Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

Originally posted by Angus123
Well it does say that we're supposed to be put to death, but then so are people that eat shellfish, wear clothes made of more than one fabric, adulterers and naughty children.

So I take it as BS just like everything else in that book, lol.

Not to mention women who get married but are not virgins. Read my sig.

I think I'm going to start a cult (yes, that is what most Christian off shoots are).

GodHatesWhores.com

I wonder how long I'll be able to call myself a Christian and get away with being a tax exempt entity?

Originally posted by piedsniper
If I can be an xtian without understanding a bible this would make a bible redundant and surplus to requirements. Hm, kind of killed your own argument there my friend

Just because you can gain salvation without understanding the whole of the bible does not make the bible redundant. You can be a musician without understanding everything there is to know about music. Your skill may suffer, but it does not follow that the rest of musical knowledge is redundant and surplus. It's a non-sequitur.

Did jesusyahwhe not say this - How exactly am I lying by quoting your god ?

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17

I'm sorry, I don't respond to insulting parodies of my Lord's name.

I do know what I'm talking about thanks very much , you're god gave strict instructions to death (amongst many) men who sleep with men as they would a women.

Your god did not change his mind about this because according to your instruction manual written by him (or by men but inspired by him xtians can't seem to agree on that one) he does not change his mind.

You really don't understand what you're talking about because you refuse to accept that Christ already paid that price with his death. Fine, but don't pretend like you have as much authority as to what the bible says as someone who actually believes it.

Children read bibles and it is clear to them that yahwh jesus instructed the practitioners of homosexuality to be killed, it is also clear that the same invisible man in the sky also said the law shall not be changed.

It was clear to me even as a child that Jesus had paid the price for breaking the law and that the law was to be administered through the holy spirit, not by man anymore. You are clueless about something even a child understood. And why? So you can have an excuse to "fear and hate" me because I believe homosexuality is a sin? Fine, if that's "bigoted" then by all means report me and have the mods ban me. I really don't care. Don't bother with the whole warning system, just ban me. I don't hate gay people, I love my gay friends and family, but if bigotry is defined by whether or not I agree with their actions then by all means ban me.

[edit on 4-5-2010 by ngchunter]

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by piedsniper
If I can be an xtian without understanding a bible this would make a bible redundant and surplus to requirements. Hm, kind of killed your own argument there my friend

Just because you can gain salvation without understanding the whole of the bible does not make the bible redundant. You can be a musician without understanding everything there is to know about music. Your skill may suffer, but it does not follow that the rest of musical knowledge is redundant and surplus. It's a non-sequitur.

Did jesusyahwhe not say this - How exactly am I lying by quoting your god ?

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17

I'm sorry, I don't respond to insulting parodies of my Lord's name.

I do know what I'm talking about thanks very much , you're god gave strict instructions to death (amongst many) men who sleep with men as they would a women.

Your god did not change his mind about this because according to your instruction manual written by him (or by men but inspired by him xtians can't seem to agree on that one) he does not change his mind.

You really don't understand what you're talking about because you refuse to accept that Christ already paid that price with his death. Fine, but don't pretend like you have as much authority as to what the bible says as someone who actually believes it.

Children read bibles and it is clear to them that yahwh jesus instructed the practitioners of homosexuality to be killed, it is also clear that the same invisible man in the sky also said the law shall not be changed.

It was clear to me even as a child that Jesus had paid the price for breaking the law and that the law was to be administered through the holy spirit, not by man anymore. You are clueless about something even a child understood. And why? So you can have an excuse to "fear and hate" me because I believe homosexuality is a sin? Fine, if that's "bigoted" then by all means report me and have the mods ban me. I really don't care. Don't bother with the whole warning system, just ban me. I don't hate gay people, I love my gay friends and family, but if bigotry is defined by whether or not I agree with their actions then by all means ban me.

[edit on 4-5-2010 by ngchunter]

I see the bible folk like to ignore all the crap and lies that have been proven false in the bible. So, in the bible, some things are true, but some are false? Give me a break! You see what you want to see!

reply to post by ngchunter


Did jesusyahwhe not say this - How exactly am I lying by quoting your god ?

