For all those smater than a "GOD" of any religion

Monotheism (single God worship/belief) in 2000 years may well be regarded the same as polytheism (multi deity worship/belief) is today, nothing more than a collection of myths, stories and fairy-tales! As mankind's learning and understanding progresses at the phenomenal rate that it is, the universe is giving us insights into the natural "creation" of stars, galaxies etc. Who knows what secrets another 2000 years will bring us?
If creation, in the future is proven to be a chemical/electrical reaction, resulting in the building blocks of life, without the need of a creator(God), then it will be proven that religion is nothing more than a perverse form of population control and an excuse, historically, for war and occupation!
On the other hand, if there is an individual creator, who is here to help and aid us in life, with supernatural powers, why so much death and hate and disability in this world!
I personally think that we are evolved from apes, which came from small mammals, which came from amphibians, which came from fish, which came from a sea slug...... when we get back to the first "organism", I think this is possibly the chemical/ electric reaction, you must remember there are many elements we don't even know exist, the periodic table is not final, We, the human race don't know everything, unfortunately only time will give us (human race) this answer, unless we destroy ourselves and our planet first, fighting over who's God is the "REAL" one.

Peace!

Look if people can not perceive exactly how big an idea "life" is. Billions of mutations over billions of years over billions of planets. Then that ok.

Some people cant get Algebra as well.( I am one of those people.) But it doesn't mean I tell those who can they are wrong. I do the smart thing and keep my mouth shut.

Nothing quite like broadcasting you have a limited IQ.

For myself, I think it is a natural thing to believe in a creator just because of how well ordered matter and physics behave. What do matter and physics behave to? They are following a program.
The key to believing this is by shedding the human veil of arrogance and self importance and not being so hardened by negative emotions... That has been my personal key to higher knowledge and understanding.

reply to post by UfoSpecial



Actually no, what you suggest is already existing perfection in which case " invention" would have no place in the world.

When I see you living outside with none of the luxuries afforded by people who constantly ask questions and not just "believe" , then I will consider you have real "faith". Until then you are all talk.

To the creationist here...

You can not go around knocking the " question everything" motto of scientists. But then happily live amongst the progress made by that mentality. Same if you believe we have a "destiny" but then use inventions and medication to keep you alive longer. All of that came from people much smarter than you.

Just like those who worked out Evolution.

Have some respect. .

reply to post by redseal


It's funny how those of a more religious minded nature are so quick to denounce and question a more naturalistic explanation to reality. How about you tell us how a God is capable of existing?

Out of the multitude of Gods worshiped on Earth throughout history, from old religions to new one's like monotheism, which is more correct on their account of where everything came from? What if an alien species more technologically advanced than us humans came and visited us and gave us their science showing a more naturalistic explanation? Or, what if they have a different concept of a creator?

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by UfoSpecial

 

Actually no, what you suggest is already existing perfection in which case " invention" would have no place in the world.

When I see you living outside with none of the luxuries afforded by people who constantly ask questions and not just "believe" , then I will consider you have real "faith". Until then you are all talk.

Yes, all talk, but only to you and to others who don't have any .beliefs.
people who believe like I do know exactly what I am talking about.
It is you who is out in dark, and you are there of your own free will.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
To the creationist here...

You can not go around knocking the " question everything" motto of scientists. But then happily live amongst the progress made by that mentality. Same if you believe we have a "destiny" but then use inventions and medication to keep you alive longer. All of that came from people much smarter than you.

Just like those who worked out Evolution.

Have some respect. .

Your arrogance is showing very strongly, and that is the exact thing I mention in my first post. It is this that will always keep you in the dark. You will believe you are so very important and knowledgeable. and that is the very thing causing your demise.
Drop that foolish pride and you will gain real enlightenment, not the false enlightenment you enjoy today.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Look if people can not perceive exactly how big an idea "life" is. Billions of mutations over billions of years over billions of planets. Then that ok.

