Obama IS the 2012 disaster

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

One of the things I love about ats is getting a little world prospective fom other countries. During the elections our news media showed groups of people around the world watching the US elections in their home countries avidly rooting for Obama. Our US media after his victory also showed people in other countries wildly celebrating his victory. I read earlier this week right here on ats about Obamania (on a worldwide level anyway) starting in England. I'd have to dig back through all the threads I've posted in this week to see exactly where. It did look staged to me, they portrayed the whole world as watching the US election with all the fervor of the world cup.

The worldwide joy in President Obama's election was not staged I can assure you of that. You really have to understand how hated President W. Bush was on a nearly universal scale by the rest of the world, especially Europe.

In the UK, we saw the election of President Obama as the end of a nightmare for the US, and we were quite glad to get rid of W. Bush blaming him along with PM Blair for getting us involved in Iraq. Which was a decision that the people of the UK again almost universally believe to be an idiotic and probably illegal war.

You stated above that it was your country's media that said "Obamania" started in England, not ATS, please get your facts straight and show me some proof on that if you would.

As for the Posse Comitatus revision in the 2008 Defense Authorization, the bill is massive and I don't have the keyword search function on this terminal, but it is in there according to our records at the news organization I work for.

Backlinking from it however I see that it is also linked from the Wikipedia page on the act, so here's that too since it's quite a bit more accessible for the casual reader:
Wikipedia Article Posse Comitatus Act

You're fully welcome to search the 2008 DA if you like, but it may take you some time without a keyword searcher.

Also of note is the 1807 Insurrection Act which provides the other half of the powers to use troops in domestic law-enforcement roles, here's the Wikipedia article on that as well, including a flow chart on what must occur for forces to be used. Also note here too that the 2008 DA revised this back to the original act, thereby undoing the extra ordinary powers granted to the presidency on the issue in 2006.
Wikipedia Insurrection Act

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


read the new link you posted for posse comitatas,it's still a blank check to impose military policing of civilians, and it does mention 20,000 US troops set aside especially for that purpose. If martial law is declared it all goes out the window. Nefarious things are going on here in the US for sure. It's funny that you don't hear anything about Obama since the election,his approval ratings here have dropped through the floor and his unchecked spending has increased our national debt to very nearly the amount of our entire national economy. He promised national healthcare and what he's done is to shortly force everyone to buy insurance from private companies or face a fine. He has passed a bill to make insurance companies accept patients with pre-existing conditions, but those companies can charge whatever they want. so if you have cancer and can't pay $100,000 a month for the insurance you get no insurance and have to pay a fine. An acquaintance of mine who is unemployed just got one of Obama's free cell phones with 250 minutes per month free and this country is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.(he uses the phone exclusively to sell marijuana) and those of us with jobs and our children and grandchildren are expected to pay the bill.

reply to post by abe froman


So you have nothing supporting your contention. I'm not surprised. It sounds to me like your paranoia is doing all of the talking. Martial law has been imposed in the US. It has never been imposed over a large area such as a state sized region.

You also claim that the posse comitatus act has been overturned. I do not believe that to be true. Canyou explain when this happened?

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

read the new link you posted for posse comitatas,it's still a blank check to impose military policing of civilians, and it does mention 20,000 US troops set aside especially for that purpose. If martial law is declared it all goes out the window. Nefarious things are going on here in the US for sure. It's funny that you don't hear anything about Obama since the election,his approval ratings here have dropped through the floor and his unchecked spending has increased our national debt to very nearly the amount of our entire national economy. He promised national healthcare and what he's done is to shortly force everyone to buy insurance from private companies or face a fine. He has passed a bill to make insurance companies accept patients with pre-existing conditions, but those companies can charge whatever they want. so if you have cancer and can't pay $100,000 a month for the insurance you get no insurance and have to pay a fine. An acquaintance of mine who is unemployed just got one of Obama's free cell phones with 250 minutes per month free and this country is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.(he uses the phone exclusively to sell marijuana) and those of us with jobs and our children and grandchildren are expected to pay the bill.

