So You Wanna Fight? ATS Debate Tournament (Tournament Update)

Originally posted by The Vagabond
You know I stepped up to carry round one at the last minute and got saddled with the whole damn thing, and it's the biggest tournament we've ever had- I won't even get into magnitude of the priorities that have been causing the delays- suffice it to say that they have merit. So with all due respect to how much more about you may or may not know about the debate forum as compared to me, I say be patient.

I second this and support The Vagabond...there really is a lot that goes into these tournaments...

I suppose whenever the debates reopen I could give this tournament an opportunity. Prior to me giving my word via online text I will need to know as much about these debates/tournaments as possible. If there are any moderators whom would be kind enough to provide me with a link or a detailed summary of exactly how to partake in the debate, what the issues will be regarding, and other important detailed information I would be most grateful.

If it appears to be in my liking I would be more than willing to place my name of this list.

Congrats to MemoryShock, Airspoon, Lord Bucket, and KrazyJethro, who will advance to Round 3 of the senior tournament.

Now unless anybody has further suggestions to piss me off and keep me up late with, I think I'll get some rest so I don't get fired from my new job.

I think the majority of persons aren't putting much pressure on Vagabond, and your work is appreciated. I figure it will all get done eventually, so why worry?

I did have a thought regarding word count ...

Perhaps the word count should go up based on how many rounds? I do feel that many people find the debates hard to read due to the length early on especially, but they would be up for reading an epic championship debate. I doubt lowering the word count in the early rounds would actually damage people's chances of winning.

Perhaps something like ...

Round #1: X characters X Questions
Round #2: X characters X Questions
Round #3 X characters X Questions

This would seem fair on both judges and participants, and I think the more wordy type persons (traveller ) would still feel they can get to the championship and be wordy and such there.

Don't have long but I wanted to pop on and apologize if I went overboard on LordBucket there. I don't wanna go into the details but the things that have been keeping me from getting stuff done recently are very sore subjects and last night wasn't a great time for me to be interacting with other people. I do understand the desire to keep things moving, and they will keep moving, but I may need you guys to bear with me at some points- it's weird and rough times in The Vagabond's corner of the world, and I don't always have it in me to sit down and grind out work, as I'm sure probably goes for a lot of people, both inside and outside the very limited judging pool.

reply to post by The Vagabond


I think you have done a fantastic job on running the debates, for which I know I and many others are deeply appreciative.

I would also like to take this opportunity to congradulate MemoryShock on an outstanding victory and truly memorable debate. I truly am honored and priveleged for the experience and wish him the best of luck and all the other remaining contestants in the upcoming rounds.

Thanks to everyone for making the debates the great experience they are.

Way to go MemoryShock!

Having stepped in when others were sick or simply unavailable and carried this on your shoulders alone, I salute you my friend..

You have done a stellar job..

Congrats Airspoon...you did a stellar job

__________________________________________________________________

To The Vagabond: Basing my Debate Loss on one Judgement only, by a Judge who obviously didnt read my Debate is lame.

I'm kinda surprised really that things are getting kinda heated. I understand member frustration, and it can be vented respectfully. The mods do this for free (as far as I know) and normally at the expense of their free time.

Also, there are often things in the background of organizing things like these (or anything for that matter) that the average joe doesn't know, so let's cut Vagabond some slack.

He's done a good job in uncharted waters in the largest debate tournie ATS has had. If the debate structure should be changed, let it be so in the future when we all have the time to discuss it at our leisure and the mods can take the suggestions and mull them over when they are not terribly busy.

Lastly, let's recall that these debates are to stimulate intellectual discourse and are FOR FUN!!! I learn with each formal debate I do, and more often than not in topics I'd never typically research. They are beneficial and great for some of us nerds to read and think about topics without the lolzorz and omg and venom of much of public forum debating.

Thanks for doing everything Vagabond.

Peace
KJ

Thanks for all the appreciation guys. Sky... I don't know what to tell you man. I like the style and the focus of some judges better than others from time to time, especially when I'm competing, (though to be honest I haven't had time to read every single debate yet personally) but a certain variability goes with the informal and accessible standard of the forum.

