The US Government Kills Americans - And You Love It

reply to post by bad man incorporated


Having a State leads to more violence.

For example, the State has killed millions in violent wars.

The State has managed to kill far more than the number of people killed in private crimes during the same period.

Since the State can not prevent citizens from murdering each other, we can say that the State simply adds to the number of citizens killed.

If we got rid of the State, less citizens would die violent deaths.

reply to post by romanmel


My owner?
Ha.
Without some social order, you would have nothing. You would be a slave to the real evil that would emerge.
Don't fool yourself.

Originally posted by mnemeth1

(ps. Ron Paul is secretly an anarchist too) but you didn't hear that from me.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

mnemeth - I always enjoy your posts There is still only a minority on ATS that have an understanding of most issues, and while that is the case - those who expose the hypocrisy will continue to be attacked.

I'm not sure RP is an anarchist (as I understand the word) but he is certainly someone who we can look to for leadership and wisdom.

Could you define for me a bit m ore what you are talking about with regard to being an anarchist? I'm fairly interested.

If you could remake civilization - what would it look like?

For context, here are my thoughts on how to organize things.

Drive all executive power down as far as possible - divide the entire world into very small parts, and each area would have its own leadership - selected by whatever means they felt was ok.

Get rid of complex laws - use only common law - courts of justice, instead of law - no legal tricks or anything, no technicalities - everything is admissible, but presented in context. No lawyers, and no rules - just simple justice.

Voluntary militia's - funded by donations.

No taxation at all.

All resources - earth, water, biological, and air belongs to all citizens within a region - damage to any of it must be repaid in full.

For long term planning, create a net site where people can define the future they want - and vote things up and down. Create a steering committee of academics and scientists to try and create plans to reach the goals defined - allow people to view and vote on the plans and idea's.

Remove usury, and fractional reserve banking - use either precious metals for money, or each province or person can create their own money (obviously money is only useful if people value it).

Plenty of other stuff - but there's the basics - what does you anarchy look like?

reply to post by romanmel

I am NE of Indy or Indianapolis,

You seem to have a great deal of patience like you might be working in a home for the aged or a nursery school.

Now lets try this one more time...

Regardless of where you are positioned on the planet at this time, which we have established as near the capital and largest city in the state of Illinois, were you born there?

I am going to assume the answer is 'yes' and move on because I am bored to tears with your deliberately obtuse and pedantic answers.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by bad man incorporated

 

If we got rid of the State, less citizens would die violent deaths.

Okay, I am now confused. Do you mean 'destroy' the United States?

What do you mean by using 'the State'?

Originally posted by For(Home)Country
I would suggest you crack open a history text book. (Or are those corrupted too?)

Simple answer - yes, of course they are. Are you so naive? To really understand history, you need to look not at official, or mainstream sources - you need to get off the track and look not for facts, but for meaning.

Originally posted by Amagnon
Simple answer - yes, of course they are. Are you so naive? To really understand history, you need to look not at official, or mainstream sources - you need to get off the track and look not for facts, but for meaning.

*scratches head*

So, we are no longer using facts?

reply to post by Amagnon


Anarchy looks like people being left alone to do what they want without interference.

In order to understand what anarchy looks like, one must understand all of the evil that comes from having a State.

For example, under anarchy, there would be no such thing as violent drug cartels or gangs. Since everyone would be free to grow drugs or sell them, all the violence around them would go away.

Since there would be no drug violence, the level of violent crime would be very very low just from that fact alone.

This is just one aspect of getting rid of government. - many more violent crimes would also be drastically reduced because welfare dependency would also be eliminated. People would be forced to work and trade with their fellow man instead of exploiting him. This forces people to behave kindly to others or they might be ostracized from society.

First one must clearly see all the violence that come from government before one can see how an anarchist society would function in a modern first world nation.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by bad man incorporated

 

Having a State leads to more violence.

