Surgeons cut open girl, five, to fix failing kidneys only to find two new ones growing in their plac

Don't mistake cause with consequence. Positive thinking comes because you are healing and you know it, not the opposite.

Originally posted by Kandinsky

Now this surprises me! Did he mean stubborn? Positive thinking is possibly the bright side of pig-headedness.

Best wishes to you and your son

Thanks

Yes, he meant downright pigheaded, like me.
The sort of patients who won't lie down and won't take their medicine.

After being slit hip to hip having a hysterectomy and a football-sized tumor removed I only stayed in hospital a few days for observation. I refused all pain killers and sleeping tablets, and controlled the pain and wore myself out by spending all my waking hours walking up and down corridors, and demanded far more healthy food than was in the meals. The oldest nurse hated me, the rest loved me because I gave them, and any patients they recommended, massages.

(I'd learned before the operation the vertical belly muscles, which give you strength, are never cut in that type of operation, just pushed aside.)

One week after the op I rode my beloved bicycle to the surgery, 5 miles away, for my post-op check-up.

Two weeks after the op I forgot I'd had it and pushed a massage patient's old, heavy car out of the thick mud out the front, wondering why it was not as easy as usual.

No harm was done.;-)


I suspect it's exercise as much as attitude, perhaps bed rest is harmful and walking is healing. And perhaps genes matter too, the robustness is a family thing.

All in all I believing in working with mental and spiritual aspects, but often the answers are simple, physical phenomenon.

This is an amazing story.

My first thought was she absorbed a twin in utero.

Originally posted by ickylevel
Don't mistake cause with consequence. Positive thinking comes because you are healing and you know it, not the opposite.

Positive thinking can also mean resigning yourself to death and making the most of whatever opportunities you have left.

One doesn't have to always fight to be a hero. I've seen a very gutsy woman finally decide the answer was to to party for her remaining week and die joyously. And she did, in the arms of the man she loved.

Originally posted by Kandinsky

No. If cancer can be cured by thought...is thought causing it? I'd ask if you thought cancer in animals is caused by 'dogma,' but can already guess your answer. It's a con by veterinary doctors, huh?

Of course thought causes cancer! Everything is thought in a phenomenal universe. All animals, including humans, are capable of thinking themselves sick. In a phenomenal universe, the only thing that exists is thought, and so bodily illness is the result of mental illness (for example, hypochondria, paranoia, mania etc). A mental illness is, of course, only an 'illness' if the subject thinks that their ordinary mental operations are somehow bad or 'diseased.'

Mental illnesses are invented and propagated by an ethnocentric medical establishment that rejects anything beyond its society's norms as abnormal i.e. bad. This establishment of course does not represent all of, say, American society, but the medical societies within America (or Britain, France, China etc).

If the members of the Royal Society of Medicine decide that talking to oneself in multiple voices is a sign of illness, then they will advise doctors and other medical professionals to treat it as such; thus it filters down to the medical practitioners outside of the Society, and they pass this false information on to their patients, who become paranoid that they have been ill all their lives (and for some reason never noticed it before!).

edit to bring it back on topic: this kidney miracle is certainly the result of someone (probably the girl, with the unlimited will and imagination of a child) 'thinking' her healthy.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by Regenstorm

 

It's all in the head people! You're own mind can heal anything, even AIDS and Cancer. This is well known n certain communities, but this is being kept secret, otherwise the pharmaceutical industries can't sell their poison anymore. The related link tells you how you can accomplish this yourself!

This is utter BS and unacceptable. Where does disease come from? Is it also 'in the mind?' Tell that to someone with a serious illness. Tell their families.

A Doctor related a story of a woman that came to his surgery in tears. She was dying of cancer and reading all the self-help and alternative medicine books she could find. So why the tears?

She felt guilty. She wondered why she couldn't overcome cancer and felt like she was betraying her family. All the 'positive thinking' didn't work and she blamed herself. The f****** selling these ignorant, parasitical ideas put the blame on the ill for not wanting to live enough. She felt responsible for her failing health.

Go to a chemo wing in your local hospital and tell them they're dying from terminal imagination.

No she has nothing to feel guilty about but chemo and radiation are be for anything but the most benign forms of cancer.

The treatment only offers a 2% benefit! That is within the margin of error folks! Yes that's right so you can pump those chemicals through your system and burn from the inside out in horrible agony.
And as a super special bonus you can go bankrupt and possibly bankrupt your family all just to die anyway.

I'm not talking about breast cancer or early melonoma, but real cancer organ cancer.
The medical establishment has sold these people a far worse dream than alternative therpy because it costs more and creates more pain with the same odds.

