What Pike Meant (even though you won't believe me)

reply to post by daddio

"...and even IF the 33rd degree or 32nd degree Mason was to believe they have been enlightened, how do they really know for sure?

For sure is the key word, how do any of us really know anything?

It's all about control, and none of us here will ever have it over the vastness of the earth, and neither will the Elite. "

How much more can you contradict yourself with only a few lines? You make a post with blanket condemnations, then this says that NOBODY knows for sure? So why do you state state/imply that YOU know?

You state that you dont believe/ rely on webites for you opinions, then you quote info from several of the most dubious!

You also post that the world is under Masonic control, then at the end of your post you state that NO ONE has control ! Your contradictions of yourself ruin any credibility that you may have. You dont seem to be aware of what you have said moments earlier. Im not trying to come off as snarky here, just amplifying the points that you have made. Critical thinking, please?



[edit on 8/13/10 by scooterstrats]

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
I am no mason, and have no friends who are. but i know many, many masons. Rarely are they anything other than outstanding citizens, from my personal experience.

Ah, so you finally found them? 'Cause back in May you didn't even know about the lodge in your town...

I work in an industry that has a highly transient customer base. I meet lots and lots of people who aren't from this town.

But i have seen both lodges yo pointed me too. One i thought was an abandoned building. The other (downtown) is a place i never go (it is full of abandoned buildings, too).

Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled;

to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it. So God Himself incapacitates many men, by color-blindness, to distinguish colors, and leads the masses away from the highest Truth, giving them the power to attain only so much of it as it is profitable to them to know. Every age has had a religion suited to its capacity.

The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is known as the Bible. To most who read it, it is as incomprehensible as the Sohar.

So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray. There is no sight under the sun more pitiful and ludicrous at once, than the spectacle of the Prestons and the Webbs, not to mention the later incarnations of Dullness and Commonplace, undertaking to "explain" the old symbols of Masonry, and adding to and "improving" them, or inventing new ones.

To the Circle inclosing the central point, and itself traced between two parallel lines, a figure purely Kabalistic, these persons have added the superimposed Bible, and even reared on that the ladder with three or nine rounds, and then given a vapid interpretation of the whole, so profoundly absurd as actually to excite admiration.

source

It seems to make much more sense when we read the whole context Pike was saying. He is describing all religions and relating masonic ideals to them.

reply to post by network dude


Is it better that the unworthy twist the truth they cannot grasp into confusion and/or disinterest, or to twist the parable they can grasp into atrocities? Twisting it into absurdities that lead to atrocities is a pernicious and malevolent act. It doesn't matter if Jesus did it or if Pike did it-- same thing. Anyone with any sense knows what becomes of it once you provide a concrete basis for indoctination.

So, from whom is the actually message really concealed? The interested that also wish to misuse it? The Book of Eli did illustrate that idea for the masses to ponder but I already knew it. If they can't misuse the truth, I suppose they'll misuse the lies to the same ends.



[edit on 8/14/2010 by EnlightenUp]

reply to post by daddio

I mean I know he fought against Union soldiers, but where do you get that he killed women and children? Pike was cleared after the war.

Its not a crime for non-Masons to read Morals & Dogma. Its open to the public. Its a book on his opinions of the Scottish Rite and nothing more. Morals & Dogma is not the actual ritual.

John Quincy Adams got caught up with the Morgan Affair which fueled his hatred for the Freemasons. As all are, he is entitled to his opinion, and from the turnout of the next Presidential election, the country didn't necessarily follow his anti-Masonic beliefs as Jackson was elected, a Mason.

Masonry is not luciferian. Masons only seek enlightenment in hopes to better themselves.

Freemasonry's history is shrouded in mystery and lost with time. As we know it today, Freemasonry started in 1717 in London, but if you read the Regius Poem (Halliwell Manuscript) Freemasonry started in 926 AD in York. The Vatican has no control over the Freemasons, every body has its own hierarchy, and each jurisdiction is sovereign unto itself. It is not politically driven, and politics is something to not discuss in Lodge (or any body really) as we are made up of men of varying beliefs, and this could possibly cause discord within the Fraternity.

That's nice you have access to Masonic books, but its not some great secret you have as anyone can get those books. They are not private or anything.