Oh relax, we hear quite a bit about Obama and the United States here in the UK, in fact that's part of my job. Your country isn't teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. You're also completely misunderstanding the Healthcare Reform act and how your economy is recovering (which it is, the process is just slow.) Finally you're no closer from a legal standpoint to martial law now than at any time in the last 200 years.

So the big thing here is simply that you do not like President Obama, and as a political jab you try to link him with the 2012 idiocy. How very trite of you to try to score such cheap political points.

reply to post by stereologist
sep. 15th, 1863 president lincoln imposed congressionaly approved martial law over the entire united states, hawaii was also under martial law for a brief period after pearl harbour. Contrary to popular belief New Orleans was not under martial law following Katrina but US troops and National Gaurd units were used to enforce laws and disarm citizens anyway. Follow the links relating to posse commitatus and you will find that though posse commitatus was restored to it's original wording, the US government has set aside 20,000 troops specifically to police US citizens.

reply to post by ProjectJimmy
our national debt through unchecked spending has reached nearly the size of our ENTIRE economy, if that's not teetering on bankruptcy I don't know what is. Our economy isn't recovering until jobs come back, the numbers were falsely inflated by temporary government jobs pertaining to the US census with those jobs disappearing the numbers are starting to fall back to where they were before the census and when all is said and done we will probably find an even higher unemployment percentage than we expect. This is due to the policies set in place not just by Obama but also the administration before him. I didn't start this as a political thread at all, I started it as a 2012 thread simply to see what others felt about a possible connection between the dec. 2012 mayan calender date and the end of Obama's first term. It was the posters that turned this political and it was therefore moved by ats into the political madness forum. Maybe I don't understand the fullness of the health reform act but I'm pretty sure what I do understand of it supports what I said and I have yet to see my individual statements shown to be false.

reply to post by abe froman


Well done. Lincoln imposed martial law in 1863. The Posse Comitatus Act was passed in 1878. Hawaii was not a state in 1941. In Hawaii martial law was in place for 3 years.

So you found 2 cases during war time, both large wars. Other than war time martial law has been confined to parts of cities, yes or no?

The National Guard is not covered by the Posse Comitatus Act.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by abe froman
Is Obama the kind of maniac that would establish martial law to retain power?

He's not bright enough. He wouldn't know how to. However, if those around him who are using him as a puppet wanted to - they could keep him in power and keep pulling his strings.

Those who run the president are bright enough, however, to know the party's over. Looks like rahm is going to invite himself to be mayor of chicago. I just don't get it..those who are the most corrupt/evil simply assume the position belongs to them? Here's how it makes sense: they know they are politically doomed, and should be hiding in caves, so instead, they become even more gratuitous in their power mongering.

As for those saying m.l. is impossible..that is like saying that the internet cannot be policed. The technology is incomprehensively sophisticated enough to do it. Only a space disaster (the arm of God) could sweep it clean of the weaponry hanging over our heads, to block martial law measures.

reply to post by stereologist
it doesn't matter if martial law was imposed before during wartime or not ,your contention was that it could not be imposed over an area larger than a city. The national guard is mentioned several times in the law and provisions for it's use in martial law are abundant. martial law is a seperate issue from posse commitatas as martial law supercedes it let's not confuse the issue any more than it already is.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by 12voltz

 

one thing for sure, Obama is the worst president we've had since Geo.W.Bush.

I couldn't help but notice the intelligence contained in the above quoted statement.

When you make statements like the one above, it doesn't tend to add any credibility to your threads. As a matter of fact, it's where I quit reading.

Since Obama is the only person to hold the office of President since "Geo.W.Bush" wouldn't it be fair to say that he is both, the best president since Bush and the worst president since Bush?

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

our national debt through unchecked spending has reached nearly the size of our ENTIRE economy, if that's not teetering on bankruptcy I don't know what is. Our economy isn't recovering until jobs come back, the numbers were falsely inflated by temporary government jobs pertaining to the US census with those jobs disappearing the numbers are starting to fall back to where they were before the census and when all is said and done we will probably find an even higher unemployment percentage than we expect. This is due to the policies set in place not just by Obama but also the administration before him. I didn't start this as a political thread at all, I started it as a 2012 thread simply to see what others felt about a possible connection between the dec. 2012 mayan calender date and the end of Obama's first term. It was the posters that turned this political and it was therefore moved by ats into the political madness forum. Maybe I don't understand the fullness of the health reform act but I'm pretty sure what I do understand of it supports what I said and I have yet to see my individual statements shown to be false.