Some people cant get Algebra as well.( I am one of those people.) But it doesn't mean I tell those who can they are wrong. I do the smart thing and keep my mouth shut.

Nothing quite like broadcasting you have a limited IQ.

But people DO have a limited IQ. Are you saying you have an unlimited one?
This is what causes so many otherwise decent scientists of history to put their foot in their mouth. Like "The earth is flat, and anyone who says it is not will be put to death as a heretic". My , my, look at that self rightousness they display. Or, "The sound barrier can never be broken"
These things were all said by people who had good educations of those times and were respected by their peers.
And what was the cause of this human ignorance? Self rightousness and self pride. It causes so much blindness and it is still causing blindness..
When people feel humility is when they gain better understanding.

Originally posted by UfoSpecial

The key to believing this is by shedding the human veil of arrogance and self importance and not being so hardened by negative emotions... That has been my personal key to higher knowledge and understanding.

While I don't believe in a supernatural creator, I don't deny the possibility exists.

Your advice is a good idea for us all, no matter what we believe. A bit inspiring for me, as I can be a little too hard on folks when I feel they are spewing out the doo doo.

I'm going to tone it down a little, perhaps I will cut out the violent intimidation. I just can't walk away without saying anything though.

Thx for your words UFO.

OP, Your question to me is the same as asking who thinks they are smarter than Santa, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fary. I feel much smarter than these imaginary figures, and those who might actually believe in them.

What really gets me is the believer who will admit to me that they have "DOUBT" about god, will not admit they are agnostic.

Good Day All!

God eludes the proud. He is real, but most people cannot perceive the infinite love of The Creator. Anyone who experiences God is then told they are crazy or liars or ignorant, and God is compared to Santa Clause or Invisible Pink Unicorns. What sort of open-mindedness is this? It is intellectual pride. Don't be fooled by those who say they are open-minded and then try to ridicule what they disbelieve. In their hearts they have made up their minds, but verbally they say they haven't.

That is my opinion of those who think they can perceive God through human intellect. Many "wise" people in society are foolish when it comes to knowing the divine.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by 547000]

reply to post by 547000


Your arrogance astounds me, what you have stated is utter tosh! For anyone to believe in a collection of stories, made up by man, selectively chosen to fulfill that organisation's agenda, to me is utter nonsense! The Bible and the Koran immediately spring to mind, where christians and catholics argue over the "true" meanings of the bible stories, as do opposing muslim organisations "interpret" the koran in different ways and kill each other because of it! Would a real God let people argue and kill each other, just because they disagree on an old book!

Peace

reply to post by redseal


So whenever you can't explain anything you claim God is involved?

Whenever we hit a roadblock when trying to explain something scientifically, there's 2 ways you can react to it.

1) Religious person: God!
2) Rational scientist: We just don't know right now. But we'll study it until we find out.

I don't know what's so hard in accepting that we don't know everything yet. Hundreds of years ago, the people (and church) thought the earth was flat, we proved them wrong. They said the sun turns around the earth, we proved them wrong. They still say the earth is only 5-6000 years old, we've proven them wrong, but it doesn't fit their agenda, so they won't accept facts.

Can't explain something? Here's a tip: Just accept it, and think about how you could find out. If it's not possible, think harder, or accept that simple fact that you just don't have enough knowledge to solve the puzzle yet. Much better than trying to make up an explanation by stating an invisible super being you have no proof of is responsible for everything

Originally posted by Myrddin Wyllt
reply to post by 547000

 

Your arrogance astounds me, what you have stated is utter tosh! For anyone to believe in a collection of stories, made up by man, selectively chosen to fulfill that organisation's agenda, to me is utter nonsense! The Bible and the Koran immediately spring to mind, where christians and catholics argue over the "true" meanings of the bible stories, as do opposing muslim organisations "interpret" the koran in different ways and kill each other because of it! Would a real God let people argue and kill each other, just because they disagree on an old book!

