warning this can offend law abiding citizens - Which I'm not one of.

Another holy roller complaining that he's not 'allowed' to mix religion with a game. Honestly, I'm not offended by that law. It doesn't affect me and the less religion the better.

This guy sounds like a douche too. That's all I've to got to say on this illogical case of God lovers gone crazy.

Oh and Mr. Principal, God forbid anyone actually worship Mother Earth. The one thing that provides us life besides the Sun. Sorry it's not a superstition or imaginary friend you worship on one day of the week.

Like Mr. Carlin one pointed out...why pray to a guy on Sunday..his day off? That's not very nice.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by GorehoundLarry]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

~The First Amendment; The Bill of Rights, The Constitution for the United States~

A clear reading of this straightforward Amendment makes perfectly clear who has been denied the authority to Establish a religion and that is Congress. This is what is known as the Establishment Clause, and it in no way speaks to the States or local government. Each state comes with its own constitution, and if that constitution isn't expressly forbidding public facilities the right of prayer, then there is no Constitutional basis to deny any public school the right to openly and publicly pray. It is due to the dubious 14th Amendment that the courts have extended what was expressly intended to be prohibitions on a federal government to become prohibitions on a state and local level as well.

The religiosity of worshiping The SCOTUS as if they are nine Popes who act as implements of a higher power is no different than the religiosity of Christianity. The Bill of Rights are not Amendments intended to act as a prohibition on the people, they are prohibitions on a federal government, and virtually all state constitutions act in the same way, as a prohibition on government, not on the people.

reply to post by ipsedixit


I must say BRAVO to your "modification". It will truly bring out the light for others to see if they, in fact, read it.

As far as I am concerned, your religion, your belief, your dogma is just that...YOURS. It does not belong in a public forum... period!

Spirituality is personal, and each individual should have his own realm in which to explore that spirituality, it should NOT be a public forum.

There are so many bastardized religions out there that have assimilated the beliefs and traditions of other systems that along the way the meaning behind the traditions has been lost. To continue this is detrimental to the human spirit. I just seem to give more fodder for argument, and more fuel to a fire lit out of ignorance.

I am NOT a Christian. I do not have anything against them. I am not a Muslim. I have nothing against them. I am not an Atheist or a Jew, Hindu, or a Scientologist, and I have nothing against them, but whenever (and believe me it's more often than I would like) one of them tries to shove their belief system (or lack thereof, whichever the case may be) and/or dogma down my throat, you can bet I am going to fight back tooth and nail!

If you want to "pray" to God, Jesus, Allah, Buddah or Mother Earth, that is your right, do not ask me to do the same, and please, keep me from becoming biased and judging you by stating your belief out loud. Instead, act by the tenets of what your faith teaches you.

Originally posted by JohnnyElohim
I for one feel mixed. I admire this fellow's cajones but injecting his religion-informed social views into the mix with backhanded remarks about things like sex education, environmental education, allusions to the "perverted sexuality" of what I can only presume to be homosexuality... I hardly admire that. Let's turn this around and suppose for a moment that a person in the same position were to give the same speech, only they invited the crowd into a magical incantation intended to bring about the embodiment of the goddess. Let's suppose they made an appeal for equal marriage rights for homosexuals, clear and concise sex education to reduce the threat of sexually transmitted diseases and teen pregnancy, and decried the disaster of industrialized capitalism that was the Deepwater Horizon spill. Would you admire them for sticking to their guns or would you accuse them of abusing their office and using the venue inappropriately to support a social, political, and/or religious agenda that does not belong there?

You are spot on. These people probably wouldn't have tolerated such things as well.

However... you are sitting there deciding what is good for THAT community. What do you know about them?

As I said before, notice how EVERYONE JOINED IN PRAYER after the speech. It is their culture.

IF someone wanted to do the things that you are saying, I would say, "have at it. People will have their choice."

Someone who is actually strong in their beliefs is not going to worry if another's beliefs infringe on their own.

So, yeah, I see your point, but, no, you are not the decider for that community.

Enjoy.

I am in Tennessee and this better make the local news in the morning or i will have lost even more faith in local journalism. Props to those who speak their mind in the face of those who would be easily offended in light of the freedoms that give us the right to do so. Rock on with your values and beliefs and keep throwing it the face of those who are offended. Thats how this country separates itself from others. We make room for everyone, and if it offends some then so be it, and that is how it should be. Be offended if you will but remember that you have that right to be offended just like others have the right to offend. God bless you if you so choose to be blessed.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by pegasi51]

Originally posted by jaynkeel
reply to post by nunya13

 

Last time I checked our country wasn't founded on the Muslim religion. But then again I don't support any religion that practices killing ones self or others, ie: just about any main stream religion. No matter if you call it a crusade or jihad I have a problem believing a supreme deity would order people to kill in his or her name, and if they did they would lose my belief.

