Christian terrorism.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


In my humble opinion.

A fanatic is a fanatic, be they Muslim, Christian, Pagan or whatever.

Personally, I believe ALL RELIGIONS were constructed to control man and squash his/her true spirituality.

So many wars, so much bloodshed, so much division all in the name of "god".

I'm so tired of people trying to shove their religious dogma down everyone's throat all in the name of salvation.

Mindless, unquestioning sheep, trying to dictate what everyone should believe all in good faith.

That is exactly what the puppet masters want, blind obedience.

Makes the cattle easier to control.

So easy not to have to question or think for yourself.

We are all grains of sand and "god" is the beach.

reply to post by Wildbob77


However, you have almost daily Muslim terror attacks. You had a suicide bomber in Iraq just take out 50-60 police recruits.

That's an act of "terrorism" by US/western political and or self serving MSM definitions... others might see that as freedom fighters or patriotic Iraqis targeting legitimate targets.. rats, collaborators, traitors, future enemy assets.. etc..

.. a quick google definition:

Terrorism: the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

When it comes to organized religion imo the old adage "all things in moderation" applies.. if worshiping a particular invisible wo/man and or letting some book choose ones values / opinions is someones personal & private thing... if it makes them happy & respects others personal space, awesome... go for it.

As soon as a behavior stops being personal and starts affecting strangers.. like when rabid zealots conspire to cease minding their own business and go Rambo.. it's a bad thing, and annoying... regardless of which hat their flock commander wears.

The western world has been brainwashed into believing Muslims are terrorists. I'll give u a good example, if someone of middle eastern origin was to carry out an attack on the US military (Not civilians) they would immediately brand him as a terrorist. On the other hand if it was a South America, Asian, African , They would be branded as Guerrillas or Gang members. On the other hand if we were as empty minded as a majority of the population that's still asleep we could also say the war in Iraq/Afghanistan is Christian terrorism. After all Bush (both of them), B.O, Reagan are/were all supposedly Christian. At the end of the day Terrorism has nothing to do with religion, but rather individuals or minorities.

reply to post by Serizawa


I remember when the Virginia Tech shootings occurred, the first thing everyone speculated about and even looked for was whether the shooter was a Muslim. Same with most other incidents of the type. It's become almost reflex or conditioning.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Serizawa

 

I remember when the Virginia Tech shootings occurred, the first thing everyone speculated about and even looked for was whether the shooter was a Muslim. Same with most other incidents of the type. It's become almost reflex or conditioning.

I was about to bring that one up, But it seemed a little harsh to use it as an example . glad we are on the same wave length on this subject.

GovtFlu

Terrorism: the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Then every single damn president is a terrorist! lol..

[edit on 19-8-2010 by Serizawa]

[edit on 19-8-2010 by Serizawa]

Can we add a list of Non-religious terrorists to this... just to make it fair? Green Peace, Earth Liberation Front, PETA...
Hitler, Stalin and Zedong all wanted non-religious utopias... look how they attempted that. Some of the worst Genocides in history.

PETA has terrorist history.
Catholics in Ireland.

reply to post by brutalsun


hmmm. Now it seems we might be getting the idea. Any belief that someone holds dear, and not just religion, can be used as justification to inflict terror on others. When every attempt to force an ideology onto another fails, some believe it is alright to resort to violence. Some people feel so passionate about their cause or religion that they do their best to incite others to use any tactic they can to scare the world into seeing it their way.

reply to post by Serizawa


Well here's another thing this line of discussion is making me wonder about.

Whenever a terrorist act occurs, one of the first first things people, particularly here at ATS, jump on is the possibility of the perpetrator being a a controlled or triggered subject.

I would assume this has probably (?) been discussed here to some degree or another in regard to Islamic terrorism but if it has, I've missed it. I think it's a very real possibility that some if not all of these people are controlled.

We know that the CIA uses members of terrorist groups to achieve certain ends, so why not discuss that aspect of it more? In addition, even if it's not the CIA, maybe it's someone else doing the controlling.

