Russian wildfires and another Chernobyl event

After watching the video about how the Russian wildfires could reach the Chernobyl area, please read what I have written below it. There is much more to this that what the video describes. It is my belief that ground contamination is the least of our worries. The metal sarcophagus is the real danger and it's in terrible shape already.



Contrary to what most believe, Chernobyl and the area around it remains radioactively contaminated. The reactor that exploded is as contaminated as it was at the time and only the metal sarcophagus around the destroyed reactor, built on the backs of thousands of people who died to build it, insulates the world from the massive contamination still there. To put this contamination in perspective, they had to clean the roof of the exploded reactor because it was so hot (radioactively) that the clean up to the surrounding area could not be done without cleaning up the graphite on the roof top (blown out from the reactor) because machinery needed to build the containment vessel (the sarcophagus) would not work under those radioactive conditions – robots refused the assignment, either by literally dying or malfunctioning and throwing themselves into the pit. So, they sent in men to do the work that the machines, even, refused to do. Those men, donning lead suits, could not work longer than 45 seconds (1 shovel full of debris) without succumbing to the radioactivity (the very longest they were allowed to work was 1 minute) – but because of the numbers of men and the around the clock work, they got it done - eventually. Most of those men are dead now, the survivors are very sick. The plume of contamination went as far as the UK.

25 years later, the sarcophagus is in a bad state of repair – there are many concerns, due to the rust stains on the sarcophagus that it will begin to leak if it hasn’t already. The Ukraine and the Russian governments have known for some time that the containment is worsening but have either not had the 1 Billion dollars needed to build the new one or have not been willing to do it (I think the later). The containment sarcophagus was never meant to last longer than 30 years - and remember, it's made out of metal and metal erodes even in far better conditions. If these massive fires reach this sarcophagus and heat it sufficiently, this could be disastrous.

If you want to know more about the Chernobyl emergency and literally how dire it was, watch this series of videos. Part 8 of the series documents the shape of the sarcophagus today and for that reason is the only one I’ll put in this thread (damage to the sarcophagus begins at 6:00). There are 10 parts in the whole series. The whole series is a good depiction of how close the world actually came to destruction according to a couple of friends of mine that were part of the IAEA investigation of the event at the time.






[edit on 6/8/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

The sarcophagus damage begins at 6:00 in the video above.

“I pray to God that the sarcophagus never collapses. That would be the worst thing that could happen because inside there are 100 kilogram of plutonium.. 1 microgram is a lethal dose for a human being. That means there is enough plutonium to poison a hundred million people. The half life of plutonium, in other words the time is takes for half of the plutonium to disappear, is 245,000 years. This is something we could thus consider eternal. There are areas where there will never see life again.” – Vassili Nesterenko, Nuclear Physicist on what’s inside the disintegrating sarcophagus at Chernobyl.

I do too, Vassili...

[edit on 6/8/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

I do hope some will respond and keep this thread alive. We need to be keeping an eye on this as it develops.

i'v flaged the thread but other than that i have nothing constructive to say other than i hope this beast isnt unleashed. thanks for bringing this to ATS

Chernobyl is located in western Russia / eastern Ukraine. I continue to look for where exactly the fires are. Although not much, I found this:

In neighboring Ukraine, also suffering from heat and lack of rain, a wildfire on Thursday was within three kilometers (two miles) of a military base in the Dnirpropetrovsk region, local news reports said. The regional emergencies ministry said only that a 300-hectare (750-acre) fire was close to being extinguished. In all, wildfires in eastern Ukraine have destroyed about 1,000 hectares (2,500 acres).

Almost 600 fires were reported burning in Russia on Thursday, mostly in the western stretches of the country.

[edit on 6/8/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

I had no idea the area was still so contaminated.
Let's hope the fires are out soon.

Originally posted by danielhanson420
i'v flaged the thread but other than that i have nothing constructive to say other than i hope this beast isnt unleashed. thanks for bringing this to ATS

That's alright... thanks for responding anyway.

reply to post by snowspirit


Yeah. Most people don't realize it. I would venture to say that there are many that have never heard of it. A whole lot was kept out of the media by every government on earth, not just the Russians. Almost all have never heard the whole story of just how close the entire world was from destruction from it. It really was a very, very dire situation. Still could be because containment of it is only as good as the containment vessel. They never got rid of any of the contamination inside.. they just built a metal structure around it. Unfortunately, they haven't maintained that structure either. They are 10 years behind schedule on the new structure too.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


You had me until you started talking about robots committing suicide..

WTF are you rambling about?

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

You had me until you started talking about robots committing suicide..

WTF are you rambling about?

What?

They literally would stop working, bend over and die... ok, maybe not in the human biological way but in a mechanical death. But they also did literally malfunction and drive themselves straight into the pit. Nothing worked in that amount of radiation.

My point, and by the way I was accurate in everything I said - the radiation was (and still is) so severe that machines (robots) were useless - all work had to be done manually by men even though they knew they would die from it. They literally were sacrificing their lives because the job had to be done and machines wouldn't work. The men who did the job reported that while they were on the roof they couldn't feel their own teeth the radiation was so extreme - and that was behind lead shielding. They were only allowed to stay on the roof for 1 min max (30 - 45 sec is what was expected of them).




[edit on 6/8/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


What would happen in a worst case scenario?

If a huge uncontrollable fire made it to Chernobyl and was burning it up.