Unfortunately, I fear you have merely attributed the word "state" to collective of a people as a nation who consent to be governed. Why is this unfortunate? Because there are many good "states" out there. There are many good, peaceful, and prosperous nations who's citizens are content with the way things are run for the most part. The government can never satisfy the entire population because populations are so large. Whether you are governing 1 million people or 300 million people, there will always be some form of discontent. However, in some nations the general attitude is contentness. Are we "sheeple", are we apathetic? No, we're not. Sometimes you just have to be thankful.

Perhaps as a self declared Anarchist, you seem to find all the terrible things in life. If you want to live your life like that, that is your choice. However, I for one would find that a rather depressing lifestyle. Now, please don't confuse my thankful attitude with ignorance. No, I am fully aware of the corruption that happens on a global scale in my government and in yours. However, change cannot be met through more violent means (fighting fire with fire doesn't work), but rather education and a more benevolent and selfless people.

Anarchy is the full representation of selfishness, and I would strongly assert the idea that selfishness is the exact ideology of your so-hated politicians.

We do need rulers. Why? Because we are human, and it is in our nature to only care about ourselves, and only caring about ourselves has gotten us into the catastrophic messes of financial ruin, physical ruin, and the ruin that war brings. Anarchy will only produce more of the same, my friend.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

While you are on a rampage against the killer American government, please include a list of all other countries that have killed their own citizens.

Unless you are willing to do so, because it happens, well, then that speaks volumes for your post.

There is no winning or losing here, as all nations can rack up the points you are trying to collect!

I have to interject. Just because other countries kill their citizens, one cannot excuse OUR government.

Really! Like, I could kill someone and then say, "Well, Charles Manson did it. So it's ok, right?"

Let's address the evil in our own home, rather than excusing it based on the actions of another country.

reply to post by For(Home)Country


Who is more selfish?

The man that feels he is entitled to others property without having to work for it or the man who feels he must work for everything he owns?

Children are selfish.

They depend on mommy to provide for them.

Men are not selfish.

They work to provide for themselves.




[edit on 28-8-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by bad man incorporated

 

If we got rid of the State, less citizens would die violent deaths.

I dunno man. You advocate hard against no violence, less violence.
I don't have any problem with that. At all. In fact it is a great message in theory.
It makes me nervous to disband the government that keeps the real violent animals in a cage. That is all. I've been on that side.
It's a lot scarier.

For example. I was raised learning martial arts.Extremely peaceful.
My oppressive beliefs took me to a real dark place. I was able to use my peaceful training to invoke fear and violence on Joe Citizen, cause I felt I deserved what they had, and I didn't. I went way too far.
I express my oppressive decaying societal woes in music now. . I know it isn't anarchical, but it is spreading a word to look around and understand how we live IS wrong. Change your life values. It has to catch on eventually.Violent overthrow will only bring more violence.
But like recycling. One family at a time, in the 80's it was laughable. It has taken some time.......but.....recycling is everywhere.

Dude, I hear your words, and I see what you are asking. How do WE help, without causing more violence? I guess is my question.
I agree with your main beefs, I just don't know how to contribute positively.


[edit on 28-8-2010 by bad man incorporated]

reply to post by mnemeth1

Even though I am a Libertarian in heart and sole, I am in no way naive enough to buy into this fantasy.

Ever hear of the Jonestown Massacre? 900 people fell victim to someone who was promoting a similar ideology to yours. All 900 people bought into the notion that they could build a perfect society without government intervention. As a result of buying into someone's ideal Utopian society, they were lead by their leader to the middle of nowhere and killed.

Very graphic clip:: Jonestown Massacre

Mnemeth1, I completely disagree with your philosophies.

Tax Nazis

I thought this short video was appropriate to add to this discussion.