What you see as secret, we see as private. Its a sad world we live in when people think they are entitled to everything. I really hate this entitlement generation we live in, especially when some would encroach on my right to privacy. Nowhere have we ever said we think the public is ignorant.

reply to post by Violater1

So you think Pike is equal to those despots?

reply to post by EnlightenUp

Pike was never involved with the KKK. Not with the founding or rituals. If you are serious about your accusation, you'll post your source.

reply to post by harryhaller

Pike is only relevant in the Scottish Rite for the most part. That's what most of us are trying to say. When you try to tie him into the Craft Degrees (Blue Lodge) you're showing your lack of understanding of Freemasonry.

reply to post by aMason

The local Valley does a 2-day reunion, usually on the same weekend.

reply to post by daddio

A lie repeatedly said is still a lie. Just because you keep hearing that Pike committed some atrocities doesn't mean its true. From what I'm seeing is that you can't prove your assertions.

The Vatican funded the South? That seems a little weird as Catholics were not really welcome in the States for a long time and the Catholic Church doesn't hold Freemasons too close to their heart.

Freemasons control the world? lol. We cannot even agree on what to have for dinner, and you expect us to control the world? So Freemasons are connected to big oil? Proof of this is where? And where is your proof that the Freemasons interfered with Tesla?

And you think that Hitler and the Nazis were in good standing with Freemasons? Read these:

Nazi Persecution of Freemasonry

The Annihilation of Freemasonry

Famous Anti-Masons

My own Grand Lodge was the first to denounce the actions of the Nazis.

Being a Luciferian I admire Albert Pike for upholding the Luciferian Doctrine!!

Although he did some atrocious things he is still someone i find interesting and his life was full of adventure.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

Pike was never involved with the KKK. Not with the founding or rituals. If you are serious about your accusation, you'll post your source.

I thought I sufficiently explained my reasons in other following posts.

I was talking the language (tweet, tweet) and putting spells on all of you.

I know it's unsubstatiated with primary sources and seems to originate from a couple old books about the KKK.

reply to post by EnlightenUp

Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it. So God Himself incapacitates many men, by color-blindness, to distinguish colors, and leads the masses away from the highest Truth, giving them the power to attain only so much of it as it is profitable to them to know.

Here he is talking about giving too much power to any one person being bad. God himself is against tyrannical power. (how he knows this, I am not sure)

Again, remember this is one mans opinion of masonry and the world around it. I also have a feeling that Pike was involved in politics and had been trained in the ways of a leader. Do you know any leaders in politics that are completely transparent? I only know of one who claimed to be, but he lied too.

Sorry I snapped at you earlier. When I see someone who has debated well go down Stupid St., it makes me want to smack them. You were poking the badger with a sharp stick, and I misread your intentions.

Originally posted by L1U2C3I4F5E6R
Being a Luciferian I admire Albert Pike for upholding the Luciferian Doctrine!!

Although he did some atrocious things he is still someone i find interesting and his life was full of adventure.

I know what you mean. Being a one armed wall paper hanger myself, I am always amazed at how busy I look like I am.

where is my troll spray?

reply to post by network dude

Sorry I snapped at you earlier.

Hey, no problem. I didn't really feel any snap though, since I'm not really here to receive it.

Obviously, concealment and misdirection certainly aren't only Pike's modus operandi.

I have seemed to notice a loose correlation-- and I could be wrong-- where the less parabolic and/or hyperbolic the text used as a vehicle for the mysteries, the less commonly it is used and less useful it is in the sewing of conflict, disagreement and suspicion.

In other words, the less diluted, the fewer the number that attend to it anyway. If they aren't "worthy" of it or "ready" for it, it's not even possible to suggest or force them to take interest.

So, the need to heavily encode and misdirect seems to indicate a controlling mindset in order to enable the mass-supplementation of the energies of the essence of the entity disseminating the material. The major exception is when the experience is so utterly esoteric that anything one says about it is coded and a lie, but that says more about the general level of consciousness of humanity and its concomitant ability to express certain higher thoughts in language than that of malice.

if what you quoted is his true expression he gets flack because in any religion revelation carries a burden; and his statement is less about the context within its parameters and more about the parameters his context is but a subject to.

Originally posted by harryhaller


That's the most fallacious argument i've ever heard.