How catastrophic would it be? How wide would its' effects reach (Russia, UK, US)? How many people could die and/or be poisoned?

Basically what would the effects be?

S+F

From what I've seen and read it seem they are more worried about the fires buring the radioactive trees grass buildings then the barrier failing. Not really to worried about this, nature still seems to bounce back even after we've gone in and made a mess of things. The forest is taking back the towns, animals are seen roaming the place (they are all radioactive, and possibly mutating/ed but life still finds away.

So I dont think we'll see to many great effects other the the semi radioactive ash from the fires that might cause some widespread sickness depending on the winds and how the fire is handled. Thanks for the information and good to keep an eye, but dont think no much will come from it.

It sure is bad in Russia right now re the fires. Just been watching RT news and there's a high pressure hanging over Russia, and the weather forecaster's predicted that that high pressure is going to remain in place, for at least another week and a half.

Moscow's just completely smogged up - visibility is down to just a few feet, and everyone is now walking around in masks. These fires are expanding, crews are thinly spread and working under pressure from the Kremlin to get them stopped.

I'll be keeping my eye on this, thanks for bringing it to attention

reply to post by Misoir


I can’t say for sure, although I’m certain it wouldn’t be something anyone would want to be around. I’m sorry to be so vague.

When the reactor explosion occurred it sent particles into the atmosphere and actually reached France and the U.K. In the fire scenario, I don’t think there would be an explosion. The real problem here is that there is an awful amount of cooled molten plutonium (100 kilograms) still inside the destroyed reactor shell. The containment of this plutonium (and the ambient radioactivity it’s giving off) is what is really at stake.

In reality, I do think that the Russian government will do everything and anything necessary to keep the fire away from the sarcophagus because they do know the shape it's in. I just hope it doesn't get away from them.

Originally posted by Jedite
From what I've seen and read it seem they are more worried about the fires buring the radioactive trees grass buildings then the barrier failing.

Yep, that's what everyone's talking about but it's my position that there is a much, much more dangerous side to this that they aren't talking about.... the 25 year old already disintegrating, metal sarcophagus that's shielding the world from 100 kilograms of plutonium of which 1 microgram is lethal to humans. didn't you read what I wrote?

[edit on 6/8/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

sorry to say but yes some people only read what they want to read, and yes, i do agree with you there is something more going on i tried to find a 2-3 year old article were it was stating that the frame work was disintegrating from the inside out.

If you look for, on the web/net "robotic death or death of robots" you will find videos of them falling in to the pit, there was a cam on one, that lasted 10 min, and you could see the gray goo moving and the ripples of heat.

wondered if, god for bid, how we would handle such an event.

When the out shell does fall, for in the other video it tells of how the is no funds to build it 1Bil$, will they be open and tell the world?

Here is a view from my window. You can see the smoke is heavy in Moscow.

I think this is the most important story today, at least in my perspective.

The Chernobyl area will be contaminated for 'up to 200,000 to 500,000 years' according to some of the Russians who spoke in the video linked in the OP. I went to youtube and watched the entire documentary, extremely informative I suggest everyone watch it.

A disaster of this nature is not a Russian problem, it is a human problem and it effects everyone globally.

For instance in the documentary linked in the OP, they showed maps of Europe and showed diagrams of how the radioactive cloud traveled all across Europe and contaminated vast regions including France, Italy, UK, etc.

But this information was never really big in the press, as the documentary shows, much of the truth about what really happened has been covered up or ignored.

Luckily now in the Information Age we are beginning to really find out the true scope of the disaster and it's unprecedented.

This is a very good topic to discuss and I spent the last 3 hours + doing research and watching videos on the topic. Extremely important stuff when considering the future of our species and each of our children will be effected worldwide.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Kudos to you for taking the time to watch the series. It is the best documentary on the subject. Thanks for your contribution.

1986 was a long time ago and not many understand the impact this event had and continues to have on the world. The severity of the events that happened was intentionally kept from the public at large due to various reasons in various countries but there were those who knew that they were literally on the verge of destroying the world at the time (the very close call with the secondary explosion which would have proved even worse) - I'm not exaggerating or over-dramatizing one little bit. Chernobyl was truly the "Oh S*it", white knuckle moment that brought everyone back to reality and humility and became the beginning of the end of the cold war.

Now, let's just hope and pray they contain the fires so that the structure remains viable so we can just continue to deal with the contamination that's already there and not new contamination on top of it. I haven't been able to find much information besides the RT video that says where the fires actually are. Any help on this is appreciated.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Thanks for posting that series of videos, that was a real eye opener. My only understanding of the disaster before was that the reactor blew, 1000s of people died, and they sealed it.

The magnitude of the effort involved to seal the reactor, and what could have been if there had been a 2nd explosion, is somethig everyone needs to understand. Makes you wonder why the Russians, of all people, would be helping Iran to build more of these things.

But what I don't understand is that there have been 1000s of nuclear test explosions around the world, only a proportion underground, and they do not produce any of the disasterous consequences of 1 reactor blowing.

In the video someone said "If there had been a 2nd explosion all of Europe would have been uninhabitable". And also one of the Soviets most powerful nuclear weapons was 30 times more powerful than the explosion at Chernobyl.

They must have tested these weapons, and what about the Tsar bomb? Why isn't this adding up for me? Can someone explain, please?