Is this 9/11 nonsense going to ever go away? ZERO eveidence but still pushing on!

Originally posted by JohnJasper
reply to post by jfj123

 

Originally posted by jfj123
So what are we supposed to make of these videos?
What are you suggesting?
Thanks.

In my understated way, I'm saying that there is evidence of bombs going off in the towers despite so many protestations to the contrary.

You're welcome!

Just to play devils advocate...Could those explosions be related to flamable substances that caught fire from the original impact fires?

Originally posted by Big Trouble in Little Chi

Truthers are not meant to be speculators... They see the flaws in the official story and search for truth... It is a debunkers trap to lure a truther into speculation... There are a lot of unanswered questions and some major flaws in the official story.

A new investigation is needed to determine the definitive truth.

edit on 16-10-2010 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)

Fair enough.
So who should be in charge of the new investigation? Who should be included in the new investigation?
What happens if the new investigation, comes to the same conclusion as the first investigation? Will you accept the findings at of the first investigation at that point?

The first investigation was so flawed, that no, I would not accept a second investigation that was exactly the same as the first.

Your logic of "what is the truthers official story" is irrelevant, the official investigation has so many holes in it, eventually we may find out what really did happen, but until then come to terms with the fact that you were lied to.

So without another investigation, how would we find out the truth?
And again, who would be in charge of that investigation? Who would you put in charge? What groups would you attach to the investigation?
These are questions that truthers need to answer if they want another investigation.

jfj123:

The real investigation started right after 9/11 and continues to this day. This informal investigation has a much better chance of actually getting to the bottom of things, rather than another investigation sanctioned by co-opted government officials that are really only there to keep the truth just out of view from the general public.

This informal investigation is decentralized and almost completely free of the constraints of academic pressure and career-advancement concerns. This investigation utilizes the resources of millions of people, most of which are generally concerned with discovering the truth.

If you follow the money, all roads lead back to the CIA. The hijackers funding came through Pakistan's ISI, but that same money also appears to have originated with the CIA chief in Dubai. One of the hijackers paid his tab at one of the bars in Florida just before the hijackings with a credit card issued by the federal government. That's our federal government.

All of those short sales and put options on the airlines stock before 9/11 that were never claimed lead back to the CIA.

The vans with the bombs that were discovered on 9/11 in or around the New York area belonged to our friends that we have a "special relationship" with, the Israelis (Mossad). It also looks like they were involved in setting up the charges that brought down all the buildings: however one can argue this last point.

The vans that were found to be filled with explosives and Israelis? Well there's not really any doubt there.

While I could almost convince myself that one building could fall down through the pancaking theory, the idea of all three falling so conveniently should raise a bunch of red flags for most people. However, despite all that, there's one thing that you can't fake with everyone of those buildings that fell. It's those perfect little puffs of smoke that can be seen a few floors below each level as it collapses. It's the same with all three buildings.

I suspect the hijackers thought they were just role playing in an security drill that was an expansion of the military's operation: Vigilant Guardian. If you listen to the air traffic control recordings, one of the hijackers says that there is a bomb on board but the demands have been met and that they will be heading back to the airport.
Well we know that didn't happen.

I also know "the hijackers" got a gun on-board because Daniel Lewin was shot. That seems awfully risky for such a big operation, unless the hijackers felt they didn't have to worry about security stopping them.

To recap, it appears "the hijackers" were role playing for their American employers that diverted money here and there to obscure the money trail a bit. The hijackers were double-crossed by their government employers.

Now remember that the technology to take over the piloting of a plane from the ground IN CASE OF A HIJACKING has been available for about twenty five or thirty years about now.

It wouldn't be the first time a plane was suspected of having its controls accessed from outside, and it leading to an "accident" or even a deliberate crash.

All the public saw were a bunch of evil Muslims terrorists.

Originally posted by nickspm
This informal investigation has a much better chance of actually getting to the bottom of things,

So what has it achieved so far? it was done by holographic planes, mini nukes were used, remote control planes were used, explosives were used, thermite was used, beam weapons were used etc etc. So in fact nothing at all has been achieved!

One of the hijackers paid his tab at one of the bars in Florida just before the hijackings with a credit card issued by the federal government.

No they did not, where do you get that from?

All of those short sales and put options on the airlines stock before 9/11 that were never claimed lead back to the CIA.

Wrong again, it did not

The vans with the bombs that were discovered on 9/11 in or around the New York area

Still wrong, no such vans were found....

The vans that were found to be filled with explosives and Israelis?

Yet another truther lie...

I also know "the hijackers" got a gun on-board because Daniel Lewin was shot

Wrong again, he was stabbed.

Now remember that the technology to take over the piloting of a plane from the ground IN CASE OF A HIJACKING has been available for about twenty five or thirty years about now.

More garbage, such a system did not exist in any US aircraft.

It wouldn't be the first time a plane was suspected of having its controls accessed from outside, and it leading to an "accident" or even a deliberate crash.

Yes it would be, as it is just not possible.

