It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Below some posters are discussing the creation of a "Truth" Party to fight in the political arena on a Truth Movement platform. They suggest that it would reject the more way out theories (NPT, DEW, nukes, I suppose) and imply that a core alternative narrative of what happened on 9/11 would be promoted.
This set me thinking - what is that narrative? What does "mainstream truth" think happened?
Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by TrickoftheShade
No one group was behind it as they control all the groups we see on the surface.
Stay away from pentagon stuff as you will never get any evidence on that.
Especially as there seems to be a psychological need for my truth to be ahead of and distinct from most others.
Originally posted by jprophet420
The name implies they would want truth in politics.
Something that was not present before, during, or after 911.
I don't think they are saying they know the truth about 911, they are saying they want truth.
Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Below some posters are discussing the creation of a "Truth" Party to fight in the political arena on a Truth Movement platform. They suggest that it would reject the more way out theories (NPT, DEW, nukes, I suppose) and imply that a core alternative narrative of what happened on 9/11 would be promoted.
This set me thinking - what is that narrative? What does "mainstream truth" think happened?
I'll have a go, off the top of my head, but other thoughts are most welcome.
The twin towers were flown into by planes, but subsequently were demolished by explosives. Building seven suffered a similar fate - sans planes - later in the day.
The hijackers were aboard the planes as patsies but did not fly them, as they lacked the skill to do so. The conditions inside the planes are unknown because the airphone and mobile calls were faked.
There were no plane crashes at Shanksville or the Pentagon. Those planes must have gone to another location, or did not take off. The Pentagon was most likely targeted by a missile or a drone plane and agents of the conspiracy planted and falsified evidence of the aeroplane. Likewise the DNA evidence of the passengers is fake.
NORAD was stood down, probably by executive order, as it would easily have been able to intercept the planes. A series of complicated war games confused the Air Force further and may even have been used to facilitate the planning of the event.
Senior officials in the administration and business world knew beforehand. They received no-fly warnings and some participated in stock shorting to profit from teh attacks.
Osama Bin Laden had nothing to do with the attacks. Members of his family were discreetly flown to Saudi Arabia immediately after the attacks.
Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by ipsedixit
Possibly. To be honest it's not something I've read a lot about, even here. "Who was involved" is an area that the Truth Movement tends to avoid tackling as a subject in itself.
Partly I guess this is because it's hard to know - well, impossible, in my opinion, since there was no conspiracy - and partly because any serious examination of it leads you to the conclusion that so many people would have to be in on it that it's very unlikely to be true.
Originally posted by ipsedixit
No mention of even the Israelis?
Surely, even in the Bush administration's view, there was a conspiracy. You're a rarity. The one thing that debunkers and truthers agree on is that there was a conspiracy.
The question is who were in on it. Truthers question the Bush administration's over reliance on bin Laden and the 19 hijackers plus go betweens and bagmen. They don't think those folks could get every thing that needed to be done on that day done. That's where the notion of an inside job comes up.
There are numerous reasons to suspect an inside job on 9/11. It's not at all unreasonable to entertain the thought. If you look more deeply into it you may see some of those reasons for yourself.
Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
But I've never seen any evidence for any of the stuff I posted at the top. Even "mainstream" truth is pretty much all nonsense.
The twin towers were flown into by planes, but subsequently were demolished by explosives. Building seven suffered a similar fate - sans planes - later in the day.
The hijackers were aboard the planes as patsies but did not fly them, as they lacked the skill to do so. The conditions inside the planes are unknown because the airphone and mobile calls were faked.
NORAD was stood down, probably by executive order, as it would easily have been able to intercept the planes. A series of complicated war games confused the Air Force further and may even have been used to facilitate the planning of the event.
Senior officials in the administration and business world knew beforehand. They received no-fly warnings and some participated in stock shorting to profit from teh attacks.
Osama Bin Laden had nothing to do with the attacks. Members of his family were discreetly flown to Saudi Arabia immediately after the attacks.
Originally posted by ipsedixit
1. This particular item has been the subject of a huge amount of discussion on ATS. ...
Truthers are right on this one. There is evidence, cited immediatley above, of a controlled demolition of WTC7 on 9/11. Numerous consequences follow from that fact.
This item is one which it is more difficult to address for the truth movement, but people have advanced opinions expressed by pilots that based on the training they received, the hijackers could not have flown the missions. Well, sometimes people perform beyond their abilities. However there have also been informed opinions expressed that the aircraft path flown at the Pentagon is impossible for more than one reason.
This is a case where a jury in court would have to weigh the evidence and make up it's mind.
The issue of the phone calls is one where knowledgeable people have argued that cellphone calls were impossible for technical reasons and that the airphones had been removed from the aircraft types in question at that time. Both of these areas of interest should be the subject of further inquiry.
From a truther perspective, it turns out that what should be solid evidence supporting the Bush administrations's explanation of events is not so solid after all.
We know, or at least have a very strong suspicion, in the case of the first item that, according to Norman Mineta the vice president did in fact appear to be preventing the shoot down of the aircraft heading for the Pentagon. The famous "Does the order still stand?" exchange.
There is no question that there was confusion about what was going on vis a vis the wargames and the hijack situation. It is amply attested and even present in at least one recorded telephone exchange.
The truth movement is standing on firm ground here.
The issue of the stock shorting is well known and was investigated by the SEC.
Bottom line there is no doubt that the events cited in this item happened. They raise suspicions in the truth movement. When you talk about this sort of thing you enter the area of preponderance of evidence, at least circumstantial evidence. The "walks like a duck" sort of evidence
bin Laden, in his first response to the attacks, said that he had no part in them and believed that they must have been done by someone in the United States for reasons of their own. Every other leader of a middle eastern militant group like Yasser Arafat, for example, made it clear that they were not involved in the attacks. There used to be an archive of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour program for September 11, 2001, with video taped statements from them all.
Unfortunately, General Ahmad, head of Pakistan's ISI, wasn't interviewed. I'm sure he would have acknowledged wiring Mohammed Atta $100,000 just prior to the attacks and just prior to visiting Washington to confer with his opposite numbers in the CIA and other US representatives.
The bin Ladens were in fact as everyone knows flown out of US airspace while it was still closed and were only briefly questioned by authorities. That kind of thing raises suspicion.
This kind of thing raises suspicions and hackles. It is not at all unreasonable to question the manouvers of the Bush administration in the face of things like this. When a CIA colleague is implicated in wiring money to Mohammed Atta, the CIA itself is implicated and would be subject to criminal investigation in any other circumstances than 911.
There are many substantial reasons to believe that 9/11 was an inside job.