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:1

7

I'm sorry, I don't respond to insulting parodies of my Lord's name.

yahwhe jesus is an insulting parody ?? Grow up if I had to type all the different names the bible god has I could be here all day.

Are you implying that your god is not yahwhe or not jesus, do you really believe that the creator of everything that is,was or will ever be will get bent out of shape because I didn't get his name right ?

I note with interest that on the last occasion your god took human form he decided to have himself called yeshua and not emmanuel as he is alleged to inspired someone to name him.

Not to stray off topic, your god (whatever you choose to call him) clearly ordered that men who sleep with men as they would a woman should be killed.

Your god did not at any time revoke this ruling that HE made at at the very same time as he decided that -

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:1

7

Any preacher promoting a book that not only condemns people for sleeping with other people but clearly instructs that they be put to death is most defiantly inciting hate crime and murder and should be locked up.

Of course the obvious solution to this moral dilemma is to remove the offending passages from the book. Indeed, removing the passages should not in anyway affect the book if the morally repugnant ruling no longer applies.

reply to post by piedsniper


Off topic again I see.

Figures....

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by Tykonos


You are so wrong, he was actually preaching hate towards a section of society. It wasn't just his opinion he was giving to a mate.

How was he preaching hate? His belief and opinion is against gays, and that is his right to feel that way. He was not denying anyone a civil right. In FACT his civil rights were just trompled upon. I dont understand how this fact escapes one.

It was this guys right to voice his opinions just as it is the cops right to pull rope, or dance with the slippery clam which ever be the case if he/she likes. This preacher was not out asking people to commit violence upon gays, but rather just stating his beliefs. When you decide to live as a homosexual then you expected ridicule it just comes with the territory. The cop should be fired for abuse of power. I suspect he will be on the giving end of a large settlement very soon, as people are undoubtedly up in arms here.

You homos might consider that by limiting free speech and trying to dictate your philosophy as law, will bite you in the ass “no pun intended”. Just because you push certain speech underground does not change its impact one bit. Enjoy the freedoms you have now, and approach those issues which prevent you from enjoying the same benefits that same sex couples enjoy. I am all in support of securing rights for homosexual couples, but I will never support laws which limit religious expression and free speech.

Just 15-20 years ago many had to keep their way of life hidden. When I was young we used to attend bible meeting at an apartment in Hooks Texas. The preachers name was Phil. Many years later when Phil died it came to light that Phil was a female. I am sure many knew but I never did. I hate the thought that Phil had to hide her way of life and I can only imagine the troubles she faced throughout her long life. I also have some family members who are gay, and yes I call them fags, homos, you name it. None of them care in the least, and even if they did screw em. If your gonna be a peter puffer then expect some ridicule ya faggot. On that note I like buttering my ass and lollypops in my mouth. By saying it openly I would expect some ridicule and I am ok with that.




[edit on 4-5-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

Good then, because religous people should take the ridicule too. Difference is, gays are real, God is not. So, religon is not important to me and never has been.

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. No one is right not you or anyone else!

Our standard model of the Universe is so flawed we must make things up to have it explain even the simplest observation we make, so science doesn’t have a clue.
Don’t take my word for it: veehd.com...

No one has any idea friend, and intelligent design is just as valid as any other belief.
Don’t take my word for it: If you can find it watch the documentary “The Privileged Planet” It does not defend religion and makes a strong scientific case for intelligent design.

To say you are right and others are wrong is a pretty flawed mindset friend. I do understand your point but anyone who sees and paints a sky green and fields blue needs to be reminded just how flawed their perception is! Maybe someday science will have all the answers, but that day is not today or in the foreseeable future. I understand why you would place your faith in physics rather than religion, but both belief systems are ultimately flawed and unavoidably wrong. One is not better than the other.

To place faith in the Standard Model is no different than placing your faith with a God.

P.S.
ATS is so very childish. To call a gay man a fag is not hate speech it is just part of our collective language. It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge. The great strength of religion is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it. You homosexuals hate the constraints that organized religion has placed on you, but in turn you hope to accomplish the same by depriving others of their basic rights. It does not hurt you at all if someone thinks that homosexuality is wrong.

I personally worry that my children will be gay, but I could give a # whether your gay or not. That said I feel I have an obligation to ensure my children do not think it’s ok to be gay just for the hell of it. It would be pretty #ed up to have my kids swinging both ways because of the way homosexuality was presented on the TV and at school.