Religion and religious fanatacism makes a person more vulnerable to radicalization by anyone, not necessarily just by other religions fanatics.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


IN MY OPINION:

Well its difficult to tell what/who controls these groups/individuals. IMO the C.I.A and other intelligence agencies have to be the major culprits. Forming groups such as Al-Qaeda, originating from the term Qa'ada....meaning....believe it or not...THE TOILET BOWL!. Most of their leaders are just make believe characters such as Osama (Tim Osman), Adam Yahiye Gadhan/Azzam Al-Amrika (Adam Pearlman)...etc most of whom are double agents. Al-Qaeda was funded and formed by the C.I.A in 1979 for 'self defense purposes'. Then you have organizations such as Hammas that were funded by Tel Aviv in the 1970's, Al shabaab has ties with Al-Qaeda etc etc. Then there's the notorious CIA drug smuggling. IMO they are using terrorism as a means of evading suspicion when occupying foreign regions for financial and political gain. They are working with the governments....and they are all playing good cop/bad cop. They are one and the same, brainwashing the public into believing there is a war on terror when the same people trying to stop 'terrorism', funded it.

Sorry for the bad grammer, spelling mistakes! im exhausted.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by Trueman

 

What are you trying to say ?


@ Chuber

I will gladly take as my burden in the argument all the sins of the Christian Church if you will bear all the sins of secular humanism.

Sins ?

I should have put 'sins' in quotes with regard to secular humanism. It's important when considering 'religions' to define the playing field in equal terms so as to compare apples to apples. That is why I am much more fond of arguing philosophy with people since I would place the best of Christian philosophy at the top of the metaphysical food chain and be able to support it against the 'fruits' of secular humanism quite easily.

Most people are relativists with a shallow understanding of the concept of absolute truth. There is a hierarchy of human thought and as such some thoughts a intrinsically 'better' than others.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by Serizawa

 

I remember when the Virginia Tech shootings occurred, the first thing everyone speculated about and even looked for was whether the shooter was a Muslim. Same with most other incidents of the type. It's become almost reflex or conditioning.

Thats a natural question really given events of late.

Originally posted by B3lz3buth
reply to post by chuber

 

To say that a human institution that has spanned the globe for two millennium has done evil is to say that it is a human institution but to remain willfully ignorant of Her great benefit to humanity is to also display one's ignorance of history, philosophy, science, education, art, politics and, most importantly, the concept of charity toward one's fellow man.

This is valid argumentation and i never said religion have done ONLY bad things and are total evil.


Considering abortion like a crime against god ? is it really better to give birth to a child coming from a RAPE ? or a child with know birth defect who can never have a normal life, putting a enormous amount of financial and sentimental pressure on parents and relative? in an already full capacity overpopulated world ?

Maybe in some case abortion is the best for both parts ?


This is a whole other can of worms but suffice it to say, every time I have opened this philosophical discussion with people it ends one of three ways:

1 - They refuse to examine evidence citing its 'inflammatory' nature or claim it is 'not real' or refuse to directly answer my questions and try to get out by 'agreeing to disagree'

2 - They admit to defending the position that it is philosophically okay to deliberately and willfully kill another living breathing human for the emotional or psychological well being of another.

3 - They amend their philosophy.

Most defenders of the practice of abortion use emotional arguments while the opposite stance is scientific and philosophical.

It usually starts with the question, When do humans have the elective right to kill another human?

[edit on 19-8-2010 by chuber]

[edit on 19-8-2010 by chuber]

Originally posted by Faiol
this site you can only find HATERS

thats why a few people flagged this thread

they dont want to admit their own beliefs can be corrupted

its easy to talk about someone else's beliefs ... right?

haters

The point of the threat hasnt been established as a this then that sort of thing.

And look what some do....go back an attack the foundations of western culture because its influnced by christianty. But a long line a terror actions like vest bombers just cant be found. So national wars have to be superimposed onto christainty as if this is our national weakness and flaw. When the truth is most of the wars we have fought would have had to have been fought...christian nation or no.

Besides it is never the nature of war to be of a static neutral generic act without ideoligical underpinnings whatever side one is on. If you will notice of late over the last 50 years the west and the US have had all of its ideas that would lead it to war of any kind, including its ability to make war, to defend itself and others even, attacked without let up. This in itself has been a war of the mind. It has been well established that the US looks to the favor of the Almighty to aid her in war.

