We need the Mashiach NOW!!

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet



Different versions? The Apostles are all of one accord.

Have you ever pondered the Day of Atonement sacrifice and how it perfectly pictures the crucifixion of Jesus Christ?

Can you explain His miracles? Walking on water, giving the blind their sight, the deaf their hearing? Raising the dead? Raising Himself from the dead?

He is God in the flesh.

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

There is actually a answer to that question. And you may not like it. So here goes.

Romans 11.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Isaiah 6
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate'
12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

I'm afraid I did something bad here. The curse of Malachi is supposed to be a secret. You were not supposed to know about it until it was over.............My bad......Ooops.

Guess I haven't gotten the hang of these new powers yet.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So Jesus performing miracles makes him God? My view and your view God are different. Jesus as God does not come out. To me there are two reasons who God grants miracles to people. One if they are prophets. Like Elijah and two to turn people away from Judaism. Which if Jesus was true then God granted him miracles to lure people away from Judaism.

Originally posted by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So Jesus performing miracles makes him God? My view and your view God are different. Jesus as God does not come out. To me there are two reasons who God grants miracles to people. One if they are prophets. Like Elijah and two to turn people away from Judaism. Which if Jesus was true then God granted him miracles to lure people away from Judaism.

"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. You diligently study[a] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

John 5:36-40

"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."

John 14:7

"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."

John 18:19

"Philip said to Jesus, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."
Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. The person that has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you truly believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The things I have told you don't come from me. The Father lives in me, and he is doing his own work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or believe because of the miracles I have done."

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Sorry! I understand what you're saying but it goes against what I believe! I believe God is one and eternal. God cannot have children, and God is God. God in Judaism
Don't you agree?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Have you read Isaiah 9:6 lately?


"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."



Wait? "Born"? Is God born or are creatures "born"? How can God Almighy be "born"?

Hmmm, interesting... And this "son" that is to be "born" will be called BOTH:

"MIGHTY GOD" and "EVERLASTING FATHER"?????

Was Isaiah committing blasphemy? Or is Isaiah a false prophet??

Or...


Did God enter human history as a man to make a permanent atonement for the sins of mankind????

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Issiha 9

You need to read the Hebrew translation and read the verse over again!
Trust me study the OT in Hebrew and compare to yours.

Is someone who says he has not come to bring peace someone we can call "Prince of Peace?" This passage is, in reality, about the wonders performed by the Lord for Hezekiah, king of Judah. "Hezekiah" means "Strong/mighty is G-d." This passage is Isaiah's praise of the Lord for his salvation in the affair of Sennacherib's siege of Jerusalem. We find an allusion to this in that the rare usage of the term "the zeal of Lord" is used elsewhere in reference to Hezekiah's victory. The fact that the New Testament doesn't even quote this passage shows what a weak prooftext it is.

Originally posted by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Sorry! I understand what you're saying but it goes against what I believe! I believe God is one and eternal. God cannot have children, and God is God. God in Judaism
Don't you agree?

I most certainly do not agree. What made me believe is the Messianic prophecies. I TRUST God's word completely. I believe His testimony of himself and His Son. Solomon even asks his reader in Proverbs if they "KNOW" the name of God "or His Son's name".

Secondly, nothing is impossible with God, except to lie.

"Who has gone up to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands?
Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and the name of his son?
Tell me if you know!"

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


Do you even realize the Messorites altered the Hebrew in the first century? Are you even aware of this? It appears you are not.

Check out the translation in the Septuagint. It's the first translation into Greek from the ancient Hebrew texts, done by 70 of the best Hebrew scholars 300 years before Christ.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Well like I said earlier I believe God is eternal, can't have children but can create life. I believe Jews call themselves the children of God or even the Son of Men/God. So it's a figure of speech. Do you agree?

Originally posted by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Well like I said earlier I believe God is eternal, can't have children but can create life. I believe Jews call themselves the children of God or even the Son of Men/God. So it's a figure of speech. Do you agree?

Jesus is eternal as well. The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, yet all are one God. It's His divine nature. And in several places in the OT it can be clearly seen.

Jesus is the "Word of the Lord", and the "Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us."

Why does God say in Genesis:

"Let US make man in OUR image"?

Why is the Hebrew word for God "Elohim", which is PLURAL?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


This statement does not suggest either a dual or triune deity. What John's Jesus meant by the word hen ("one") becomes clear from his prayer concerning the apostles: "That they may be one [hen], just as we are one [hen]" (John 17:22), which means that they should be united in agreement with one another as he (Jesus) is always united in agreement with God, as stated: "I [Jesus] always do the things that are pleasing to Him [God]" (John 8:29).

There is thus no implication that Jesus and God, or the twelve apostles are to be considered as of one essence

www.jewsforjudaism.org...:what-is-the-meaning-of-god-said-qlet-us-make-man-in-our-image---&catid= 49:trinity&Itemid=501

Answer: Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are prooftexts of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, "And God created man in His image" (Genesis 1:27). In this verse the Hebrew verb "created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the NEXT verse by, "And they created man in their image." Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the divine appellation 'Elohim, to indicate the all-inclusiveness of God's attributes of authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to speak of himself as if he were a plurality. Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give your counsel what we shall do" (2 Samuel 16:20). The context shows that he was seeking advice for himself' yet he refers to himself as "we" (see also Ezra 4:16-19).

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


Look, we can go back and forth for days in these threads. But let me prophesy to you:


One person we can both agree upon who cannot lie, this is the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. So pray to Him in that manner. If you pray to him, address Him in that manner and ask Him to show you if Jesus Christ is the Moshiach. If Jesus Christ is in fact Lord. Don't take my word for it, ask God in prayer.