FWIW, this is an international board (thanks, Internet!) so 'our' country could be construed as ambiguous. Still, I'm guessing you mean the good 'ole US of A. I must point out, though, that it was not founded on any religion. In fact, it was founded by a combination of people who were perennially suspicious of religion and people whose religion was so unpopular where they came from that they felt they needed to escape just to live as they wished. These two groups saw eye to eye on the matter of religion: governments should have nothing to do with it and vice versa. So, you know. That particular notion is absurd.

As far as Muslims go, you should check out the bible! Check this stuff out!

"...do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them...as the Lord your God has commanded you..." Deuteronomy 20:16

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations...then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." Deuteronomy 7:1-2

We have a word for that nowadays: genocide. No religion has a monopoly on violent stupidity.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by JohnnyElohim]

reply to post by ThreeSistersofLoveandLigh

As far as I am concerned, your religion, your belief, your dogma is just that...YOURS. It does not belong in a public forum... period!

By definition, ATS is not technically a public forum - it is actually a privately owned forum.

But, this is, for all intents and purposes, a public forum.

So are you not spreading your particular belief and dogma in this forum?

Or do you base everything that happens in your life on legal definitions and terms?

Originally posted by nunya13
Since when did school football games become an acceptable event for political soap box speeches? Maybe he should spend his time trying to fight against what he sees as an atrocity rather than making everyone listen to his political ramblings.

Also, the constitution does say freedom of religion, not FROM. However, that doesn't mean that it's okay to blurt over a PA system and force everyone to hear your prayer. Just like it wouldn't be okay for someone on the opposite side of the aisle to get on a PA system and tell everyone how there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

Just like they have a right to say it, others have a right not to hear it and it's nearly impossible to avoid it if your in crowded bleachers and were not forewarned that there was going to be a public prayer. Same as trying to say a prayer over the school PA when the other students do not have the option of NOT hearing it.

If there was a Muslim teacher who wanted to say his/her own prayer, don't you think the Christians would be upset about being forced to listen to it?

I don't know why you got any stars at all. Your post makes no sense.

No one prayed aloud over the PA system as you claim. No one was forced to listen to anyone pray.

No one at that ball game seemed to have a problem with what this Principle said. Looks like your own your own here.

He didn't make a soap box speech. He was explaining why they could not pray for the game. I am sure most people used to going to games would have found the omission of the prayer very odd. He then had to justify why he could ask people to pray on their own if they so wished.

I see nothing wrong with what this person did, and if we had more people like him, this world would be a better place.

reply to post by nunya13


How far does your respect for others rights go? Or is it one sided?

I think abortion on demand is murder and yet schools not only teach it, they encourage it as we see in the news all of the time. Would you defend my right to not have my child exposed to this?

I think Sex Education is a Parents responsibility and yet they teach it at school to pre-pubescent children. Would you defend my right to not have that taught to my child?

I think they teach about sexual orientation way to young in school. Would you defend my right to decide at what age my child should be taught about it?

If you answer no to either one, you are simply into controlling others. Would you defend my rights on all those issues? yeah or neigh?

reply to post by TarzanBeta

I returned the favor.

I think it is ridiculous to not allow people to pray at high school/local events, when their are many towns that are mostly of one religion It's completely normal to practice that religion at local-public events and is done everywhere on the planet except fascist/oppressed countries. that's why when are forefathers made the bill of rights they gave complete freedom of religion because passing "one size fits all" law on things as diverse as religion will always end in oppression for at least some of the(mostly all) religions. I am not religious by the way.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by TruthWizard]

Originally posted by TruthWizard
I think it is ridiculous to not allow people to pray at high school/local events,

Here's a tip:

Not everyone follows your God. Not everyone worships your God. God is an ancient, mythological character made up for a certain group to Worship. There have been numerous Gods throughout history.

Keep it away from events and sport events that bring a variety of individuals who may share different religious views.

Originally posted by Anti-Evil

One by one, the people in the stands bowed their heads, held hands with one another and began to pray.

They prayed in the stands. They prayed in the team huddles. They prayed at the concession stand and they prayed in the Announcer's Box!