So they want to roll the God dice? Let them roll it. They serve a weaker god if one at all and will make war on us to their own destruction. Do they want to fight an idea war? They should lose that as well.

List of United States, CIA-FBI Double Agents or Operatives

1. Humam Khalil Abu-Mulal al-Balawi

Balawi was from Zarqa, the same Jordanian town as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the infamous leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq who tormented the US military and Bush administration until his death in 2006 with a terrorist campaign that inspired militants around the world and made him a rival in influence to Osama bin Laden.
Balawi, who was also known as Hammam Khalil Mohammed, died last week aged 36 when he detonated explosives at a CIA forward operating base, Camp Chapman, in Khost, eastern Afghanistan in a suicide mission.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

2. Michael Meiring, California

Attempted to set up explosives to blow up Evergreen Hotel, Davao City, Philipine

www.mathaba.net...

3. Nada Nadim Prouty

Emigrated to United States from Lebanon in 1989. She was given U.S. citizenship five years later and began working as a special agent at the FBI's field office in Washington

Charged with security breach.
www.cbsnews.com...

4. David Coleman Headley

Helping Pakistani militants plan the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks which killed 170 people.

Pleaded guilty
www.washingtonpost.com...

5. Ali Abdul Saoud Mohamed

Embassy bombings in Nairobi and Tanzania.

Pleaded Guilty
en.wikipedia.org...
www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2001/11/04/MN117081.DTL

List of British Intelligence operatives
6. Haroon Rashid Aswat, Bristish M15 Operative
Mastermind of 7/7 London Bombings
officialconfusion.com...

7. Alfredo 'Freddy' Scappaticci, ( Stakeknife )

Take part in up to 40 murders. He is said to have been involved in the killings of loyalists, policemen, soldiers, and civilians to protect his cover so he could keep passing top-grade intelligence to the British. He also kidnapped, interrogated, tortured and killed other IRA men suspected of being British informers.

www.courtsni.gov.uk...
cryptome.org...





I will continue to research and gather the list including the Israeli Mossad.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

Other Resources :
Britain "apologizes" for terrorist act in Basra
www.globalresearch.ca...

Former CIA Agent Tells: How US Infiltrates "Civil Society" To Overthrow Governments by Phillip Agee.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

CIA Agent Sees Dead People by Peter Chamberlain
atlanticfreepress.com...

Mossad Agent killing Oz Tourists to steal their identity to use in fake Al-Qaeda operations
hubpages.com...




[edit on 19-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

[edit on 19-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

This is an extremely interesting thread - one which has significant input to a thread that I'm working on.

I will reference this thread if that's ok?

The main meaning of terrorism in the dictionary refers to GOVERNMENT terrorism, which is still the most common form of it today.

I think that everyone needs to remember that terrorism in the name of religion isn't terrorism. When acts are committed in the name of religious conviction, be they violent, dangerous, damaging, sadistic or whatever - they are nothing but VIOLENT EVANGELISM / PROSELYTISATION.

We don't see suicide bombers declaring "In the name of Syria I blow myself up to kill you!". We DO see them declaring "In the name of Allah / Jebus / Bing Crosby I blow myself to become a martyr to my religious cause."

So you see - TERRORISM is never normally religious, VIOLENT EVANGELISM OR PROSELYTISATION is!

Where is the logic in blowing yourself up for something that may or may not exist? Can you deny the logic that a government, in order to stay in power, would employ terrorist tactics?

If the religious aspect is illogical, and the terrorism side perfectly logical, elementary declares that Religion is an irrational mental state - and Terrorism, being perfectly rational, is a tool employed by governments and corporations everywhere.

The logic is simple - the two are wholly seperate.

Parallex.

reply to post by Parallex


Yes, couldn't agree more. Hopefully with such information, ATS members will no longer adopt 'Ignorance' attitude. It's time to put back ATS conspiracy meter where it belong.


[edit on 19-8-2010 by EasternShadow]

reply to post by Logarock

The point of the threat hasnt been established as a this then that sort of thing.

I'm sorry ?

This thread is going as planned. My intention was to show terrorism isn't a Muslim thing only and that there is a reason for these terrorists to do what they do.

What is that reason ?

reply to post by brutalsun


Yes you can. But I do not think they are very similar.