I personally would live out my last days as fully as possible in as little pain as possible and alternative therapy allows and supports that.

Things like this little girl are cool but not really novel.

For all the people that have died using alternative medicine there are also plenty success stories.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap

All animals, including humans, are capable of thinking themselves sick

Why do they 'think themselves sick?'

All animals, including humans, are capable of thinking themselves sick

Why and how does a year old baby think itself sick?

reply to post by Kandinsky


I now of a site with a way called ancient wisdom. It states that that illnesses are just part of a circular existence.
It has a whole other perspective in this matter. Interested ?

reply to post by Sinter Klaas
Yeah, go for it

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
This is an amazing story.

My first thought was she absorbed a twin in utero.

That was my thought too. A parasitic twin perhaps!

I recently went to a convention in Hartford that was about a "new" form of western medicine. These weren't quacks or anything of the sort; they were legitimate doctors, psychologists, and researchers that were addressing this issue. And the issue is that medicine only takes care of the body, and not the mind.

As much as I love the man, I believe we have Descartes to blame here. The mind-body separation is one of the more detrimental things that have happened to western thinking. While the mind and body might be separate in location, they are inevitably interdependent on one another. And it's this problem of separation that causes people to not understand what is being discussed here and deny it.

What happens above, happens below. What afflicts the mind can afflict the body. One example I can bring here is back pain. The saying "take a load off your back" is more of a reality than you may think. Stress in many cases can cause muscle stiffness and pain in the back. And there have been studies showing that people with back pain who undertake meditation and fully relieve themselves from their stress lose their back pain.

I certainly don't believe you can simply "think" away cancer but I do believe that healing the mind is just as crucial as healing the body and in many cases will bring about better results in the healing process. Basically what I'm saying is that it isn't simply an issue with science and it isn't simply an issue with spirituality. We need to interconnect healing through physical means while healing through spiritual means. One or the other is not going to heal you completely, it's an effort of both the body and the mind to heal because the affliction is in both in the body and the mind. They both have a part in how the problem manifests and thus they both need to be a part in fixing the problem.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Here you go.
Ancient Wisdom

There is another example here related to how the mind and body work together and contradict western science I would like to bring up. I'm reminded as the program just had a rerun.

On the history channel there is a single, hour long documentary about "super humans", basically folks that defy typical human physiology. One of the individuals showcase on the show is called the "Iceman". The Iceman I believe is Scandinavian, and he is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

The Iceman practices a form of yoga in extreme temperatures. He goes out in just briefs and does a rather odd meditation pose. He does this for hours on hand.

A doctor at the human performance institute tested his reactions to the cold. First, they gave him a full physical check up. He's normal at rest conditions, he has a very strong heart and his core body temp is 98 degrees.

They then submerged him in a bath of ice water, wearing just briefs, and hooked up to machines to test his vitals. 3 minutes in, his heart rate actually lowered way it should have risen and his core body temp remained at 98. 15 minutes in, he's shivering a little, his core body temp was at about 97.5 and his heart rate raised a bit. But by this time, any normal person would have been in severe cold shock and be pretty much dying. The Iceman was perfectly fine for the most part. Testing how he felt, he said he was cold, but comfortable.

The doctor was a respected academic and he was frankly shocked at how he did with this test. Even in a wet suit a grown adult would be in pretty bad shape by this time. Most would have died without one 5 - 10 minutes in, not even. But The Iceman was absolutely fine. His body returns to rest within 10 minutes after leaving the bath; again evidence of his abilities.

So right here you have proof that western medicine is hardly aware of everything and in fact may be wrong in many ways. Through mental conditioning he was capable of doing what he did. Some may argue there is even a spiritual component to what he can do, but I leave that up to those that wish to argue such an argument. What is clear cut though is that the mind and body are not separate but are in fact interdependent on one another, and if western medicine. can adapt this it would be truly live saving for many people. Sadly, I doubt it would ever prove to be profitable enough for it to be adapted into western medicine.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas
Hiya Sints. I've read a few pages of the link and the summary page beneath his summary (curriculum).

THINKING IS THE CAUSE OF ILLNESS AND THIS UNIQUE QUALITY IS CAUSED BY THE CALCIFIED BRIDGE BETWEEN THE GRAY SUBSTANCES OF THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT BRAIN PART named: CORPUS CALLOSUM .

He seems unaware of viruses and micro-organisms that cause illnesses. His certainty that thinking causes all illness suggests telepathy! Is that how the common cold is transmitted? The numbers of people contracting small pox has been eradicated by vaccine or willpower? Perhaps he can lick a sewer rat without risk of illness? Ewww...nasty image!