Wow making two foe lists for posting in one thread, that's new.

Alright well you're right about one thing which is that unemployment numbers in the US were falsely deflated by the census, but your belief that the economy is not recovering until job growth returns is absolutely false.

The generally accepted view of a recession is two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth, and that is over, you're back in positive GDP growth. Real unemployment will always be higher than reported than reported unemployment because of how the US records the number, always.

Job creation is typically one of the last things that turns around in a recovering economy. To assume that jobs will suddenly rebound as soon as steps are taken to fix an economy is folly. Other indicators however are starting to become more encouraging, your exports are strong (there was a 14% change in the trade deficit,) corporate earnings are coming back and consumer confidence is returning.

These positive indicators have eased most concerns about a second recession in the US and point that your economy is in a weak but strengthening recovery. This has been enough to push markets higher which is also a good sign because it indicates that there is a return to investment as well.

As for your national debt, again relax, this isn't even the worst the US has ever done as a percentage of your GDP. On top of this there are many countries much farther into the red versus their GDP than you are and they are doing fine, take Japan for instance.

The United States will recover, and all of the doom-and-gloom fringe nutters are going to look quite foolish when it does. However there are proactive steps that you and your fellow citizens can also take to have a better place in life when it does. For instance now is a great time to go pick up a new skill set if you are able or to invest if you can because there is great potential for future gains.

As for your understanding of Healthcare Reform, you are wrong again, the public option is still in the law and competition with it will hold HMOs to reasonable prices. Now I don't agree that it was the best thing for America either, in my opinion health should never be a for-profit industry and a real universal healthcare plan would have been a much better thing. What you've got with the new plan is a lot better than what you had though and it is a good first-step to a really reformed system that will work well, if your country has the political will to do so.

Now as for the intent of your post, I'm going to call bollocks on your defense of it there. You posted directly in a forum about politics, named a political official that you have an ax to grind on directly and stated that he may bring about the end of the world.

Seriously mate let's call this thread for what it is: an attempted political hit job.

Originally posted by davidmann

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by abe froman
Is Obama the kind of maniac that would establish martial law to retain power?

He's not bright enough. He wouldn't know how to. However, if those around him who are using him as a puppet wanted to - they could keep him in power and keep pulling his strings.

Those who run the president are bright enough, however, to know the party's over. Looks like rahm is going to invite himself to be mayor of chicago. I just don't get it..those who are the most corrupt/evil simply assume the position belongs to them? Here's how it makes sense: they know they are politically doomed, and should be hiding in caves, so instead, they become even more gratuitous in their power mongering.

As for those saying m.l. is impossible..that is like saying that the internet cannot be policed. The technology is incomprehensively sophisticated enough to do it. Only a space disaster (the arm of God) could sweep it clean of the weaponry hanging over our heads, to block martial law measures.

It is called Nibiru. it is here to place us in check when we become to evil and corrupt.

Originally posted by abe froman
reply to post by SLaPPiE

 

thanks for keeping an open mind, if you read my posts you would have seen that this thread is only meant to see peoples ideas on a possible connection between Obama and 2012. Since you apparently are of the opinion that the mayans got bored making calenders or ran out of materials( which is the most mundane and least likely senario) you could have simply stated that like an adult instead of responding with"turd" like a 3 year old. please remember that civility is highly prized on ats. thanks for posting.

See my idea on the connection?
Second turd for you.

This has nothing to do with my post on why they "might have" stopped the calendar at 2012. I said it could have been based on known error making it inaccurate that far out. So what was the point.

Really it's the bazillionth anti-Obama thing that grants you these turds. That and the paranoid thinking that went with the OP.

