Row after Pope's remarks on atheism and Nazis

Row after Pope's remarks on atheism and Nazis

www.bbc.co.uk

He said: "Even in our own lifetimes we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live.

"As we reflect on the sobering lessons of atheist extremism of the 20th century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny."

(visit the link for the full news article)

Another great example of how out of touch with the world the cathloic church is. How can the pope possibly say atheism lead to the extremism of the nazis when Hitler claimed in a 1933 speech to have "stamped atheism out" and banned most athiest orginizations in Germany in 1933.

IMO, this speech is pure BS, but what else can you expect from one of the most secretive and deceitful organization's in the world.


www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Seems like a rather obvious attempt to simplify a complex time. If Nazi's= atheists then atheists = Nazi's, nice n pure n simple. Perhaps he is attempting to distance the church from its well know complicity with the the third reich during the war. It seems hardly credible that the Nazi s were atheists - many have made much of thier occult beliefs and practices, By his same logic the church itself should be stamped out, if the history of catholic christianity is any example.

reply to post by liquidself


And let's not forget the Pope himself was a Nazi, a member of the Nazi youth.

But of course that's OK, because he was only a child, everyone was doing it, blah blah blah.

And there is school of thought that the Vatican was complicit in the fleeing of many Nazis at the end of WWII.

Maybe he should steer clear of references to the Nazis - liley to open up a whole can of worms...

The Concordat between the Vatican and the Nazis, Cardinal Secretary of State, Eugenio Pacelli (later to become Pope Pius XII) signs the Concordat between Nazi Germany and the Vatican at a formal ceremony in Rome on 20 July 1933. Nazi Vice-Chancellor Franz von Papen sits at the left, Pacelli in the middle, and the Rudolf Buttmann sits at the right. The Concordat effectively legitimized Hitler and the Nazi government to the eyes of Catholicism, Christianity, and the world.

I hope this BS statement of his gets thoroughly debunked in the MSM because if not, many will just believe it!

This whole atheism vs theism thing atm seems to be hotting up quite a bit, it almost looks like the pope is setting himself up for a might fall. He must know he's being deceptive surely? Perhaps it's dementia but I doubt it..

I've said it before and I'll say it again, look at his face!!! Pure Evil.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

Row after Pope's remarks on atheism and Nazis

"As we reflect on the sobering lessons of atheist extremism of the 20th century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny."

That is one of the most Awesome things I have ever read.

There sure are a lot of narrow and petty destinies running around out there.
This sentence parses to me as gentle and kind, all he is saying is less tv more life.
Because if someone does perform a public service that miraculously actually does some good
the fact that they are religious shouldn't be held against them.
He didn't mention anything about the atheist push
to teach children to _not_ believe their parents, he only used the phrase atheist extremism.

Of course Secular Corprate Oxford World is currently the reigning high priest of Emotions
so of course we have all been prepped and everything he says burns our ears.
Ohhhh, our instincts are just so peeved off aren't they.

Hehhee.


David Grouchy

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


I'd rather stay an atheist than embrace a religion that embraces the notion of priests and young boys.

That would be my response to the Pope.

Originally posted by davidgrouchy

This sentence parses to me as gentle and kind, all he is saying is less tv more life.
David Grouchy

edit on 17-9-2010 by davidgrouchy because: spelling

No, thats not what he's saying. Your using his quote out of context to defend him. The pope is being outright deceitful with these remarks by implying the nazis were athiests and that athiesm lead to nazi extremism. This is pure BS and propoganda.

Originally posted by liquidself
Seems like a rather obvious attempt to simplify a complex time. If Nazi's= atheists then atheists = Nazi's, nice n pure n simple. Perhaps he is attempting to distance the church from its well know complicity with the the third reich during the war. It seems hardly credible that the Nazi s were atheists - many have made much of thier occult beliefs and practices, By his same logic the church itself should be stamped out, if the history of catholic christianity is any example.

On the other hand the Soviet Union was officially atheist, and I'm pretty sure they are still the reigning champs on how many of its own people a government can off. Then you have the Red Chinese, another big bunch of human rights buffs.

State-sponsored religion never had a great human rights track record, but state-sponsored atheism's is arguably even more dismal.

Someday maybe we'll all stop throwing the blame around at people we don't agree with, and realize we are all humans with the exact same potential for mass psychopathic evil. Demonizing another is almost always hypocrisy. Name-calling in particular is a pretty sure sign of projection (not saying you're doing these things, just saying in general).