In other articles Bok indicates a religious leaning by his references and themes. No problem there, but it gives an insight into his conclusions. He believes in Noah's Flood, Vatican as anti-Christ and Confucius, Budddha and Jesus were sent as aspects of the zodiac to bring Truth. We learned to think 6000 years ago (familiar figure?). He believes we're in the midst of the apocalypse as described in Revelations.

He makes a prediction of a Noah-flood in 2007 and a new Christ-type figure...

As far as I was able to reconstruct these informative dreams, I can tell you that he will appear just before or just after the greatest Noah-phase ever. (See article : Delivery) He will appear around eastern 2007. And his name? As far as I know, his proper name is still not mentioned. One only spoke about him as being an extraordinary Dai Lama.

link

Willpower often appears stronger in some than others, but it has limitations. A 'will to live' can help patients overcome serious illnesses, but it's not always enough. I wonder if Bok believes hospitals and intensive care units are full of humans without the ability to 'think?'

Originally posted by CHA0S
Holy hell...that's pretty amazing...that should be proof of evolution in action right there...I'm fairly certain this hasn't happened before...or hasn't been scientifically documented at least. I wonder what Phage will have to say (sorry, I don't usually say that, but I'm interested in what he thinks on this one)...the source seems fairly legitimate.

BTW, is that Indian dude still under observation?

[edit on 17/5/10 by CHA0S]

If you have ever cut yourself before, you must know then how the body restores itself.

So a cut healing itself is proof of evolution?

Originally posted by ickylevel
Don't mistake cause with consequence. Positive thinking comes because you are healing and you know it, not the opposite.

These are the words of a quitter.

As well, just because something is a consequence, it does not rule it out also as a cause. Have you ever puked? Did it make you want to puke again?

As well, unless doctors have patients hiding all over the world whose internal organs are under constant observation simply for determining what's going on in a healthy person's body, there is no way for even a doctor to say that growing an extra set of kidneys is not normal.

Who is arrogant enough to believe we know everything about the human body? How many english majors can recite to me an english grammar instruction guide? How many can expand upon that knowledge by reading what has already been written? Who is forming the next new language?

We should start learning to use our imaginations more. How little we know because we hold science in such high regard...

reply to post by TarzanBeta

If you have ever cut yourself before, you must know then how the body restores itself. So a cut healing itself is proof of evolution?

A healing cut is evidence of natural selection...those individuals that didn't clot and scab bled to death without passing on their genes.

As well, unless doctors have patients hiding all over the world whose internal organs are under constant observation simply for determining what's going on in a healthy person's body, there is no way for even a doctor to say that growing an extra set of kidneys is not normal.

They have medical journals going back centuries. They share information. They record everything and haven't found evidence that growing extra kidneys is 'normal.' No autopsies or invasive surgical procedures...no x-rays. There are waiting lists for donor kidneys and people dying of renal failure...an ability to grow more would be great news.

reply to post by TarzanBeta

So a cut healing itself is proof of evolution?

I'm not quite sure that's an adequate analogy my friend...

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

If you have ever cut yourself before, you must know then how the body restores itself. So a cut healing itself is proof of evolution?

A healing cut is evidence of natural selection...those individuals that didn't clot and scab bled to death without passing on their genes.

Ah? You do realize that there are many reasons why one might not be able to clot other than genetics?

As well, unless doctors have patients hiding all over the world whose internal organs are under constant observation simply for determining what's going on in a healthy person's body, there is no way for even a doctor to say that growing an extra set of kidneys is not normal.

They have medical journals going back centuries. They share information. They record everything and haven't found evidence that growing extra kidneys is 'normal.' No autopsies or invasive surgical procedures...no x-rays. There are waiting lists for donor kidneys and people dying of renal failure...an ability to grow more would be great news.

Oh.. I see. So those medical journals going back centuries have recorded how much information again? I wonder how much space those journals might take up...

As opposed to if there actually was a record being kept for each human on this planet at all times, 24/7, LIVE... I bet those journals take up very little space in comparison.

As for people on waiting lists and dying, it's very sad, I agree. And there are no guarantees regarding these types of things. But it would atleast help if they not only didn't believe they were going to die but thought directly against the damage! Mind over matter. Placebo has been proven - why not in this case?

And if the cleverly switched term of natural selection (which isn't actually the same thing as evolution, mind you) is a true thing, then could it not be that this girl has been naturally selected to live based on her brain's ability to reconstruct organs?

Seeing as how she has a human brain), I'd have to say that means that we all have the ability hiding somewhere.

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

So a cut healing itself is proof of evolution?

I'm not quite sure that's an adequate analogy my friend...

Then let's skip the analogy.

Explain how growing an extra set of kidneys is -proof- of evolution.