[edit on 4-5-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by SlickOil
The sad thing is that if we dont get our crap together in the USA the "Progressives" will drag us into the same mess.

Yeah those damn progressives who passed the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, and setup a collection of offshore prisons for torture. Those progressives really hate the constitution.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

I personally worry that my children...

Personally that statement is a worry, on the other hand at least refuse collection will be safe for another generation.

Originally posted by Stormwind™
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

I personally worry that my children...

Personally that statement is a worry, on the other hand at least refuse collection will be safe for another generation.

I worry about his children too. Its parents like this who children end up killing themselves because mummy and daddy say that being gay is a sin. They put there faith (not real) in front of there own children. Worse parents in the world are religious parents!

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by Stormwind™
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

I personally worry that my children...

Awful isnt it. I read what he wrote and inside I am cringing. Then I think omg how far have we come and still someone like this is able to get a job, earn money, find someone who is interested enough to produce a life with him, and he is obviously allowed to vote and I pity him, his kids, his poor wife and his country. Because sadly he is in no way alone. And if his kids grow up smart they will end up probably hating him for his views because when they interact with other, much more enlightened people, they will look at his views and pity him also. Otherwise his genetic line produces nothing more than a moral cul-de-sac.
Personally that statement is a worry, on the other hand at least refuse collection will be safe for another generation.

I worry about his children too. Its parents like this who children end up killing themselves because mummy and daddy say that being gay is a sin. They put there faith (not real) in front of there own children. Worse parents in the world are religious parents!

[edit on 5-5-2010 by Stormwind™]

[edit on 5-5-2010 by Stormwind™]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean

That said I feel I have an obligation to ensure my children do not think it’s ok to be gay just for the hell of it.

As if that was possible.

Shows your basic lack of understanding of what it is to be gay. No one is gay "for the hell of it". Truth is though, that lots of people do swing both ways, not for the hell of it, but because that is the way they are; nothing more, nothing less.

After extensive research I have discovered Donkey_Deans house in Hooks Texas where he was taught religion.

Apparently even Hooks has internet and a pool. Woah.


Hooks Texas





Courtesy of /www.christchurch-holidays.co.nz

Originally posted by Stormwind™
After extensive research I have discovered Donkey_Deans house in Hooks Texas where he was taught religion.

Apparently even Hooks has internet and a pool. Woah.


Hooks Texas





Courtesy of /www.christchurch-holidays.co.nz

Lol Thats funny. But on a serious note, it really annoys me that these people are will to ignore the crap that is in the bible (thats why they have not answerd my questions) but anything that can stir up hate, then they are on it like a shot! And logic tells you they are using the bible as an excuse to hate things they already hate anyway.

Originally posted by piedsniper
reply to post by ngchunter

 

Did jesusyahwhe not say this - How exactly am I lying by quoting your god ?

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:1

7

I'm sorry, I don't respond to insulting parodies of my Lord's name.

yahwhe jesus is an insulting parody ?? Grow up if I had to type all the different names the bible god has I could be here all day.

Are you implying that your god is not yahwhe or not jesus, do you really believe that the creator of everything that is,was or will ever be will get bent out of shape because I didn't get his name right ?

I note with interest that on the last occasion your god took human form he decided to have himself called yeshua and not emmanuel as he is alleged to inspired someone to name him.

Not to stray off topic, your god (whatever you choose to call him) clearly ordered that men who sleep with men as they would a woman should be killed.

Your god did not at any time revoke this ruling that HE made at at the very same time as he decided that -

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:1

7

Any preacher promoting a book that not only condemns people for sleeping with other people but clearly instructs that they be put to death is most defiantly inciting hate crime and murder and should be locked up.

Of course the obvious solution to this moral dilemma is to remove the offending passages from the book. Indeed, removing the passages should not in anyway affect the book if the morally repugnant ruling no longer applies.

Piedsniper, though I am a bit dubious about your sincere desire for truth, I feel that your inquiries are relevant and deserve a proper response...which to this point they have not received.