Which side did god support?

Bunch of arse, as we say in New Zealand. More neoconservative religious twaddle.

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


So you want to force your beliefs on others children. That is what you are saying, right? Anyone who does not march in lockstep with your beliefs should be forced to live as if they do? Speak as if they do? Act as if they do?

Hmmm, the only difference between a Dictator and a person who holds that view, is the power. Otherwise, same person.

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry

Originally posted by TruthWizard
I think it is ridiculous to not allow people to pray at high school/local events,

Here's a tip:

Not everyone follows your God. Not everyone worships your God. God is an ancient, mythological character made up for a certain group to Worship. There have been numerous Gods throughout history.

Keep it away from events and sport events that bring a variety of individuals who may share different religious views.

How many times must you be told that the principal gave the speech at a school where praying is their culture?

What is -your- agenda?

Sorry to tell you brother, but you can't kill God for two reasons.

1) Either I'm right and He is all-powerful or
2) You're right and He doesn't exist.

So...according to the OP, I am not a good AMERICAN because I am not a Christian and do not want my tax dollars spent on time praying to Christian deities? Funny, I thought America was better than this.

Originally posted by intrepid
Sorry but if I want my children to know about religion, or lack thereof, that's MY purview, not some bible thumper. ME!!! I can see why the SC has ruled as it has. "Freedom of Religion". Not "Freedom to have someone else's religion shoved down my kids throats."

What about the other 15 points he made ?

Any comments on those? or just going to single out the 1 you disagree with and sum it all up into just that?

And No I don't go to church.......only been maybe 3 times in my whole life...

I'm not really for religion either.....but what he/she said makes sense.....


HE did not make a prayer....and by giving this "preamble" to said prayer, he did in fact warn the people of what they could , in the future do.....


Ponder that for a bit please.


Peace

Originally posted by TarzanBeta

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry

Originally posted by TruthWizard
I think it is ridiculous to not allow people to pray at high school/local events,

Here's a tip:

Not everyone follows your God. Not everyone worships your God. God is an ancient, mythological character made up for a certain group to Worship. There have been numerous Gods throughout history.

Keep it away from events and sport events that bring a variety of individuals who may share different religious views.

How many times must you be told that the principal gave the speech at a school where praying is their culture?

What is -your- agenda?

Sorry to tell you brother, but you can't kill God for two reasons.

1) Either I'm right and He is all-powerful or
2) You're right and He doesn't exist.

Well said!

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
You are spot on. These people probably wouldn't have tolerated such things as well.

However... you are sitting there deciding what is good for THAT community. What do you know about them?

I am? I would definitely say that sexually transmitted diseases aren't right for any community, but that's about all I'm certain of. Oh, and talking about "perverted" lifestyles to a group of high schoolers might be jumping the gun a bit, too. But I would hardly endorse going into any of that subject matter at the outset of a high school football game and I think the reason for that would be very clear if I was standing there saying things you felt were objectionable.

As I said before, notice how EVERYONE JOINED IN PRAYER after the speech. It is their culture.

I don't think this is a strong point, no offense intended. First of all, the anecdotal account implying everyone there approved of his words is not terribly compelling. I suspect this account of events was written by someone who sympathized with the speech and they should probably not be regarded as an unbiased witness. Second of all, even if it were true, that's a lucky fact. Most communities are very complex and while someone may agree on one or two of those points it is likely there is division on many of them. It again begs the question, is this the right venue?

IF someone wanted to do the things that you are saying, I would say, "have at it. People will have their choice."

Well, I proposed that hypothetical situation to illustrate the point to people who agree with this fellow in all that he said: surely there are people there who did not, and their interests are important, too.

Someone who is actually strong in their beliefs is not going to worry if another's beliefs infringe on their own.

So, yeah, I see your point, but, no, you are not the decider for that community.

Enjoy.

And thank goodness for that. If this is what they are used to, I would bore the living daylights out of them with my even handed approach to policy focused on secular ethics and the pursuit of fact in my decision making.

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


Could you describe the exact injury to you which occurs when you inadvertently hear a prayer? In detail?

I hate, and I mean hate Pop Music and Bubblegum Music. If I walk into a Cafe and they have some playing on the speakers, I don't throw a fit; I don't demand they turn it off; I don't act like a child. Why? Because that would make me an intolerant jerk because the music does me no harm and others in their enjoy it. It does me no harm for it to play while I'm there.

Same thing exactly.