Then, faithfully read the NT. Pray every time you open the book and read. God inspired the Word to be written. Don't trust me, I'm a man. But ask God to show you the truth, if Jesus is in fact Lord or not.

And God WILL show you the truth, no matter where the chips may fall.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Well I knew we were going to come this stance. Like finding a fossil. There are so many pieces and what not to continue to find and interpret in many ways. We're both winners here! It was fun talking to you!

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

"And they created man in their image."

ABSOLUTELY not. "They" would imply 3 different Gods. Christians do not believe in Polytheism. God is One, yet exists in 3 persons. God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, yet He is One... not 3.

When God said "Let us make man in our image" He made us all with a soul, spirit, and body. We both agree that when a person dies their soul and spirit move along into eternity, yet the body returns to dust.

So let me ask you, are we 3 different people? Or were we created in God's image, 3 persons in one?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I believe in One God and he will always be one God. He created in free will. Read the link I offered. We can argue about this all night. We will get no where.

Originally posted by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Well I knew we were going to come this stance. Like finding a fossil. There are so many pieces and what not to continue to find and interpret in many ways. We're both winners here! It was fun talking to you!

I'm not implying I want to end our correspondence. Just wanting you to realize that Jeremiah prophesied the end of the Abrahamic covenant, the "Old Testament/Covenant" and that a new one (Testament/Covenant) would come from God.

the OT states that blindness will come to the Jews because of their iniquity. Jesus cursed the Jews with blindness because they didn't grasp the day of their visitation, and that blindness exists today.

Jesus declared His deity when He rose from the dead like He told people He would do.

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


You didn't answer my question.

Are we 3 different people, or are we in fact created in His image.. 3 persons in one?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I answered your question! You just don't like what I have to say. God is one and will always be one. He is Incorporeal. He cannot and is not a human. Trinitarian Christians maintain that Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7 are prooftexts of an alleged tri-unity god, but this claim is erroneous. The inference that "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26) refers to the plurality of God is refuted by the subsequent verse, which relates the creation of man to a singular God, "And God created man in His image" (Genesis 1:27). In this verse the Hebrew verb "created" appears in the singular form. If "let us make man" indicates a numerical plurality, it would be followed in the NEXT verse by, "And they created man in their image." Obviously, the plural form is used in the same way as in the divine appellation 'Elohim, to indicate the all-inclusiveness of God's attributes of authority and power, the plurality of majesty. It is customary for one in authority to speak of himself as if he were a plurality. Hence, Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give your counsel what we shall do" (2 Samuel 16:20). The context shows that he was seeking advice for himself' yet he refers to himself as "we" (see also Ezra 4:16-19).

There is another possible reason for the use of the plural on the part of God, and that is to manifest His humility. God addresses Himself to the angels and says to them, "Let us make man in our image." It is not that He invites their help, but as a matter of modesty and courtesy, God associates them with the creation of man. This teaches us that a great man should act humbly and consult with those lower than him. It is not unusual for God to refer to His heavenly court (angels) as "us," as we see in Isaiah 6:8, "And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, 'Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?'" Although God often acts without assistance, He makes His intentions known to His servants. Thus, we find "Shall I conceal from Abraham that which I am doing" (Genesis 18:17); "He made known His ways to Moses, His doings to the children of Israel" (Psalms 103:7); "For the Lord God will do nothing without revealing His counsel to His servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7).

A misconception similar to that concerning Genesis 1:27 is held by trinitarian Christians with reference to the verse, "Come, let us go down, and there confound their language" (Genesis 11:7). Here, too, the confounding of the language is related in verse 9 to God alone, ". . . because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth." In this verse the Hebrew verb "did" appears in the singular form. Also, the descent is credited in verse 5 to the Lord alone, "And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower." In this verse the Hebrew verb "came down" appears in the singular form. If a doctrine of plurality of persons is to be based on the grammatical form of words, the frequent interchanging of the singular and the plural should vitiate such an attempt as being without foundation or merit. We may safely conclude that the Bible refutes most emphatically every opinion, which deviates from the concept of an indivisible unity of God.

Chapter 45 of Isaiah, using the Tetragrammaton, unequivocally asserts that the Lord alone is the creator and ruler of all things in the universe. The six uses of 'Elohim in this chapter (verses 3, 5, 14, 15, 18, 21) show that the term 'Elohim is synonymous with the Tetragrammaton, and that both epithets refer to the absolute one-and-only God. The singularity of God, expressed in the first-person singular in verse 12, clearly shows who is meant by the phrase, "Let us create man in our image": "I, even I, have made the earth, and created man upon it; I, even My hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."

As for the Messiah, of him God says, "And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even My servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and My servant David prince among them; I the Lord have spoken" (Ezekiel 34:23-24). The Lord alone will be worshipped as God, while the Messiah, as the servant of God, lives with the people. God and the Messiah are not and cannot be equals, for it is God alone who gives the Messiah power to rule in the capacity of His appointed servant.

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet

"And they created man in their image."

I answered this quote from your link.

If the text read "they" instead of "He" it would imply 3 different Gods. Which is not the case. God always has to be referred to as "He" because He is One.

On the flip side, you and I were made in His image. 3 "persons", yet one!!! Our soul and spirit moves along to either Hell or Heaven when we die, but our body returns to dust. You and I are both 3 "persons" in one, and created in God's image who is ALSO 3 "persons", yet One God.

Precisely what the text states. Precisely why God says "let US make man in Our image." No, He wasn't talking to angels, they cannot create, they are creation. Precisely why 'Elhoim" is a plural word, not a singular one used to refer to a pagan god in numerous places in the OT text.