I am optimistic about having Junior Tournament Round 1 results by the end of tomorrow, and Senior Tournament Round 3 Matches should be able to go up immediately thereafter.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Sky... I don't know what to tell you man. I like the style and the focus of some judges better than others from time to time, especially when I'm competing, (though to be honest I haven't had time to read every single debate yet personally) but a certain variability goes with the informal and accessible standard of the forum.

I appreciate that, I really do. But there should be at least 2 Judges voting against my side, one is not enough. In all Past Tournaments it had to be 2. And that ONE should have at least read the Debate.

I made sure to make my side as comprehensive and airtight as possible, spending hours and hours on it. The Judge brushes it off without referring to what is specifically wrong with it. That makes me believe he did not read it.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I've been there. Two judges called it a draw, one found for my opponent. It happens sometimes for the same reason as I long ago gave up recruiting more and more judges until somebody gets a two judge lead.

reply to post by The Vagabond


In my case 1 called it a draw and neither seemed to have read it.

Anyway, I ll quit bringing it up now. Thanks for taking the time to look that up.

congrats to all the participants and winners of round 1 junior tournament
was a fantastic round
and now off to round 2 :thu:

Round 3 Debates are up. I'm in the process of handing off the junior tournament to another mod in hopes that it will speed things up a little. The Junior Tournament currently has an odd number of people in it because one match was canceled in Round 1. Therefore we need somebody who has been eliminated from the senior tournament to jump in to fill out the ranks for the junior tournament if anyone is interested.

It is strange to read the judges and mods complaining about the demands of this tourny. It doesn't even seem that they are reading or following the rules they set up. The subject matter they pick for topics are very general and whole libraries could be written about them. Why not narrow the subject matter?

Now here comes the sour milk. In my debate my opponent created long posts only to repeat the same thing over and over and call me a racist. He continually tried to sidetrack the debate and didn't answer questions. He thought he was given a gift by the mods because I would never be able to prove 'Nefarious'. He did not even want to define the terms. Why create rules?

In my debate I was given a very broad subject. I tried to keep it simple and short so people would read. I tried to use the Socratic method and lead people in redefining what is a conspiracy and to take that first step. One of the judges stated that I had a convincing argument and didn't like how my opponent kept bringing up racism. The judge states how I could have discussed more on the topic so he gives the nod to my opponent. Again, as I stated before, a whole library could be written on the subject. A total waste of time.

reply to post by BillfromCovina


know what you mean
one judge of my senior round claimed that i used to few references - i had used about 7 or 8 in the whole debate
my opponent none

so the impression comes over, that it must be very difficult to be a judge

reply to post by BillfromCovina


know what you mean
one judge of my senior round claimed that i used to few references - i had used about 7 or 8 in the whole debate
my opponent none

so the impression comes over, that it must be very difficult to be a judge

Just would like to draw attention to the Airspoon v KrazyJethro debate. In particular, this post. KrazyJethro is labeling his socratic questions with a general header "Socratic Responses & Return Questions:" and then bolding the actual questions, even though they're paragraphs away from the label that they're socratic questions, and he starts his first actual question with "one might also ask" which sort of diminishes the certainty that he's definitely asking them.

On a second read, it's clear that bold means it's a socratic question, but the labeling is such that it could possibly be missed. This debate is turning out surprisingly strong, and it would be sad for the misleading labeling to lead to Airspoon missing the questions, leading to delays and moderators having to clarify and paste responses in at a later date.

So I'd just like to call attention to it. Airspoon..if you're reading this, yeah, I'm pretty sure those are socratic questions. KrazyJethro, if you're reading this...you might consider labeling them a bit more clearly.

Thanks.

Working graveyard shift now. It's a bit unpleasant waking up and eating a heavy dinner then trying to sleep in the morning when living in close proximity to two busy public institutions and it's thrown me a bit further off balance. The junior tournament is still on- I'll either find someone to run it or start the next round during my days off (I work tonight and the next, then I've got two days).

Thanks for bearing with me.