNA is awakening.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


That's one of those bankrupt questions, like "how do you know i even exist" - There is no interlectual stimulus and there is no clear logic path.

Even if rocks DID have "feelings" - How could you test for this? It's another unfalsifiable hypothesis.

It's also like saying "how do you know the colour blue isn't red to me?" - It's fail philosophy.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Awake_and_Aware.

I, as yourself, read the Watcher's brief post and this is what I took from it:

What if you chose to experience our world through a point of view that is NOT human? Perhaps imaginatively adopting the viewpoint of a "squirrel", a "blade of grass", maybe a "hummingbird" or even a "trapdoor spider" would probably suffice in this endeavor.

And offered here as a possibly blasphemous suggestion; one experiment for you COULD be to try to cerebrally encounter your world via the imaginatively assumed perspective of a crystal of freeze-dried coffee, a lit candle (one of my own favorites, by the way), a shoe or any other [assumed] inanimate object...

...maybe even a "rock". Keep in mind here Awake_and_Aware that assigning "human qualities" such as emotions, intellect and moral values to these "imaginings" would perhaps NOT be an appropriate action. Maybe you could give your imagination free rein for a brief time; maybe not.

Awake_and_Aware, my point here is very simple:

Science is nothing short of being a truly magnificent belief system. It has, to state the obvious, supplanted other systems of belief (here I'm primarily referring to the belief systems associated with the world's major and minor religions) which have dominated the thinking of humanity for thousands of years.

However, although science has amassed incredibly voluminous and detailed caches of knowledge concerning, for example, biological organisms (on both macro and micro scales), science cannot convey [to its believers] how a single frog perceives its own world.

And though there are those who would consider understanding the world viewpoint of a frog as being somewhat less than necessary, I personally feel as though science should at least apply effort in this regard if for no other reason than contributing to that impressive cache of scientific world knowledge and, thusly, arrive at an ever changing, dynamic and more complete "scientific worldview". This knowledge could also reflect science's taking another tentative and courageous step into a perceptibly "larger" world...of its own.

Good luck with the experiencing of your world A&A.

Thanks for listening.

Mindpeace