Peace

If there is free will, then, yes, God allows things to happen that He wouldn't like, otherwise there is no such thing as free will.

God is real because I have experienced His infinite love after praying to Him. Maybe if you weren't so proud and self-assured that it's all a fairy tale you could experience it too. Intellectual pride was the one thing that kept me from believing in God, but one day I said if He could only show me He existed I wouldn't deny Him and I meant it.

God eludes the wise and shows himself to the humble. It isn't a lie because I verified it for myself. Of course, the only way to discount such testimonies is to assume the people who state them are all liars, delusional, or ignorant. Which always happens.

Let me ask you this: if God only shows Himself personally, and you discount all testimonies of other people, and don't believe in that idea, how would you know if it was true or not? It's intellectual pride that prevents you from finding what you look for, at least with God. You cannot find him through our system of intellect, because it's foolishness to God. As smart as you are you won't find Him unless you absolve the ego, if only for a short while. Then of course the ego starts up again, like with me.

I do not claim to be egoless, but I have found God when I put aside my pride for a while. I generally find that when people say they're open to the idea that God may exist, they're really not, it's just lip service to look humble, but inwardly they believe it's all nonsense. Or why else would they compare God to Santa Clause? It's one thing to say you are open-minded but another to be open-minded.

reply to post by UfoSpecial

This is what causes so many otherwise decent scientists of history to put their foot in their mouth. Like "The earth is flat, and anyone who says it is not will be put to death as a heretic".

It's all fine and dandy that you both are moaning about limited IQ and what not, but I do feel a strong urge to point out an erroneous comment made by yourself.

This is what causes so many otherwise decent scientists of history to put their foot in their mouth. Like "The earth is flat, and anyone who says it is not will be put to death as a heretic".

Scientist said what now? No, your mistaken my friend. Religious beliefs deemed the world flat for thousands of years and a heretic scientist proved religion wrong, who was promptly punished for his great achievement. Well, that's if you go by the dark ages of Christianity version of science, a spherical world has been known about way back since the time of Ancient Greece. Scientists have known many thing's since ancient times that we once thought we were the first to discover.

I get that you may not like science and possibly don't understand how it works, but science has given the world everything it uses today. Religion has given us bigoted leaders who wage war over an imaginary deity and over who is more chosen than the next. A constant state of learning is not the problem my friend, it's the arrogant ignorance of wanting to be more important than someone else that is.

reply to post by 547000

If there is free will, then, yes, God allows things to happen that He wouldn't like, otherwise there is no such thing as free will.

Did you forget about the flood story or all of revelations?

so this thread really has nothing to do with the title, but......................

creation is happening right now.
like anything else, if you step back to look, admire, question, or control it......you lose it.
creation is like a quantum experiment that changes though observation.

the self.......this is something we are constantly trying to re-create though it is always changing. when looking at the "bigger picture" we often lose sight of what we could be really doing, which is.....

reply to post by 547000


"If there is free will, then, yes, God allows things to happen that He wouldn't like, otherwise there is no such thing as free will. "

Then God must be a sadist!

"God is real because I have experienced His infinite love after praying to Him."

Good for you!

"Maybe if you weren't so proud and self-assured that it's all a fairy tale you could experience it too."

well, let me tell you what i am, a PRINTER, a PRINTER OF BOOKS, just like the BIBLE, and every other religious text, written by man, invented by man, and manipulated, re written and changed by man over the centuries to benefit that religious groups purpose. I know how information/ text can and is manipulated to suit certain agendas, i see it every day, my boss once said to me "Don't believe anything you read...", winked and laughed, I know exactly what he meant... lol

"God eludes the wise and shows himself to the humble."

....and why would God do this? I thought that monks used to fast in order to see angels. Monks in centuries gone by used to among the wisest and humblest people in the country and did most of the writing of ancient documents, when most of the population were illiterate, yet even they had to starve themselves into hallucinagenic states to see "divine" manifestations!