How is it fallacious? They were both saying the same exact thing.

There is no comparison between Pike and Jesus.

They were both expounding on the mysteries to initiates. The comparison is obvious.

And in fact, from my perspective they seem diametrically opposed.

How would that be?

Originally posted by daddio


Unfortunately I am not privy to the names of the dead of the civil war era. But it has been repeatedly stated that Pike cared not for who was killed that would stand in the way of "his" work.

Then let me refresh your memory. Pike's job as a general was to *protect* Confederate citizens from the *Union* invasion. It was the Union Army who were guilty of killing Confederate civilians, not vice versa.

Who paid him? I would assume the Vatican, as they supplied money and intelligence and manpower to the south.

Hogwash.

reply to post by scooterstrats


No degree or honor bestows enlightenment on any person. A person must pursue that goal on their own.

There are many paths but just like no one can 'give' you the secrets nor can they give you enlightenment.

reply to post by emsed1


thanks..

I needed a laugh..

reply to post by reeferman

So you're not going to try and argue it? That's what you're bringing to the table?

Originally posted by emsed1

Question: Doesn't Albert Pike speak for the whole of Freemasonry?

He might as well have. It would have been irresponsible for a man in his position to make damaging statements about Freemasonry (being a past grandmaster of the 33 degree council).

Question: Isn't Morals and Dogma the authoritative work on Freemasonry?

Obviously not, since it's apparently too long to read.
It was for a long time, and this only changed after Albert Pike became a "whipping boy."

Question: Isn't Pike saying that Freemasonry is a religion?

Albert Pike wasn't the only person to refer to Freemasonry as a religion

Question: Why would Freemasonry conceal anything? Isn't the purpose claimed to be to bring people TO light rather than lead them away?

A better question would be: "Could the secrecy practiced by Freemasons be abused towards nefarious ends?"

Anyway, in my opinion, Pike was trying to explain in the language of the day why Freemasonry does what it does.

It is unfortunate that his writing style doesn't translate well with our modern way of communicating.

Actually it is - if you call the renaissance fair modern communication

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Pike was partial to the KKK and said that he would like to create a group similar to it. It's been claimed that he was the Grand Dragon of the KKK. Regardless, he was a known racist, and he only fought for the rights of Native Americans so he could steal their rituals.

Originally posted by daddio
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

What many have not investigated was Pikes murderous ways. He was a liar and a thief and a murderer of woman and children, but that is war isn't it? Abraham Lincoln himself declared Pike a criminal.

He was not only a criminal, he was a coward and defected during the Civil War.

Maybe you Masons should read John Quincy Adams, "Letters on Freemasonry", might enlighten you a bit on what you think you know.

The Masons on ATS have probably read them front-to-back and still pretend that anti-Masons are the boogeyman hiding under the bed.

Masonry is luciferian, but is that a bad thing? You can not have a God without an adverse entity, maybe it is God who is bad and Lucifer is good?

That is pretty much what Venus represents in the Illuminati -- that good is bad, and bad is good.

Where did freemasonry start? With stone masons. Where did it all go horribly wrong? With the Vatican. They saught control and wealth by selling the idea of a secret society. Then it went political. It should have stayed a guild of craftsmen and not a bunch of politically driven, lunatic elitists.

The Freemasons began to allow aristocrats with deep pockets to enter the lodge in order to raise funds, because after the Protestant movement Catholic-style cathedrals were no longer in demand. The operative masons were then kicked out, and occultists were allowed to take their place.

I am a craftsmen, but would NEVER join a "lodge" just to "fit in" or be "one of the boys". I have better things to do. But I have researched the subject quite deeply. Texx Marrs has an entire library of Masonic books. From Richardson's Monitor, Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor 3rd Ed. and on down, I think he even has a copy of Morals and Dogma too.

All of these books can be downloaded "free-ly" on the web. I have several monitors and other books such as Gould's History.

Oh, and for those who "believe" the public couldn't handle it, what a lame arse answer. Most people would easily understand it and toss it aside as rubbish, THAT is why it is kept secret, who in their right mind would actually believe in that crap?

It's all about control. Bottom line.

It's dangling a carrot on a stick. Once you take the carrot, they put shackles on you make you perform the "Great Work."