Stephen Hawking may be right about marauding space aliens

reply to post by Hefficide


Who says they wouldn't be interested or have a use? It seems in every discussion of aliens we assume they are infinitely advanced valley girls who just cruise along not giving a flip.

Look at what humanity is willing to do, we'd use our most advanced technology to send a probe out to some distant moon on the slim chance that we could bring back the most primitive of microbe. Or even more lame, just prove its existence. If we'd be interested in microbes why exclude the possibilities that aliens would be interested in us?

It doesn't have to be 'what goes on in our heads.' I'm not implying that they would be perfectly content stealing a breeding population and watching some soap operas unfold. Its possible that there's a certain level of high-thinking and societal organization that is somehow a resource to them. I don't know how they could technologically exploit that resource, but we're just mentally-masturbating when we opine on any alien technology, so whose to say?

Why not the breeding population? There might be something about our population level or the possibility of our future, more organic advancement on our home planet that ensures them some kind of greater reaping of the crop in the future.

What we have going on in our minds, what it allows us to build is incredibly rare even on earth. There's not 2-3 competing intelligent species (as far as we know). If we assume this level of advancement is rare elsewhere then even if the aliens still dwarf our knowledge, there might be applications to our collective conscious that we're unaware of and they see fit to use.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I see equally few reasons to assume they would be benevolent or curious as they would be hostile. You don't have to be paranoid to imagine a technologically advanced race who is either callous to other life forms or has a hostile indifference.

Slavery, genocide, war. These three things have happened many times in human history on the basis of irrationality, racism, holy-crusade etc. But even assuming aliens have advanced past all of these. The vast majority of all human conflict and injustice has been done out of callousness or an indifference to the individuals who stand in your way.

You don't have to see the aliens as anti-human zealots to imagine our destruction at their hands. You only have to imagine them not giving a sh**. That's not too paranoid.

Although, I do wish i could share your views.

reply to post by Hefficide

Maybe they need rhodium. If it's as rare as it is here, everywhere and they need it, it'd be worth the trip.

Originally posted by snusfanatic

Who says they wouldn't be interested or have a use? It seems in every discussion of aliens we assume they are infinitely advanced valley girls who just cruise along not giving a flip.

I actually hadn't thought of them that way. Now I'm actually hoping that Hawking was partially right. Party girls from space would rock!

Originally posted by snusfanatic

Look at what humanity is willing to do, we'd use our most advanced technology to send a probe out to some distant moon on the slim chance that we could bring back the most primitive of microbe. Or even more lame, just prove its existence. If we'd be interested in microbes why exclude the possibilities that aliens would be interested in us?

One of the things I always force myself to be aware of is that we tend to impress our own self image upon our imaginings of extraterrestrials. Truth is there is no reason to believe that they would even share a similar understanding of consciousness with us. Just because humanity seeks to explore it doesn't mean that curiosity is a universal quality of intellect.

Originally posted by snusfanatic

It doesn't have to be 'what goes on in our heads.' I'm not implying that they would be perfectly content stealing a breeding population and watching some soap operas unfold. Its possible that there's a certain level of high-thinking and societal organization that is somehow a resource to them. I don't know how they could technologically exploit that resource, but we're just mentally-masturbating when we opine on any alien technology, so whose to say?

Why not the breeding population? There might be something about our population level or the possibility of our future, more organic advancement on our home planet that ensures them some kind of greater reaping of the crop in the future.

What we have going on in our minds, what it allows us to build is incredibly rare even on earth. There's not 2-3 competing intelligent species (as far as we know). If we assume this level of advancement is rare elsewhere then even if the aliens still dwarf our knowledge, there might be applications to our collective conscious that we're unaware of and they see fit to use.

Maybe it's because I see mankinds achievements as both positive and negative that allows me to not think of our species as special or rare. To me, humanity is an animal that is good at altering its environment to suit its needs. I can argue that this is an evolutionary dead end. Animals that adapt to their environment, and not the other way around, seem like a more viable solution to the equation to me. You can only alter your environment so far before further change becomes impossible.

This is why I do not usually think of potential alien life as being a lot like us. I don't see it lending well to ideas of progress - at least not sufficient progress to overcome space/time.

Originally posted by Hefficide

Just because humanity seeks to explore it doesn't mean that curiosity is a universal quality of intellect.

It would be a fairly lucky organism to become capable of interplanetary travel without being curious.

I can argue that this is an evolutionary dead end. Animals that adapt to their environment, and not the other way around, seem like a more viable solution to the equation to me. You can only alter your environment so far before further change becomes impossible.