"Let me ask you this: if God only shows Himself personally, and you discount all testimonies of other people, and don't believe in that idea, how would you know if it was true or not? It's intellectual pride that prevents you from finding what you look for, at least with God. You cannot find him through our system of intellect, because it's foolishness to God. As smart as you are you won't find Him unless you absolve the ego, if only for a short while. Then of course the ego starts up again, like with me. "

...... erm after reading the above statement, read it again for yourself, you are the one with an ego problem, not me! I am just like everyone else, wanting to know the answers, but I am prepared to say "we don't know....yet", not "God must have done it", blindly!

"I do not claim to be egoless, but I have found God when I put aside my pride for a while. I generally find that when people say they're open to the idea that God may exist, they're really not, it's just lip service to look humble, but inwardly they believe it's all nonsense. Or why else would they compare God to Santa Clause? It's one thing to say you are open-minded but another to be open-minded."

I am not open minded with regards to a creator, i just don't believe it..plain and simple. The South American Indians didn't believe in a Christian/Catholic God either, until it was Catholicism or death, history has proven time and time again to prove religion to be cruel! Look at the Child Abuse scandal with the Catholics/ Jehova Witnesses etc etc, daily multiple killings in the name of Allah..........I just can't believe it.

Just be nice to each other people...every day, the world will be a much nicer place to live.

Peace

reply to post by sirnex


God said he wouldn't flood the world again. Now did He?

Also, I don't believe God condemns good people to hell. Read Revelations again. It says that each were judged according to their works, they not written in the book of the Lamb. You only get what you give to others. How can God be righteous if his judgments are not righteous? How can God be loving if his judgments are not loving? Obviously He won't send good people to hell, like orthodox preachers preach, but will judge all according to their works, with full detail of every thought and intent and all things hidden from others.

If you have ever truly experienced God's love, you would realize people who speak in condemnation of others don't really know Him. There's no feeling like that in the world. It's our real home.

"Then God must be a sadist!"

Why would God be a sadist to allow His creations to have free will? Not having free will would be pretty sadistic to me.

"Good for you!"

Thank you!

"well, let me tell you what i am, a PRINTER, a PRINTER OF BOOKS, just like the BIBLE, and every other religious text, written by man, invented by man, and manipulated, re written and changed by man over the centuries to benefit that religious groups purpose. I know how information/ text can and is manipulated to suit certain agendas, i see it every day, my boss once said to me "Don't believe anything you read...", winked and laughed, I know exactly what he meant... lol"

God, unfortunately, is not just a figment of imagination of senile old people.

"....and why would God do this? I thought that monks used to fast in order to see angels. Monks in centuries gone by used to among the wisest and humblest people in the country and did most of the writing of ancient documents, when most of the population were illiterate, yet even they had to starve themselves into hallucinagenic states to see "divine" manifestations!"

I don't know why, I just know He does.

"...... erm after reading the above statement, read it again for yourself, you are the one with an ego problem, not me! I am just like everyone else, wanting to know the answers, but I am prepared to say "we don't know....yet", not "God must have done it", blindly!"

I'm not stating it blindly though. Gnosis is a liberator from blind faith.

"I am not open minded with regards to a creator, i just don't believe it..plain and simple. The South American Indians didn't believe in a Christian/Catholic God either, until it was Catholicism or death, history has proven time and time again to prove religion to be cruel! Look at the Child Abuse scandal with the Catholics/ Jehova Witnesses etc etc, daily multiple killings in the name of Allah..........I just can't believe it."

Religion is not cruel, people are.

"Just be nice to each other people...every day, the world will be a much nicer place to live."

I agree.

"Peace"

Peace to you too.

Edit: By the way, my original post was directed to the audience of this thread, those who are smarter than a God of any religion.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by 547000]