BTW, I am not here to win any civility prizes (what's that prize?:dn

Nope, I'm here to slap on the turds as required (like a 46 yr old), and yours are the first two issued.

reply to post by 12voltz

 

one thing for sure, Obama is the worst president we've had since Geo.W.Bush.

i'm certain the author of that item realized what they were saying...

its the ones with cobwebs in the caranium that do not recognize Dead Pan Humor when it hits 'em in the face like a cream pie

~enjoy~


and in RE to European Obamamania:

When Obama made his rousing speech at the Berlin Tiergarten in July in front of 200,000 cheering Germans, his popularity ratings at home actually fell, especially in the old industrial rustbelt of Ohio and Pennsylvania. He came dangerously close to looking too "European". But the real Europeans loved him for it.

www.alternet.org...

reply to post by abe froman
-

Interesting thought. And right now the MSM coverage of the potential Koran burning is definiteluy inciting tension - albeit religious, not racial, but then add to that the Mexican issue, and Obama's Bill for immunity for illegal immigrants - and you could see the beginning of a Plan.

reply to post by abe froman


As I stated, "well done." You had indeed shown that martial law could be imposed on an area larger than a city.

The Myth of Posse Comitatus

The National Guard, when it is operating in its state status pursuant to Title 32 of the U.S. Code, is not subject to the prohibitions on civilian law enforcement. (Federal military forces operate pursuant to Title 10 of the U.S. Code.) In fact, one of the express missions of the Guard is to preserve the laws of the state during times of emergency when regular law enforcement assets prove inadequate. It is only when federalized pursuant to an exercise of presidential authority that the Guard becomes subject to the limitations of the Posse Comitatus Act.

The ability of the government to use certain armed forces for civilian policing is limited.

Here is your statement from the OP:

Is Obama the kind of maniac that would establish martial law to retain power?

Later on you state:

I hadn't even considered that Obama could use race riots sparked by his defeat to impose martial law and stay in power.

I just don't understand how so many people can ignore the very real threat of martial law in this country. didn't we all see citizens disarmed by the military in New Orleans, the supension and later abolishment of Posse Comitatis?

Again you mention martial law. Then you make the false claim that the P.C. act was abolitioned.

A few posts later you state:

With the recent overturning of posse commitatus, the government can use the military to police US citizens.

Again you repeat the false claim that the P.C. act was overturned.

Then you state the following:

read the new link you posted for posse comitatas,it's still a blank check to impose military policing of civilians

The issue is that the P.C. act does not cover the military. It covers specific parts of the armed forces, but not all.

From the link I provided.

While the act applies to the Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marines, including their Reserve components, it does not apply to the Coast Guard or to the huge military manpower resources of the National Guard.

Finally, you correct your claim about the status of the P.C.

Follow the links relating to posse commitatus and you will find that though posse commitatus was restored to it's original wording

Then you state the following:

martial law is a seperate issue from posse commitatas as martial law supercedes it let's not confuse the issue any more than it already is.

So now we are back to martial law. The only times martial law has been established in large areas was during war time: the Civil War and WWII. In the more recent case, the territory was isolated and in jeopardy of attacks that the rest of the nation did not face. In the first case, the country was involved in a civil war.

The only way that martial law is going to be reimposed is a situation in which the country is involved in a war and there are imminent threats to the areas involved.

reply to post by abe froman


well with iran going nuclear and the upcomming 2012 election iran most likely will have ballistic missiles pointed at the us and isreal...

obama being the antichrist who knows makes me think so how everyone kisses the dudes butt all the time.

i

what i do know is that liberals and democrats are seen as pansies by the rest of the world..

more proof of this is that clinton didnt do anything about the uss cole and kobar towers and the first world trade center attack.

it wasnt until a republican was in the oval office that something happened......

so if a republican wins in 2012 99% chance we will see anther attack on that scale.

if obama wins another 4 years nada.

9/11 style attacks are based on Americans support for war... if support for war and fighting the terrorist drops too much before the transformation of the middle east is complete... you can expect another attack...

reply to post by neo96


It's doubtful that Iran has the ability to been a missile that can hit the US. I could see them hitting US interests closer to Iran such as military bases in the Near East.

2012 always makes me chuckle...but for a brief second when I find it highly eye-brow-raising that the next POTUS election falls on the same year... albeit long after finding out who the next POTUS will be

Oh well. See you in 2013