My father told me something very interesting when I was a young girl. He fought in the Korean War and he really didn't talk much about what he experienced, but he told me, while he was in North Korea, everyday a voice would come over the PA system and give very personal information on each soldier. They knew every detail about every soldier that fought in that war and used it for psychological warfare. I don't think he thought about HOW North Korea obtained the information on every American soldier. How would North Korea have personal information on every soldier, unless that information was passed onto the Soviet Union by the American military. If a person was to delve deeply into the experiences of our own military and what choices were made, they might find more than they bargained for and see a different picture. I know some others came to the same conclusion. This isn't something you'd find in any history book.

reply to post by mnemeth1


Accusing people of loving deaths from prior wars, some of which they weren't alive yet to live through, is pathetic.

reply to post by mnemeth1


Children are indeed selfish. But so is the man who cannot share. We were born selfish and it takes a conscious effort to deny the selfish human nature that is engrained into us. It helped us survive. But we are much more than simple creatures struggling for survival now. We are advanced, caring people. (Or at least some of us) who recognize that there is a need beyond our own out there.

Anyhow, I'd love to see the anarchists bond together and fund the programs that keep our "lifestyle" alive. Would you like to fork over a billion dollars to build that nice highway that runs from your house to your work place? And how about those disabled, elderly, and unemployed that require your tax dollars to survive? Kill them? Force them to find work like you stated in your other post? Encouraging the unemployed to find work is one thing, but forcing those who cannot even work properly to find employment is the true violation of rights, not forceful taxing.

Anarchy will never work, just like fundamentalist communism. Anarchy sounds good to the rebellious 16 year old teenager who just hit puberty and hates his parents, but to the rest of the rational crowd, it makes next to no sense.

[edit on 123131p://666 by For(Home)Country]

reply to post by Onboard2


They didn't know every single soldier in that war... They would use generalizations just like physcis use to tell you your fortune. The Viet Cong did the exact same thing. It's called propaganda warfare. They would tell the soldiers that their generals don't care about them, that the war was over and they had lost, etc etc etc.

you are telling me that some North Korean soldier would get on a PA and know which soldiers were near by?? That makes absolutley zero sense!! Once again you are mistaken and it obviously got to your father if he believed that they knew every soldier....

Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Even though I am a Libertarian in heart and sole, I am in no way naive enough to buy into this fantasy.

Ever hear of the Jonestown Massacre? 900 people fell victim to someone who was promoting a similar ideology to yours. All 900 people bought into the notion that they could build a perfect society without government intervention. As a result of buying into someone's ideal Utopian society, they were lead by their leader to the middle of nowhere and killed.

Very graphic clip:: Jonestown Massacre

Mnemeth1, I completely disagree with your philosophies.

I'm not sure how government would have prevented Jonestown any more than it prevented the Hale Bopp nutjobs.

Therefore I fail to see your point.

People are calling the OP anti-american for this? I don't think so, this is showing how evil the elite truly are. And when you ask and cry, but why didn't you write about Stalin or Hitler, because damnit we live in America and these are our countrymen that have died needlessly. Of course it's sad what other Governments do to their people but damn the light needs to be shined on how currupt our owners really are. There has been a war on for life and liberty for a very long time and these numbers dont even show the soft kill methods that have been used for decades. Good Post S&F. Its time to wake up to the fact that our Government is the true terrorist and all flags need to be waving upside down because if this isn't an emergency I dont know what is. Just because they havn't came out and said they are killing us doesn't mean they're not. Well they have you just have to know where to look. I am only 28 and I see what has been happening and it is going to take alot of heart and work to clean up the disaster many of you old timers left laying around because you only cared about a $buck$ and judged everyone by what they had in their garage. The first question you ever asked people to find out what type of person they were is what do you do, what is your job, like that defies a person. It's time to realize you have been duped,...now admit it, pull your head out of your ass and help the truth to prevail. Time is almost out! Pull your pants up from around your ankles, get out from in front of daddy governemt/corporation and stand up to being taken advantage of. DaMN how much will it take? The information is everywhere, the writing has been on the wall, now use it to spread the word that good people are being hushed and evil is controlling all aspects of life. And YES the U.S. has been killing it's very own citizens for a very long time and plans to do alot more, just read their very own documents.