Put another way, we are the peak of evolution.
I don't know if you can say we don't adapt to our environment either, how to you explain skin colour, body types etc in geographical areas? And who's to say we aren't adapting/evolving atm? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't evolution a long process?
Humans are capable of inhabiting every corner of the globe, so I'm not sure what your point it.

I think you have use us as an example it the scheme of thing would you not. look at what we did during the time we were exploring this planet....we come across a more primitive race...we conquer that race...we anihilate them..we take their resources ...and take their land for our own...and we still do that today...now if our explorations in space come across a planet of more primitive race what doo we do...we anihilate them..we take their resources..we then take their land.
Pretty much sums it up for me...so i sure hope that it we are approached it better be by a bunch of much more enlightened beings than ourselves would you not think.

reply to post by Hefficide


While I respect and sometimes repeat the call not to impart human motives/traits on aliens, most of the discussions about aliens invite comparisons.

Often, I like to opine that perhaps the most advanced lifeforms, including what we call God may be closer to plants then some kind of animal-type creature. But when we're talking about 'making contact' its almost impossible to have this wide of a view. The whole idea that aliens are going to come down in their ships or whatever already narrows the inquiry to a certain type of alien. One that's harnessed technology, one that travels, one that is for some reason interested in us or our planet.

So, I'll try my best not to push human-like characteristics off on them. But if this is the scenario that Hawkins envisions when he says 'look out' then we're not talking about 'aliens' we're talking about a specific subsect of all aliens that is already remarkably human like.

I like your view of humanity, its not flattering, but I think its smart. Perhaps the aliens who come here won't have much need for natural resources or have a planet-raping mentality the way we do. But that doesn't exclude my (kinda,sorta, not really a)-theory. A race that seeks to harvest some form of consciousness and can use it for their purposes may be the most ecologically friendly races of all.

As to the idea that we're not that much different then beavers building their dams, therefore why not the beaver consciousness (I know this is a base description of what I think you're saying, but I'll be sure not to use this description to mock), I'd just have to disagree. Of course we alter nature the way other animals do, and we've destroyed alot of it in the process. But there's something higher going on up in our heads. The discussions and art that fills giant concrete buildings is what truly makes us special, not the buildings themselves. So, maybe our current technological state is destructive but we have a philosophical impulse and ability to reason that is extremely valuable.

Originally posted by Hefficide
There's nothing unique or special here.

Water... LOTS of water...

Originally posted by Hefficide

Just because humanity seeks to explore it doesn't mean that curiosity is a universal quality of intellect.

If they didn't have curiosity they would not advance... even my Ferrets have curiosity... and the female collects fancy pens... not the ordinary ones... she gets on the desk and picks the ones she likes

Think the ol boy lost it on this one... Shame he used to be brilliant...

I really am amazed by hawking, I would think that someone of his knowledge would not think that aliens would come here to ... take our resources???

That is likely not the case, for everything..EVERYTHING that is on this planet, is scattered all over the universe, there is NOTHING rare on this planet at all, except maybe us, if we are considered "rare"

Hawking has to know about quantum physics and that we are all conscious beings and that matter interacts with conscious beings, and that we all are intimately linked together.

If they come I would think it would be to speak with other conscious beings because whether you know it or not, we share the same conscious fields that they do, and say traveling to earth from light-years away is not as hard as we think it is, it would not be that big of a deal to them if they decided to come here.

Let me remind you how similar to them we are.

We both were born into this world by our ancestors, we have a mom and dad, they have mom and dad, we have weather/sunrise/set they have weather/sunrises/sets, we have emotions, they have emotions, maybe more enlightened than us but if you were around for thousands of years you would be more enlightened too. We have desires, they have desires, we both are physical beings that brings physical reality from our brains to accomplish what we desire.

Now if you were technologically advanced, and could live forever, and had a spaceship making interstellar travel just like getting in a car and going to the store, what would you do with you life? sit around doing trivial things? or would you travel the stars looking for more conscious people like yourself to study them and nature? That is what I would do

The only part I agree with Hawking on is the fact that alien life elsewhere exists. Other than that, I don't agree with anything he has said regarding this subject. I personally think he has been used as a tool. People know him and look up to him and therefore his word has some meaning, to the general public anyway.