First, I want to speak to the old testament laws which you have repeatedly mentioned. Yes, the law which God gave to the Israelites through Moses clearly stated that homosexuality is a sin, punishable by death (along with a great number of other iniquities). The thing you have to understand about the Levitical laws is that they were specifically given to the Israelites because they were a people set aside by God to be holy. Scripture states that God cannot even look upon iniquity, much-less dwell amongst a people who are living in it (and in that time he literally was abiding with them). This said, it wasn't long before it became clear that the Israelites could not successfully keep the law, (nor could any man) and it became a burden to them.

The clear picture painted by the old testament law was that "the wages of sin is death," and "all men fall short," and are inherently destined to die (the second death being hell).

And this, my friend is where the beauty of God's love for all mankind comes in by way of the new testament gospel message. Jesus (God incarnate) took the very burden of "death" that was reserved for all of us upon himself through his sacrifice on the cross.

Does that mean that the law is no longer valid? No, and in fact, homosexuality is still just as much a sin as it was in the old testament...same with lying or coveting your neighbor's new speedboat. The difference is that the punishment for these sins has been endured already by Jesus...now all we have to do to receive the free gift of grace, and be completely extricated from those consequences is to "believe in HIM and you will be saved."

Once we take this step of faith, a transformation begins to take place where we begin to understand that "the law" isn't about limiting us, but instead protecting us from the the things that in all reality do nothing but hurt us to begin with.

So you can see why the old testament law is still relevant...

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Lol Thats funny. But on a serious note, it really annoys me that these people are will to ignore the crap that is in the bible (thats why they have not answerd my questions) but anything that can stir up hate, then they are on it like a shot! And logic tells you they are using the bible as an excuse to hate things they already hate anyway.

Which "crap that is in the bible" are you referring to exactly? I am more than willing to answer your questions, and I promise not to stir up any hate!

Unless of course you view things such as sincerity and truth to be hateful. : )

What I don't understand is that Anjem Choudary and others like him can preach about homosexuals being stoned to death, yet a Christian..who has gay friends...gets hauled over the coals for telling folk what it says in the bible.

I don't agree with what you say, but will defend to death your right to say it, is my mantra.

We are heading for a 'Brave New World' society not just in the UK.

Well Jay

This is what happens. Someone decides they have a good idea/opinion/point of view. So they talk it over with their friends. If its deemed well liked the person with the idea keeps that idea. If they do not they modify their idea based on what their friends have had to say. How much they modify the idea will depend on how credible the friend is. So once the idea is honed to perfection it rests in the originators mind as complete. Later he may well wheel out this opinion idea etc for others to see. And again depending on the credibility of the audience in the originators eyes he will decide if he edits the idea.

Now this applies to almost everything. Almost. A notable exception being religion. And thats because we have a book, written by man, detailing the word of god and Jesus. Oh sure people may read the bible, but because it says a sentence about something, they read into it what they want.

Homosexuality is a sin. But love thy neighbour is also in there. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, another. So because the bible is soooo open to interpretation we have gods followers teaching the word.

Now here lies the problem. They are teachers of the word. A teacher is someone who by mere position of circumstance becomes placed above those who would listen. So they just through circumstance look up to that person for guidance. Now that person feels morally obliged to guide. To teach. They have to interpret what the word says. And then teach it to those who require it to be interpreted. So if we have a teacher in Hooks for instance he would teach according to the word of the bible, but tailored to his audience. He would have to. If they are scientists and theologians he teaches a certain way, if they are farmers another and if they are . . . not so bright, he has to teach it another way. Its life. It is unavoidable. But once that happens it becomes diluted. Diluted by the ability, opinion, and credibility of the one doing the teaching. And then these taught people, go home and do the same. And pretty soon the "word" may be sooo diluted as to have lost its original meaning. Now if you combine that, with a limited understanding of the world, you get zealot like beviour because you must listen you simply must listen to me because I KNOW i AM RIGHT.

And yet that zealot, who has limited life experience, lacks credibility with us who are more worldly wise, and their opinion seems brash, rude, basic. And a snap shot of these people can be seen all over TV, notably Brittains got talent, Americas got Talent/Xfactor etc . . . these people who walk on proud as punch, and are quite literally laughable, and yet they look totally dumbfounded when told they are crap.