All the public saw were a bunch of evil Muslims terrorists

Well, they are the ones that did it...

reply to post by dereks


well Dereks you have tried the breakdown tactic which seems to be becoming typical...and you know what you did not counter one statment.
That post was well stated Nickspan...thanks for the post...It is right along the line of the thread i have been working on.
Also dereks....Nick did not once mention holographic airplanes now did he....and yes the remote capabilities have been around for quite some time...and the drones that fly into pakistan and in Afghanistan are fine examples of such technology in the operating field.
The money trail is always the best line of attack in any investigation...which is another good point....cause as more and more little bits come together more and more items come to light.
But you are a tryer Dereks.

Just a tidbit

The CIA and Other Deep Pockets

In the immediate aftermath of 9/11 a number of news stories appeared concerning investments in �put� options in United and American Airlines. Put options are shares that are bets on falling market prices for specific stocks. In the week before September 11 put options in United and American Airlines went through a furious and unprecedented spasm of investment. In addition put options for Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch, two of the biggest occupants of the World Trade Center, also saw abnormal activity. Most of the investments in these put options originated in Germany through the Deutsche Bank. Deutshce Bank had earlier acquired Banker�s Trust, a investment banking firm whose Vice Chairman in charge of �private client relations� in the late 1990�s was A. B. �Buzzy� Krongard. In March of 2001, Krongard was appointed Executive Director of the CIA.

just to show the money is being looked at

reply to post by dereks

You can cherry pick the fringe theories all you want to mock truthers. And you can also make definitive statements concerning remote control airplanes with no proof to back it up.

There are many damning facts concerning 911 that are not as far fetched as holograms or directed energy weapons.

The official story does not hold water. As an intelligent person, I think you must know this.
Other than that, I can only assume lack of research, or some other agenda.

I read the OP's post and I dont get the Video. Mistake? Probably!

But she hit the nail on the head with this subject.

Whack...right on the head.

I do not believe the US gov would kill their citizens and THINK they can get away with it.

I too need REAL proof. Unfortunately its all just speculation.

reply to post by MrRed

Three buildings collapsing at almost free free speed because of fire for the first time in history. All on the same day. What other proof do you need?

Originally posted by jambatrumpet
Three buildings collapsing at almost free free speed because of fire for the first time in history.

Wrong, WTC 1&2 never fell at free fall speed, all you have to do is look at a video of them, and it is obvious that they are falling nowhere near free fall speed. Also how many other buildings have been hit by high speed jetliners?

Originally posted by jambatrumpet
reply to post by MrRed

 

Three buildings collapsing at almost free free speed because of fire for the first time in history. All on the same day. What other proof do you need?

Another truther lie....ehem ironic huh? truther...lie?

Regardless of whether you believe the official account or not, you know that 2 of the 3 buildings were impacted and damaged by planes and this impact along with the fires are the reason for collapse. The 3rd building was hit by a building which also caused damage.

So why would you avoid mentioning this? It seems more important for you to perpetuate the "story" then anything else.....wow some truth

Originally posted by nickspm
jfj123:

The real investigation started right after 9/11 and continues to this day. This informal investigation has a much better chance of actually getting to the bottom of things, rather than another investigation sanctioned by co-opted government officials that are really only there to keep the truth just out of view from the general public.

It depends what you mean by "getting to the bottom of things" and what you would want done with that information. In essence, what do you mean by success?

The informal investigation has almost no chance at all of effecting a real change, or of altering people's minds. It has no subpoena power and can really only speculate.

But if you mean that the informal investigation has some chance of self perpetuating itself than I agree with you. Pretty much everything you subsequently mention has no basis in fact or is unproven, and yet is applauded in TM circles and has attained something like common currency.

And yet it's all pretty much nonsense. Or at the very least impossible to prove.

Take Lewin. A passenger said that they thought he'd been shot, but this was unsubstantiated by anyone else. It's likely they made a mistake. Certainly their report exists in absolute isolation, and in some Truther circles is considered to be the product of a voice morphed actor anyway!

Your description of the ATC recording is exaggerated. The Israeli vans remain unsubstantiated. The puffs of smoke don't resemble detonation squibs. The technology to take over a plane from the ground does not exist.

If this is an investigation it isn't one that has a chance of changing anything in any substantial way. But I often think that's probably not the point of it anyway.

Everybody should thank the truthers!
While the people sleep, the enemy plots. We know MUCH more about the enemy than we knew nine years ago. We know that they infiltrate sites like ATS, for instance, to spread lies and ridicule the truth.
The enemy knows that the truthers are having an impact in the realm of public opinion they no longer control. Their propaganda machine, the MSM, is failing and has lost all credibility with an increasing number of people. So, they come here, but you won't see "Peter Jennings" or "Leslie Stahl" as usernames. No credibility.
They attempt to blend in, like agents provocateur, trying to appear "reasonable" while scoffing at any truths uncovered.
But, it ain't working.

Originally posted by Stewie
Everybody should thank the truthers!
While the people sleep, the enemy plots. We know MUCH more about the enemy than we knew nine years ago. We know that they infiltrate sites like ATS, for instance, to spread lies and ridicule the truth.
The enemy knows that the truthers are having an impact in the realm of public opinion they no longer control. Their propaganda machine, the MSM, is failing and has lost all credibility with an increasing number of people. So, they come here, but you won't see "Peter Jennings" or "Leslie Stahl" as usernames. No credibility.
They attempt to blend in, like agents provocateur, trying to appear "reasonable" while scoffing at any truths uncovered.
But, it ain't working.