I really do not understand the paranoia people are coming up with. This planet has many resources that are valuable, true - water, gold, helium3 (moon), etc. But it is the cultural heritage of this planet and the message it holds that matters to these benevolent civilizations the most. Earth may not be rare in the vast universe, but there is something about it that is special. And it is not just us living on it and experiencing the nature of duality. You could think of Earth as intellectual property of the ET's. People take this planet for granted and think there is nothing special on it or that we are ignorant microbes compared to the greater races in space. What they forget it, it is not what is on the outside that matters. It is the inside that counts and should be taken care of, because it is still young and fragile, making mistakes, but having potential and hope. If we were a mere 'pain in the ass' as you Earthlings say, we wouldn't be here, not in this form or state. Even the negative entities value us in some way. People should understand that it doesn't matter how you look, it matters only how you act or think. All species can sooner or later live in harmony if there is true will to change things. For now I end this transmission, but please work in the future together to overcome your unknowns and fears. I salute you!

Originally posted by Hefficide
I think if aliens ever did come it would for motives that we might refer to as curiosity.

Sounds about sensible. If an alien species was able to travel light years only to destroy planets, I'd think with such brain capacity they'd be able to control their population and speed up their food production. Who knows.

Originally posted by Cybernet
The only part I agree with Hawking on is the fact that alien life elsewhere exists. Other than that, I don't agree with anything he has said regarding this subject. I personally think he has been used as a tool. People know him and look up to him and therefore his word has some meaning, to the general public anyway.

The black government suit men came to him with sunglasses and said look, we'll clip you down a hill with that wheel if you won't tell the world aliens are evil. Come on.

Stephen Hawking may well be right.... They maybe dangerous scavengers, who would attack us, but more importantly, if they were just a peace loving race, what the hell would they feel like when they saw us??...

They'd look down and this is what they'd see -

Starving millions in Africa, whilst there are Billionaires all over the planet.
They would see;
Miles and miles of tarmac, with polluting 'craft' travelling all over them.
Acres upon acres of beautiful jungle and forest destroyed by us.
Polluted rivers
Child Abuse
Rape an Murder
Banking and Governmental corruption
Tortured animals for vivisection
Cruel and uncaring treatment of farm animals
Animals kept on horrendous farms for fur
Beautiful creatures hunted and shot for trophies
Nuclear Warheads
Chemical warfare
Ethic Cleansing
Greed, Hatred and Anger
etc etc...

What would you do if you found a species like this??? Destroy it or befriend it???

I know what I'd do.....

I'll go along with what I have always thought and say he has a 50/50 chance of being right. Personally I think it is more like 60/40 or higher when you start to look at reasons why a race would be travelling such distances and even if they don't appear to be an immediate threat with bad intentions they still may not be compatible with the Human race on many levels. We have seen in the past what happens when a virus like infuenza in unwillingly introduced to people with no prior immunity.
Frankly I don't understand those who are saying Hawking has lost it or is disinfo. The man makes sense, it doesn't even take a super genius like him to come to those conclusions as I am sure many of you have had the same thoughts as well.

reply to post by snusfanatic


wow what a spin out i was going through the reply's and came to a similar idea about the power of our minds being harnessed turned the page over and found your reply very interesting.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Freedom_is_Slavery

 

Hawking has been compromised. It does not seem like he is himself at this point.

I would not take his word at face value.

I tend to agree with your analysis. I have been reading Hawkings books and lectures for years now, and he has made a remarkable change in "tone" in the last few months. Was it a "sell-out" to TPTB, or did he stumble upon a larger Truth(tm) which frightened him?

I know I wonder.

What makes you all think high intelligence and aggression cannot share the same mind? Hitler was a very intelligent man, a crazy bastard yes, but extremely smart. He brainwashed an entire nation and manipulated an enormous portion of Europe to stand docile in the most cunning invasion of all time, an invasion of words. He invented propaganda and blitzkrieg, the most successful battlefield strategy ever, topping the likes of Napoleon in his battlefield genius. Now tell me, could just anyone accomplish this? No, you would have to be extremely bright.

So, to say that an alien species would be peaceful without a shadow of a doubt, because of their superior intelligence (based on the fact that they can travel at light speed - that argument is flawed in and of itself by the way)... Would be naive and hopeful at best. Hawking is right, we would be wise to avoid ET. The last thing we need is a war with ET...

reply to post by snusfanatic


Is it that you, like many others, assume that 'aliens' are everything else in the universe EXCEPT us?

The word 'alien' means foreign, or a lifeform that it not terrestrial of that particular planet.

So guess what? What do you think mankind is if we walk around on Mars?
Aliens.

What are we when we go to the moon?
Aliens.

So goes the word Human....its not just privy to Earthlings.

The gods (race of advanced beings) that seeded us, could have seeded more like us elewhere.

We are 'Earthling' humans. I think too many times the word 'alien' has a 'E.T", "Predator" or "Grey" conception to it.