These types of people, these limited less worldly people are surrounded by like minded people and so their talent seems real. Until it is exposed to a wider audience and they are forced brutally to listen to what is really going on, from people who have witnessed better things. Though they still seem dumbfounded, mostly they learn how bad they are, in time, with a bit of honesty. So I would say to anyone who thinks that they are literally worthy of condemning a whole person based on who they sleep with, are you really sure your opinion is a widely held belief. Are you totally sure, because I tell you now, you are that mutton headed wally on stage with a world laughing at your efforts if you think you are. Religion is not a fact, it is a faith. Its a choice. Its a book. There are many books, and each one is usually better than the last as more is learnt. Yours drags you backwards not forwards IMHO. Try reading a few more books and open up your world a little. Try asking yourself "my way of putting things, like calling people fags, is that what they would want". "because I think its ok to do that, does it make it right to do that, if they have said they dont like it".


I'm not credible enough in your small world tho am I - online here though - laughter

[edit on 5-5-2010 by Stormwind™]

reply to post by Jay-morris


I am a Christian and I do not hate anyone. I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but I do not go around judging people for what they do behind closed doors. That is not MY place! I do not believe that GOD hates gays anymore than I believe he hates all of us sinners. GOD is love. I accept everyone. I don't go around bashing people for their beliefs and it really bothers me that everyone on here is so quick to bash Christians.

The only thing that I have a problem with and (what I think Donkey Dean is saying about the media) is that the media portrays that anything goes and that it is sexy to be with both sexes. For impressionable young kids that is a bad thing. If you believe that watching smoking being portrayed as cool on tv can lead to children smoking, then you may understand where I am going with this. Its like "free love" all over again but this time with both sexes.

I know 12 - 13 year old girls that make out with other girls to impress boys. Anything that promotes promiscuity is a bad thing in my opinion. These girls aren't "going both ways" because that is "who they are". They are doing it to look cool. If you do not realize that this is going on, then you really need to open your eyes and read up on the subject.

You should also learn a thing about tolerance. I am tolerant of others beliefs but it seems like tolerance is thrown out the window when Chrsitians post on this site. No one can bash other religions or lifestyles on here without having their posts removed but you can say whatever you want about Christians and Christianity and it is totatlly acceptable. To me that is just sad.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

That said I feel I have an obligation to ensure my children do not think it’s ok to be gay just for the hell of it.

As if that was possible.

Shows your basic lack of understanding of what it is to be gay. No one is gay "for the hell of it". Truth is though, that lots of people do swing both ways, not for the hell of it, but because that is the way they are; nothing more, nothing less.

No one is gay for the hell of it huh? I heard that in Oklahoma the public school system had to rethink how they were presenting homosexuality. All over the state girls were banned from going to the bathroom at the same time due to sexual activity. I have gay family members by the way, my cousin who was my best friend growing up is a lesbian. That led to many gay friends over the years. I don’t care at all whatcha do, but if I can help it my children will raise families and bring many grandchildren into this world. If they do decide to live a gay lifestyle then I will be supportive of that.

What exactly did I say that set you off anyhow? That I don’t want my children to be gay just for the hell of it? Honestly I wouldn’t care so much if my daughter was gay, but my sons. Not if I can help it! I’m sorry if this has somehow made you feel dejected. I am not your father after all, I am sure he loves the fact that you are gay.





[edit on 5-5-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Afewloosescrews

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Lol Thats funny. But on a serious note, it really annoys me that these people are will to ignore the crap that is in the bible (thats why they have not answerd my questions) but anything that can stir up hate, then they are on it like a shot! And logic tells you they are using the bible as an excuse to hate things they already hate anyway.

Which "crap that is in the bible" are you referring to exactly? I am more than willing to answer your questions, and I promise not to stir up any hate!

Unless of course you view things such as sincerity and truth to be hateful. : )

Where do i start! The age of the eath, earth being flat, being center of the universe, adam an eve,evolution, i could go on. So, this peace loving God thinks being Gay is a sin! A person, who cant help there sexuality, is deemed a sinner by God! All powerfull God!. This is just stupid, and clearly a law made up by man, like all the stuff in the bible.

But i know, no matter what evidence comes up, no matter how conclusive, you are not gonna change people beliefs. We are a very primitive race