Until we come to terms with our own dark sides, looking inward rather than outward for enemies, the cycle of self-righteous human cruely will never end. And let's not kid ourselves, all cruelty is self-righteous (with the obligatory few exceptions, yeah, yeah).

As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. ...And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited."

Adolf Hilter
Source

Do these sound like the words of an athiest? Seems like belief in god is what justified the extremism of the nazis.

My counter point

Even in our own lifetimes we can recall how Britain unsupported by her leaders stood against a Catholic tyranny that wished to eradicate Logic from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Gays, who were thought unfit to live.

"As we reflect on the sobering lessons of Religious extremism of the 20th-19th-18th-17th-16th... century, let us never forget how the exclusion of Rational thinking, logic and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of the universe and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his life."

Originally posted by davespanners
"As we reflect on the sobering lessons of Religious extremism of the 20th-19th-18th-17th-16th... century, let us never forget how the exclusion of Rational thinking, logic and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of the universe and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his life."

Amen.


David Grouchy


We are not supposed to make oneline responses.
And we should never make single word responses.
But I just, lol, can't, stop myself.

Originally posted by davespanners
My counter point

Even in our own lifetimes we can recall how Britain unsupported by her leaders stood against a Catholic tyranny that wished to eradicate Logic from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Gays, who were thought unfit to live.

"As we reflect on the sobering lessons of Religious extremism of the 20th-19th-18th-17th-16th... century, let us never forget how the exclusion of Rational thinking, logic and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of the universe and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his life."

edit on 17-9-2010 by davespanners because: (no reason given)

Simply awsome

Second line.

Firstly, He (like all the others) were forced into the Hitler Youth movement,

Secondly, he never said atheists were Nazi's, simply that more and more often in these times, Atheists actions are becoming SIMILAR to those of the Nazi's who formed views on people because of their views on God (he is just relating to something that britain went through already in history), and how Atheists seem to persecute those who believe in god

He also suggested Atheism was responsible for the slave trade - even though the Church accumulated enormous financial gains from. Remind me, it was the Catholic Church who ruled the practices of the Americas were "ungodly" and associated it to heresy? Accused the Natives of having no soul too.

Christian revisionism is execrable.

reply to post by AmmonSeth


In Meine Kampf, Hitler said he was carrying out the work of the Creator by dealing with the "Jewish problem." Hitler, in his early administration, advocated "positive Christianity" in the German society. So please, the Nazi's never sought to remove God from society. Heck, the Waffen SS even suggested Jesus was an Aryan martyr.

The Catholic Church fears it will lose influence in British politics because we, including believers, accept gay rights and women rights in contemporary liberal society. Religion and equality do not associate on a shared common ground or have any compatible principles.

Ignoring the religious propaganda, atheist seek to restore religion to private worship (in a place of worship or the home) not eradicate it. We believe religion has no place in public life - especially the legislative branch of government. Spirituality, per say, is not the problem - organised religion is.


.

reply to post by davespanners


Here, here.

I salute the honorable gentlemen for his remarks.

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
Firstly, He (like all the others) were forced into the Hitler Youth movement,

Secondly, he never said atheists were Nazi's, simply that more and more often in these times, Atheists actions are becoming SIMILAR to those of the Nazi's who formed views on people because of their views on God (he is just relating to something that britain went through already in history), and how Atheists seem to persecute those who believe in god

Athiests actions are similar to those of the nazi's? Do you have any evidence of such a thing because it sounds like bull?

Athiests persecute those who believe in god? Can you name any one organization that has persectuted more people than the catholic church? I can't.

Originally posted by davespanners
My counter point

Even in our own lifetimes we can recall how Britain unsupported by her leaders stood against a Catholic tyranny that wished to eradicate Logic from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Gays, who were thought unfit to live.

When did we stand against a Catholic tyranny in our lifetime and in what form did this Catholic tyranny manifest itself?

Ratzinger was a 14 year old boy when he joined The Hitler Youth, as all German 14year olds of the day had to.
It is well documented that he refused to attend any meetings.

Ratzinger is duplicit in the cover up of sexual abuse by Catholic priests etc.
For that he should be held accountable in a court of law and I would never contemplate even beginning to condone his actions.
But allegations of him being a Nazi are innacurate at best and downright lies and deliberate demonisation at worst.

He maybe an odious man but let's at least be accurate in why we are labelling him so.