Just so everyone on ATS can see, this is an example of what happens when a truther gives up. There is not a single argument present. Look closely, no, closer. Do you see it? He hasn't made an argument at all to support his ideas?

Apparently when a truther begins to lose an argument for his case, he resorts to empty claims that all people who fight for the truth that aren't on his side are propaganda agents sent here by the scary government. I'm being paid to come to a site in which people claim highly outlandish claims to post fake reasonable arguments? Honestly, I thought I was being paid to stock coolers and work the grill at food service under my dorms. Maybe I'm just under an illusion, and my secret job is to put doubt into truther minds and deviate them from the true path...

But last time I checked, I wasn't a devil, and you weren't a religious zealot. Stop making claims that people who have opposing views are being paid to be here, and actually support your argument.

Good day to you, sir!

reply to post by jfj123


Obviously your one of those people that need it spelled out for you....

Do your own homework...

p.s. gfy

reply to post by dereks



Apparently you missed the part where I basically said we are sick to death of doing your homework. We have facts, you have questions... (because you can't look up your own answers and facts) ...and one of your questions is, "Show me where Silverstein lied?" Ok.

Larry Lied

Larry's involvement into Criminal activities and the people he's involved with far exceed just this bit of information. If you choose to find out more.. investigate, do your homework, come up with your own OPINIONS BASED ON FACTS not on ego....ty

I won't do this again for you... I just had to make a point. I've been studying 911 since the Winter of 2002. The official version is a lie. Anyone that has done their homework knows this... We the *Truthers* have caught them in soooo many lies and have proven to many facts. If you want to know how we did this... do your homework. =0)

now............... gfy

Originally posted by jambatrumpet
reply to post by dereks

 

You can cherry pick the fringe theories all you want to mock truthers. And you can also make definitive statements concerning remote control airplanes with no proof to back it up.

There are many damning facts concerning 911 that are not as far fetched as holograms or directed energy weapons.

The official story does not hold water. As an intelligent person, I think you must know this.
Other than that, I can only assume lack of research, or some other agenda.

Who in the truther movement decides these are any less valid than other hypothesis' ?
A lot of people believe that holographic planes hit the 2 towers...even John Lear believes this ! So what makes them wrong and you right?

Wrong, WTC 1&2 never fell at free fall speed, all you have to do is look at a video of them, and it is obvious that they are falling nowhere near free fall speed. Also how many other buildings have been hit by high speed jetliners?

A couple of seconds past free fall speed, and that is to be expected due to air resistance.

To have fallen at free fall speed the time would be 9.27 seconds.
So it sould have taken 90 seconds to pancake, the towers fell ten times faster than a gravity collapse.

Quit splitting hairs here.

This topic will never be laid to rest.

Many will die trying...irony.

Twin towers collapsed due to fire.

The other pulled down.

I'm a little more optimistic. I think we are figuring out what actually happened.

Again, follow the money transfers back to Pakistan's ISI that funded 9/11. That links
back to the CIA. The strategic airline stock bets that went unclaimed also lead straight back to the CIA.

You've also got Israelis that were arrested on 9/11 with a van full of explosives. They were sent back
to Israel after being detained but without being charged. So, you've got that definite Mossad angle going.
At exactly the same time as a major military drill is going on in the area. OH YEAH, tell me another one!
lol.

I bet most children can tell the difference between the controlled demolition and a building fire.
For some reason, a number of adults struggle with this distinction. The towers were brought down using
top-to-bottom demolition, which is slower than the free-fall pace of building 7 that was done using
the reverse type of demolition, bottom-to-top.

Take a look at some other top-to-bottom demolitions on youtube.
They are not as common here in the states, from what I can tell.
They look the same as the way the twin towers were brought down.
Again, with this type of demolition, the building falls slower because
of the resistance the building meets below as it falls.

Debris from open windows higher up hits the ground before the building falls
down completely.

Then again we've got the hijackers partying in Florida using their U.S. federal government
credit card to pay the tab.

You've got all the high-up executives that were told not to travel on that day and to
actually reschedule a funeral.

Then you've got the Pakistani ISI individual who was here a whole week before 9/11
meeting with members of Congress. This guy was the one that sent the money from
Pakistan to the hijackers in Florida before 9/11.

You've got that guy that owned the flight school in Florida saying the hijackers didn't
socialize but then there is cab driver that came forward and said he used to drive that head of the school around
with Muhammed Atta to go and hit bars and strip clubs.

Again, it looks like the hijackers were integrated into a bigger drill--that went live--and slightly of course.
Oops. Think about it. You've got these Muslims that like to get drunk at strip clubs then wanting to
die for Allah the next day. No, that doesn't add up.

The cat's out of the bag for anyone awake.

It's fair to say that some things can be learned from Britain about how situations can be manipulated
by the media and the courts to demonize certain groups.



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